Can you be honest with me...

[Forthebest]

hello,
Thought I would ask an honest bunch a question as my friends are too biased.
Been with DH for over 15 years. Have 2 DC.
We aren't getting on at all. It really feels like we have broken down. There is no real communication and the rows are harsh and hurtful.

He was made redundant 5 years ago and time has just stayed still for him while I work fulltime for all of us.
He does some token housework, and cooks the evening meal ( to keep me from nagging - his words ) but I pay for everything, and deal with the girls 100% including taking them to school etc.

I think he is depressed. He makes NO effort to go to the GP though, even though I have asked and asked. he would rather sit on the p.c all day and night.

I am so resentful of our rubbish life, and have been for a good year that I feel like I have withdrawn totally. I dont, hug him or kiss him and I tend to " give in " to sex to avoid an argument. I know he must feel that.

He is now angry at me all the time as there is no affection ( sex !). he says I am cold and he has now also withdrawn. he keeps anti social hours, he will stay up till 3am then sleep in while me and the DC are at work/school.

Today was DC2 5th birthday. He stayed awake all night as he said he couldnt sleep. This was because of me and how angry he is with me. It meant that I opened all the presents, and cards with her while he SLEPT on the sofa in the same room and ignored her !!!!!!

We keep talking things over and over, and all we ever discuss is hoiw cold I am and how there is no affection. If I mention the reasons why he just brushes them aside.

Am I in the wrong ? I know its not nice to live with someone who is not very affectionate, but neither is it nice to live with someone who refuses to work, keeps antisocial hours and pays absolutely NO atention to their children except to tell them off !!

I really feel like its time to end this. We go round and round. I will be miserable without him but I know I could cope and this is hell !!he says all he wants is me but I want a family unit !! I want a future and Im not going to have it while I have to support him and keep him for the rest of his life ??

Any thoughts please ??

[Romanarama]

Get some legal advice asap - you may need to protect your assets and your income. Good luck, and I hope you find a relationship soon with someone who loves you and your children.

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

Morning Forthebest, how did last night go? Are you ok? I've been worrying about you.

[FabIsVeryHappy]

It seems to me you are miserable with him.

You are both in a vicious circle. If you both still have love for each other there is hope. If you can both remember how good things used to be there is hope. If you both want it to work there is hope. If not, you would be better off separating.

Wants just you? Not the kids?

[FabIsVeryHappy]

Take no notice of ILoveTiffany. "depression is just a buzz word." Heaven help you or yours if you or they suffer from it ILT. You are very good at throwing comments like this out, aren't you, ILT.

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

Fab is right that depression is real. But it does not mean that he is not responsible for his own actions. If he were seeking help and trying to get better for both his own benefit and his DW's then that would be a different situation. But he is happy (?) with how things are.

[Numberfour]

i second what Anyfucker says in her last post.

FTB, i hope you had a good night last night and that you are feeling strong today.

[ginnybag]

How did it go, FTB? Hope you're okay and your DD's birthday wasn't too bad.

None of the issue here (and I'm not trying to start a row, I swear!) is about the nature of depression and whether your husband is genuinely depressed or not. It's about whether or not, ill or not, his behaviour is acceptable in a husband and father.

And as we've all been saying (and will keep saying for as long as you need or want us to!) It isn'tIf he changes, if he makes an effort, then by all means give him another chance, but right at the moment, he's nothing but a dead weight and a harmful one at that.

[cestlavielife]

the issue is he is an adult - and only he has responsibility for his health. op has said he wont go to GP.

i have been thru this so many times with my exP - telling the GP, telling the family therapist in front of him - he is depressed can you help him.
they have all said no - he has to admit he has an issue and seek help.

family therapist told him to his face in front of me it is your depression and your repsonsibility"

even when in the pysch unit and then the day unit at hosp - all the feedback i got back was "he refuses to engage so we cannot help him"

tho now he uses the "i am depressed" mantra to try and get into the house, get out of cooking simple food for his kids, anytihng really. "but i am taking anti-depressants!" was the line used last night to my "you have a house and kitchen please try and prepare dinner for your children".

i know people who have had serious depression and who take anti-depressants - yes they have outbursts soemtimes (and have caused hurt...) but by and large they take repsonsibility for their illnesss and well being. they dont use "i am taking anti-depressants" ergo i am depressed as an excuse....

one couple the man himself told me "yes i took those anti-ds, my wife said either i took them and sought help or i was out,. it was the kick i needed". he took anti-d's sought help because he wanted to.

the op's H does not admit he needs help. he just wants op to take care of everything for him.

by making it clear he has to leave he may sort the help he needs. (or may not, as my exP, who wants to believe that he would be "better" if i took him back (regardless of my wishes) and refuses to undergo any kind of therapy. yes he takes anti-depressants but that is all...it isnt enough is it?

there are many people who take anti-Ds to help them function and who have the desire to better themselves and move forward. some choose not to. their choice. we are not obliged to "look after them" if they wont do something...

the op's H functions enough to choose to stay up late on PC, he can make it to school (tho late). so he can choose to do those things....how much is "mental illness" ? maybe some.

[Forthebest]

Hello all,
Thank you for your continued kind words.
DD had a lovely birthday and family ( his ) didnt leave till gone 10:30. After bathing and putting kids to bed I was exhausted so we didnt get a chance to speak really.

So, he rang me about an hour ago here at work I took the call on my mobile..

Basically he said that he is aware he is making me miserable and that he thinks I would be happier if he left. He said that trust is an issue with us and that is why he notices so much when we dont have any affection. He said that I am so miserable that he thinks its only a metter of time before I look elsewhere !! WTF ! I would NEVER do that.He said I barely come near him and that he had " purposely not come near me for three days to see if I would approach him ! !!!!!!!!!! When I didnt he knew he was right and that I just dont love him anymore.
The scary thing is that he is a little bit right and I felt soooo guilty and sad.
He said that his life is runined because of his health anyway so if he moves out he will have lost everything so might as well go and do something reckless to make money. ( rather then get a job I presume)
He freely admitted that it is highly unlikely getting a job will ever happen. I dont think I can make you happy he said.

When I mentioned sleeping through dc birthday he said that it wasnt intentional and that he was sorry. He said he had never asked me to keep them quiet in the monrings and I make him out to be worse then he is. NO, he hasnt asked me that IS true but I have been there when he has been woken !!

He said that we had broken everything and in his opinion it feels impossible to go back as everything is so damaged, friendship, trust and respect etc.

He sounded really sad and said that he had goven up everything to be with me and now his life is ruined.

Reading this back it sounds like he was using emotional blackmail. He kept saying " I think I should leave, what do YOU think, I feel like its damaged forever , what do YOU think " Its like he wants me to confirm it.
I feel really sad, much worse then I thought I would be. Whether its true or not he really BELIEVES he is ill and that his life is ruined. Its THAT that gets me everytime. I DO feel sorry for him.

He said that if he moves out it will be forever as its not fair on the dc's to be coming and going.

Im not sure now. It all seems really sad. I AM unhappy he is right. I just wish he were different, I wish he would change, but he's not going to is he ?

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

Forthebest he is trying to emotionally blackmail you into sex and I am appalled

Of course you don't want sex with him!

If he won't go to a GP then agree with him and let him move out.

Please.

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

Of course a job won't happen, you have to go and look for them they don't fall from the sky

Of course everything is hopeless and will be forever, to get better he would have to go to a GP or start self-treating with exercise or similar

Of course you love him less, he is not the man you married and has no consideration for you or the DCs

Of course you don't want to sleep with him, you work hard all day, look after the DCs, watch him mope about and then surprise surprise you are not overcome with lust at the end of the day

This won't get better while he wallows in self-pity and drags you all down with him.

Only he can help himself.

[Babieseverywhere]

He has been honest with you, he has told you directly that he will not change, he has not intention of getting a job or seeking medical treatment and he misses sex.

It is up to you to use that information in the best way for you and your children.

Are you happy for things to continue as they are, knowing things will never change ?

[ginnybag]

I'm afraid not.

And, from an outside perspective, you're right - this is emotional blackmail.

It's a sob story... 'my health is ruined, I'll have lost everything, you're going to leave me, I gave up everything to be with you...'

Blah, blah, blah. Me, me, me...

It's just tinged with enough of what you need to hear (I know i'm making you miserable etc) that it plays on all the old feelings you have for him.

And, who cares if he 'purposely hasn't come near you' for three days? That's proof of nothing except you being busy!

The real corker is the one at the end 'If I leave, it'll be forever, because it's not fair to the children...'

In that one sentence, he's made you responsible for your marriage ending, because you'll now have to be the one to say go. You'll have to be the one to say, no, children, Daddy doesn't live here anymore. It's classic.

It really is.

It's designed to make you feel confused and divided and upset.

He isn't going to change. Nowhere in that conversation did he say anything about anything chnaging. In fact, he freely admits that it won't.

But if you buy this story now, then you're accepting that and justifying him continuing exactly as he has been.

Everything is the same as it was yesterday. It's still up to you to decide if you can carry on living like this, I'm afraid.

We're here, whatever you choose.

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

FTB, if he's anything like my DH at his lowest then he honestly believes what he is saying. That's why it's so convincing. Now my DH is on ADs he looks back at the utter load of toss he was spouting and can't believe it; but he really really did believe everything he said.

I remember one memorable moment, it was just after ds2 had heard him shouting at me and came in, in tears to be comforted, and when things had settled I told DH that I was off to pack him a bag and that he was leaving within the hour. DH said to me, "I'm really worried about you YKNOTC, I don't think you've considered what me moving out will do to the children. This isn't like you at all. You're so sad, how can I leave you like that?"

He was gone within the hour and I felt a weight lift immediately. I actually spent the following day dancing around the house.

IT was only when he left that I realised I was always watching my behaviour and keeping out of his way if something was brewing. Being able to go into every room without a care in the world was an oddity.

Sorry, that went off on a bit of a tangent

[Forthebest]

I am so confused. I agree with everything you have all said. Im not happy, Im not happy being the sole provider in our family, im not happy having no social life or indeed LIFE to speak of.

I know that if I just brush it all under the carpet I am allowing it to continue and this will just all come up again.

A little bit of me wonders if breaking up is the right thing ? What if I get lonely and miss him, what if the kids react badly ? Will I be alone forever etc, all the pathetic thoughts that you have when you panic.

Will I be happy like this forever though and Also if Im really not happy I should let HIM go shouldnt I, so he can meet someone else I guess ?

Its funny that the ONLY thing he has to complain about in our relationship is the lack of sex ! I could make a list !

[Monty100]

He's turning this round to you. Making statements and then asking 'What do YOU think?' He wants you to say it so you can take responsibility for his failure in the marriage. Also, he has told you that things are not going to change.

Here's what I would have said:

'I think you are right, go now.'

[FabIsVeryHappy]

He isn't the only man in the world and it sounds to me you are lonely in a marriage anyway. Your kids will be fine. At the moment they are learning how a relationship can be and it isn't great.

[Monty100]

FTB - I seriously think you would be better off without him.

[Undercovamutha]

FTB - what really jumped out at me from the conversation you had with him was the fact that he takes no responsibility for the problems, and mentions nothing about any changes to improve the situation (apart from sex ). If he had promised to change or said he knew it was his fault, then I would still have advised you to be wary, but to me this now seems like the end of the line. Its just sad that he is making you be the bad guy (but that seems to be his style from what I understand).
The fact that you say 'I should let HIM go shouldnt I, so he can meet someone else I guess', just outlines to me that you have given so much of yourself to this man (and got so little back) that you are now incapable of putting yourself first.

[YouKnowNothingoftheCrunch]

FTB imagine your DD came to you in 20 years time and told you that her relationship was just like yours; what would you say to her?

Now, here's the tough bit, we learn about relationships from our parents; she is learning what a relationship is (all give by the woman and all take by the man) from the two of you. Staying in the situation you are currently in is making it much more likely that your DD will have these issues.

You know you are unhappy here and now.

You suspect you might be unhappy alone, but you might also be happy alone or in the future with someone else.

In one scenario you will definitely be unhappy, in the other there is the possibility of happiness.

You cannot make him better, you have no control over that, so you are left with a choice - and it is a truly crappy choice - stay and hope he magically gets better, or go and see what happens.

You can do this. And since you already do everything a single parent does, but with him as an added burden, it will be easier. It really will.

[expatinscotland]

FTB, get him out.

He's an adult in charge of his own health and life.

Instead he blames everything on you. So he's manipulative as well.

Please, pack his bags.

[abedelia]

Forthebest - the level of self-pity in what he is saying is astonishing. And he dares to moan about lack of sex? Why the hell would you find him attractive, let alone have the energy after supporting the whole family day in day out? He won't meet someone else, btw - you have to leave the house for that, unless he can persuade someone on the internet to do home visits to his mum's...

In time, if he changes, breaking up may not be the right thing and if so you can invite him back on your terms. But at the moment you are caught in a circle of misery, tiptoeing around this sad sack of a man. He really does need an incentive to change rather than dragging your family down. And if you do miss him, just get a really needy and morose dog - maybe a bloodhound? It will eat less than him and won't whine as much.

Sorry - I don't meant to be flippant but you cannot go on like this, you sound so unhappy.

[expatinscotland]

oh, and btw, there's nothing wrong with his health that he can't fix.

it's not like he's got metastatic, stage 4 cancer.

imagine how less stressed you'll feel with him not nagging you for sex.

[morningpaper]

This whole thread is so shocking

FTB I am so sorry for you

I know that doesn't help

You sound so lovely and wonderful and brave and you have been dealt a crappy hand here

Would give you hug but that's not v. manly

xxx

[JustAnotherManicMummy]

FTB is it possible he found your print out or has read this thread? I get the feeling his is playing with you. All in a very self-pitying fashion.

Try picturing your life in 5 years time. What would you want to see? What memories would you want your children to be making?

Then picture your life in 5 years time if your DH doesn't make a positive change. What do you see then?

The problem is him - so he needs to demonstrate what he's doing to fix things. This is not your responsibility. You've done your bit - now it's his turn and you need to get tough.

If you feel you must make one last ditch effort you could ask him to leave for a fixed amount of time - say 2 weeks. He will be allowed to return at the end of that period if he fulfils the following conditions:

1. He goes to see the GP.

1. He registers at the job centre.

1. He agrees to go to counselling.

However, I think you've already done enough and I would urge you to please put your and your family's happiness first. He is not worthy of the effort you make towards him.

FWIW I lived with a man who spent any spare time on his own on the computer, insisted every transaction on the joint account was explained (even £10), did no cleaning, cooking or shopping - although he did have a job. He offerred no emotional support during a really difficult time and used to critise everything I did saying I did "nothing". I spent about 6 months making excuses for him "I'm stressed at work, so it's work that's the real problem, not him" "Thing's will be better by Christmas/my birthday/December" "I just need to make more effort". All bull shit!

Best thing I ever did was leave him. He was completely surprised, such was his ego. Shortly afterwards I met DH who is the opposite. He can't do enough to help, works really hard and looks after us all. Ex thinks DH is a mug "for giving in to you". Ex, for example, is a twat. DH has a very happy marriage, family and home life. Ex has... none of that.