DIL problems - or am I a terrible MIL?

[DistraughtMIL]

Have name-changed for this, just in case... and it's going to be long.

I have two young adult sons. Neither are actually married so I suppose DIL/MIL is slightly misleading, and I apologise for that, but it's a form of shorthand for the relationships.

DS2 and his GF (GF2) made me a granny earlier this year, and they're wonderful parents. I adore their DD; they spend about half the week here and half the week at GF2's mum's house, and would love to get their own place but they can't afford to just yet. I get on very well with this GF, really like and admire her.

The problem is with the GF of DS1 (GF1). They also spend some time here and some at her house, but she has a difficult background which includes abandonment, and DV with a previous BF. This has led to chronic low self-esteem and associated self-harming behaviour, including bulimia. (I am not unsympathetic, and she has discussed these issues with me. I am willing, and have offered, to support her in whatever therapy she wishes to seek, but she hasn't/won't got/get help, and she hasn't opened up to me in over 18 months.)

DS1 and his GF would also like to have their own place and can't afford it, but rather than accepting it, DS1 constantly clashes with his dad (my DH, we are still together), in what looks to me like a territorial battle. I think of it as "antler-clashing;" his attitude towards me is quite different. DS1 and his GF have been together longer than DS2 and his GF, but we're talking years in both cases, not months or weeks. All parties were teenagers when they got together, DS2 still is.

DH and I recently went away for a few days, and to our disappointment came back to both DSs complaining about each other. DS1 seems to have wanted to be the "man of the house" and adopted a rather bossy attitude, which naturally raised the hackles of DS2. GF1 also seems to have assumed a "superior" role to which she isn't really entitled, and has pissed-off DS2 and his GF (mildly) in so doing.

Things have only got worse since we returned, and came to a head a few days ago when DS1 (very bravely) wanted to talk to us about our relationship with his GF. I will admit that I didn't handle it well, but I didn't actually say any of the less-than-charitable things I thought. I did, however, take an early bath and went to bed, because I was furious and wanted/needed the space to calm down, and think seriously about what was/is going on.

Apparently, GF1 feels that we're not giving her enough attention, when our DGD gets lots. She actually flounced out of the house a few days ago over the issue; apparently (oooh, can you tell how I feel about that behaviour? ) we had failed to say "Hello" when she arrived because we were playing with DGD at the time. To put it in context, we do usually (and I did, on that occasion, though DH didn't) acknowledge her presence but it's difficult to have a conversation with her, so usually it's "Hi GF2!" to which she replies "Hi" and then goes upstairs to DS1's room.

I did calm down before I flounced off to bed the night of The Conversation, and said to DS1 that I'm willing to make compromises, but that GF1 needs to make them too; and if she wants to have a conversation it helps if she responds to conversational overtures. For example, I knew she'd had hospital (outpatient) treatment recently, and when she got back from it I asked her how it had gone. She said "Fine" and went upstairs.

So, darling MNers, if you've read this far - I do want to have a good relationship with GF1. She's likely to be the mother of my future DGC, and I'd like that relationship to go well. But, tbh, she's difficult, and while I'm willing to make compromises that doesn't mean that she/DS1 get to dictate how I live, or how I behave in my own home.

I'm not a naturally chatty, outgoing person anyway, and find it easier with GF2 because she is.

But both GF1 and I are awkward - obviously, it's my house and more to the point, I'm the older woman, so I should be more understanding/willing to compromise. How do I achieve this?

wow ginnybag all the things I wanted to say but couldn't put down so eloquently. Well done!

Hi, as a mother of two (still very little!) boys I hope I'm as lovely a mil when they're older as you sound like you are!

I just wanted to suggest that you contact the national eating disorders charity BEAT - www.b-eat.co.uk. They have a telephone helpline and it would probably be helpful for you to talk it through with them. They are really experienced in eating disorders and may be able to give you insight into what your son's GF may be going through.

Bulimia can be totally all-consuming and, as someone else said, often goes hand-in-hand with depression. Basically your body chemicals are in a complete mess, you're starving most of the time, and acting "normally" can be pretty much impossible. It it also really really difficult to ask for help for this if you don't feel ready so please understand that seeking help is a major deal. Bulimia (or any kind of ED) is a coping mechanism and the thought of having to do without that coping mechanism can be unthinkable.

I know I have focussed on the ED here but that is what I know and I know the effect they have.

Good luck.

at being called eloquent...

And here I was just hoping it didn't sound like utter babble...

I'm just hoping it helps!

I also think you are a saint for having all those people living under one roof - but tbh I agree with Anna that I always find it a little odd when adults are still living at home with their parents. In my day we couldn't wait to leave!

Regardless of differing personalties, etc, the one thing you don't really say is how you feel about your grown-up sons still living at home - and how you would feel if they still are in say 5 years time...

I think you and your dh need to sit down and talk about how you see your family set-up in the medium to long-term. Would you be happy if they are still living with you with perhaps several gcs by then?

You say they would love to have a place of their own but I do wonder if perhaps they are only prepared to move out once they are in a position to buy somewhere "nice" and that could take a v. long time.... Are they actually doing anything about moving out, eg saving for a deposit or looking at renting? Or are they enjoying being subsidised by their parents and having lots of disposable income as a result? Or is there some reason you haven't mentioned why they can't support themselves?

Obviously you care about them and wouldn't want to see them living in poverty but it doesn't actually hurt young adults to go off and rent somewhere themselves or with friends and experience the realities of paying their own way...

I do appreciate however that I may feel differently when my own dcs are adults!

I would agree with what some of the posters have said in that you are taking an awful lot of this on yourself to sort out. I think the house problem is centred on your DSs' sorting their rivalry out, and moving out would be the easiest solution. I think GF1's bulimia is another problem entirely, and not yours to fix, although that is at the crux of your relationship with her. IMHO you would be much better placed talking to DS1 about what he is doing to help GF1. He needs to take his head out of the sand and help her take responsibility for sorting her issues out. The b-eat website has some useful info for people trying to support sufferers

The nature of bulimia means one is super-secretive (I was bulimic for 9 years - god, only just worked that out - and the only people who knew were the ones I told, XDP and DH. I never got 'rumbled' as far as I know.) That GF1 told you herself that she has bulimia is a massive, massive thing and very brave of her. You must be important to her for her to share that with you. But assuming you have only known her since she has been bulimic, what you have seen of her is probably more her illness than her true personality. Since I have kicked the habit I'm myself again, much happier and much more confident, so I will do things like say "hello" first rather than assume I'm being ignored (because when you don't like yourself it is easy to assume no-one else will either. And yes, now I am 'better' I do recognise that not saying hello first and taking umbrage at such things is ridiculous, petty and rude, but at the time it doesn't feel like that. It is an illness. You don't think logically. If you did, would you spend half your life with your fingers down your throat?)

It rankles a bit to hear people describe her as "damaged", which implies a permanence to the problem, writing her off with a label. You can get through bulimia. Although equally you can live with it for years, although god knows what it will do to her bones, teeth, heart etc etc. There are a lot of health problems caused by bulimia in addition to fertility issues. The sooner she can get it sorted the better.

If DS1 loves her, he needs to help her deal with it, as it is unlikely she'll get through it on her own. On the other hand, he's not a trained professional and he doesn't want to get out of his depth and into a toxic relationship with her. But he could possibly do some research and see what the options for treatment are, counselling or whatever and then maybe they could take it from there? If she doesn't want to go to the GP, you can pay for things like hypnotherapy, so then it's not on your medical records (which may or may not be a good thing. Mine is on my record, sort of, so I have to declare it forever on life insurance etc. The GP I went to was rubbish though, gave me 1 pack of Prozac and left me to it.) If he can support her through it, you can provide support for him as I imagine it will be tough on him too.

Anyway, if they're talking about babies, then it is doubly important he deals with the issue. I'd been clear for about 3 years when I got pregnant and it was only because I managed to put DD's health above everything else that I managed not to relapse, but it was really HARD watching the scales go up and changing shape. GF1 will need a heck of a lot of support, and probably careful watching by DS1, if she's going to cope with the changes to her body that pregnancy brings. On a cheerier note, I did get pregnant first attempt which I was so, so happy about as my periods had stopped for about 18 months when my eating was at its worst. But I think DS1 and GF1 need to acknowledge that it would be madness to even try for babies until she has sorted this out. Who knows, the baby could be the motivation she needs to fix herself? But she does need to fix things before throwing the baby into the mix. Another thing for DS1 to consider is if he has a DD then she will pick up on her mother's attitudes to food and GF1 may find that her daughter then ends up equally screwed up about food by following that example.

I think if GF1 can sort out her bulimia, and the issues underlying it, then she'll be much less touchy and hopefully her relationships with everyone, including you, will be much happier.

I think you sound like a great MIL, btw. . And sorry this is so long!

Yes regarding the baby issue for your ds1 and his gf - I am slightly that they would be actively trying to have a baby now when they are apparently not able to support themselves financially without your help.... and agree they really need to sort out the gf's health issues first...

Contacting BEAT is a great idea. Eating disorders are all-consuming as Iloveautumn has said and they change personality as well. For those who never have had one it might seem just an insignificant disorder while in reality it can totally take over sufferer's life and affect every single area of it. Irrational behaviour and impulsiveness are also quite common.

GF1 does sound damaged but nothing is beyond repair. She is obviously hurting a lot inside. I am not saying you are supposed to be the one who's gonna 'save' her - noone has the power to save her if she doesn't seek help herself. But since it seems like she's going to stay in your life as DS1's girlfriend and possibly a mother for your DGCs it is worth trying to understand what she is going through as not to deepen the rift by saying insensitive things such as commenting on her eating patterns or similar.

I agree with Bonsoir. Nobody here is being unreasonable - it's the situation that's unreasonable.

People who can't afford to leave home don't normally have kids, and when they do, well they have to suck it up as far as I can see.

My mum would have been like 'this is my house, go and live somewhere you like better if you don't like it here'.

Ultimately, you're not actually helping your kids by treating them as children when they have adult responsibilities.

Your sons are still quite young, and may well both be with other women in a few years. Just step back. Be polite and caring, but don't take on our DILs issues and problems as your own.

Boys tend to leave home later than girls becuase their mums still baby them, while girls tend to want independence from a young age. Those DILs want independence but they can't have it as lodgers with another woman.

I see this as their problem and not yours tbh.

Thank you again, everyone - I've read everything you've said and take it all on board, and I think ginnybag, in particular, has got it right. I'd just like to point out though, that DS1 and GF1 are not actively trying for a baby. Though GF1 would love to be married and settled in their own place, with a family, DS1 wants (quite rightly, I think) to have a full-time job and some sort of security before taking on such responsibility. (He has put a lot of time and effort into seeking such work, but so far has failed at interview. ) Atm, he's working odd shifts here and there, with no guarantee of income, and he'll probably earn less over the next few months because it's outdoor work in the main. GF1 is a student and not working, and she lives with an ailing elderly relative. She doesn't want to move out "officially" until the relative is, well, dead, I suppose, or maybe in a care home, in case she has a fall or some kind of crisis and is left alone for a prolonged period of time.

They have looked into renting but decided they just can't afford it; they do pay a fair proportion of the rent here, but it's not a huge sum of money because the rent for the whole house is cheap. (Big house, hard to heat, unsuitable for a young family because of outdoor factors, landlords don't want it to be a House of Multiple Occupation.)

As for the living arrangements, it's a big house with big rooms. DH and I sleep downstairs in what could be a public room (but we still have a big livingroom, too, with plenty of seating) and there are two large bedrooms upstairs, with a smaller one down the corridor from DS2's room. It makes perfect sense to put the baby in there and that's what's going to happen regardless of whether DS1's nose is put out of joint. I do understand why DS1 wants it as a recreational room (reasons I need not go into here ) but it's a case of tough luck, mate. There's also a shower room upstairs and bathroom downstairs, and afaiac housework from the foot of the stairs upwards is their domain. I rarely set foot upstairs, tbh.

GF1's medical issues are complex; as well as the bulimia (and ED services in this area are outstandingly crap, as I discovered when supporting a friend through severe anorexia) she has endometriosis and polycystic ovaries, all of which may complicate ttc, and I'm sure there's an element of envy that DS2 and GF2 produced a baby relatively easily. GF1 and GF2 are pretty much the same age; DS2 is a toyboy.

As many of you have said, I need to sit down with GF1 and have a proper talk. Reassure her that she's welcome and a member of the family, but point out that DS2, GF2 and their baby need more support atm than GF1 and DS1. I honestly can't think of anything GF1 and I have in common, other than being a bit socially awkward - I loathe girly shopping trips and make up and so on, while she enjoys looking out for new nail polish or hairstyles, I'm into politics while she only ever reads Fabulous magazine - the one that comes with NotW on a Sunday. I am ashamed to admit that the last animated conversation I had with her was essentially a bitching session about another young woman we both know.

Not really the basis for a relatioship lol!

However, we're both adult women and should be able to work a way round this. Thank you all for your support and kind words, I have to go get ready for work now. (Yes, I do work odd hours...)

I think I remember you posting before about their lack of contribution to the housework.

I think MorrisZapp has hit the nail on the head. This situation is ultimately disempowering your adult children- you would actually be parenting them better by facilitating them to leave the nest. I too worry that you have over-extended your household.

Tbh, the ED side of things is a red herring- you are not the woman's mother or therapist, it's up to her to get help for it or not. I would be mortified, personally, to have a MIL in possession of the details of my gynaecological problems. This whole living on top of each other thing is fostering distorted and over-blurred boundaries, and is doing nobody any good. I think you need to have a think about it all and have a sit-down meeting where you work out how you are all going to move forward. Even your second son and his girlfriend would benefit from the space to be parents without your support and supervision. Most of us managed, afterall. It goes with the territory of being an adult.

Well, call me old fashioned, but I didn't dare to consider living together with someone until we both were able to afford it.

I understand the need of DS2 to live with you considering the size of his responsibilities and having a child. But I can't understand DS1, he can not simply assume the parents need to sleep in a "public room" because he and GF want to live together. You do it, when you can afford it, unless the circumstances force you into a difficult situation (as it has been the case with DS2).

Agree with all what have been said about pecking orders, etc. and also, can't agree more with what someone said about you are helping them better by helping them to fly the nest than by providing for them.

I honestly don't understand why you have all these people living with you if they are not bending over backwards to make your life easier.

If they don't like the way you arrange your rooms/greet them etc, then being adults they have the choice to move out. I think they are all taking the piss to some extent, though some more than others.

Biobytes - you're old fashioned .

You and me both .

I agree. If I had to live with my MIL I would be doing everything in my power to make her happy because she was kind enough to let me live with her son under her roof. (Which as a very religious woman she would NOT have done until we were married )

I hope this works out for you, it sounds like a rough situation to be in.

If your kids are old enough for serious sexual relationships they are old enough to leave home. Get them out and renting, this sounds like a silly situation.

Have you all been living in that house for years, Distraught, were the boys brought up there?

Yes, wukter, we've been here for years. And it's not that DH and I "have" to sleep in a public room, we chose to! It's a lovely big room with a working fireplace, and we leapt at the chance. I can't honestly think how we'd use it any other way.

The GFs don't live here full-time, just 3 - 4 days/nights a week. Only the boys officially live here. And they are all looking into getting their own places, but there's no point in them living off the public purse (and they would have to get some sort of benefits to afford to move out) when they don't have to.

Anyway, update; GF1 and I have both been making more of an effort to be nice to each other today, and things are thawing. It'll be a long slog, but I think we'll get there. Thanks again to all of you who have taken the time and the effort to help me.