Am I being a cow to feel this way? (long)

[AintNobodysBusinessIfIDo]

I have name-changed just in case something gets back to someone...

My SIL (DH's sis) is in her late 50s and hasn't been able to have children, though she desperately wanted to. There are lots of other significant ways in which her life hasn't worked out for her, and she lives alone in a small village not a million miles away from us.

When I first gave birth to my DD, my DH asked me to let SIL look after DD from time to time because she doesn't have kids of her own. At the time I felt uncomfortable about this because (1) I didn't quite know what he was asking of me - it sounded almost as if I was being asked to 'share' my child; (2) I felt as though there was subtle (though unintended) pressure from somewhere but couldn't quite put my finger on it. I was, understandably, caught up with looking after my new child and my new role as a mother, so I ignored these feelings, and have let SIL have days out with DD. However, sincen day 1 I have observed a sort of possessiveness from SIL towards DD. I thought that perhaps I was imagining it, until two friends separately confirmed that they had noticed the same thing as well.

In addition to this SIL has tried to accuse me of maltreating her emotionally, in a number of ways. To cut things short, she was describing someone else, not me - which has been verified by my close friends and DH. It is quite clear that her accusations are all about her feelings about the 'failures' in her own life, but that she needs to deal with them properly, not try to push the blame onto someone else. At the time I wish I'd said this more explicitly, but you can hardly say: 'You're just saying that because you haven't got children and I have', now, can you?

Anyway since that big blow-up, she thinks everything is resolved (because I failed to stand up for myself fully - bloody fool that I am), whereas I am finding it really difficult to see her. I feel resentful towards her and paranoid about any communication with her because she misinterprets stuff at the drop of a hat. I haven't stopped her from seeing DD, and would never try to, but I just am not happy to be around her at the mo. I am expecting another DD in a few weeks and she's already started talking about taking both of the children 'to give me a break' - she always talks about wanting to give me a break, rather than talking about her own needs. Now I do not doubt that she genuinely does want to help me, but I would also like her to be honest about her own feelings so that we can operate on an open footing. I don't expect that it will ever be easy to balance this relationship, but until we start talking honestly I think it will always be much more strained than it needs to be.

Oh, and another part of the problem is that she pulls up the defences big time when you try to talk about stuff that affects her (when you start to speak she bulldozes over you with verbal diarrhoea - like saying 'nuh nuh nuh I can't hear you'). So even though I know we need to talk, how the hell can we?

What is it you actually want her to say "let me look after your children so i can pretend they are mine?"

No-one looks after someones else's children without getting something from it.

I know that there seems to be other things going on here, but would you feel the same if she was your sister? My sister had to come to terms with the fact that she would never have children, and was helped by her very close relationship with mine. And yes, to some extent she was "sharing" them, but I was happy for her to do so.

Heavens your husband was so wrong to ask you to do this imo.

To include her in birthdays etc, fine, but to let her look after her children because she can´t have them?

That to me is like permission from him to pretend that they are hers.

I'm not sure what you want from her...?

She is unlikely to ever say: 'I am devastated I have no children of my own and I am very grateful that you let me look after yours...and yes, sometimes I am also jealous of you and wish your kids were my kids' etc etc. It's all far too complex and probably painful...and private. There is really no need for her to be open with you or anyone about her innermost feelings if she doesn't want to be.

If she is rude towards you or acts weirdly, then by all means tackle her on those issues. But I don't think you can expect her to talk about private, tricky issues.

didn't youpost about this a while back?

Agree with MrsMattie. Isn't it enough that you know about her motives, and unless she is very unaware, she probably knows that you know? Deal with the rudeness, assert boundaries, but I don't think it's necessary for her to lay herself bare to you. Let her have her pride.

I see what you're saying. However, when she first blew up at me she said that she wanted to have an open, honest relationship where we could talk about 'these things', but in practice that seems, from her perspective, to mean open and honest on her terms.

What do I want from her? I want her to be honest with herself about what's going on inside. I have already explicity said to her that I don't expect her to reveal her innermost pain to me, that I think she should find people of her own who she should do that to. But she is hiding away from this - understandably - and it's affecting me. So no, it's not enough that I know about her motives - I was able to put up with it until she decided to try and blame me for her unhappiness.

Yes, I seem to remember a similar thread a few months ago, but I'm not sure that was you.

I agree with MrsMattie

I might be missing something here but where is the harm in letting her have a close relationship with your dd and so what if she 'pretends' they are hers sometimes.
Of course she's not just having them to give you a break, its for her benefit too, but maybe looking after dd helps to take her mind off the fact that she will never have dc of her own. None of us can imagine how that feels.
I think you should be more compassionate. She isn't trying to 'steal' your dc or hurt them and they will only benefit from having such a doting aunt.
You sound a bit insecure tbh. Sorry

Ginny, it's not about her relationship with my DD, I've already covered that in my posts. It's about her relationship with me.

Lots of woman find it too hard to deal with other woman when they are pg especially let alone when they ahve children. How can she expect you to ever understand how she feels.

What do you want from her?

I've read your post a couple of times and I'm not still sure what it is exactly you want from her (apart from her to be honest with herself - which to be frank, is a bit of a bloody tall order IMO. We all tell ourselves lies all the time) and how it affects you. I found your paragraph about the big row a bit confusing.

From what I can gather, you're being a bit harsh and trying to steam roller your SIL into being what you want her to be. I probably wouldn't want to confide in someone who I sensed felt about me the way you seem to feel about her.

Looking back at all the posts I do understand if you're finding it hard to get at the nub of this issue - it's not surprising as I think I am too.

However I have already said explicitly that I do not want her to confide in me - in my post of 12.28. Surely that much is clear now?

The whole reason why I asked in the thread heading 'Am I being a cow' is because of course I appreciate that it's a sensitive area for my SIL, that's why I didn't raise the issue of her childlessness with her in the first place. I've already said here that I understand why she would avoid facing her hurts.

whoisasking - I think you're right about it being a tall order to ask her to be honest with herself, though tbh I wouldn't expect that she would do it if I told her that's what I think she needs - it's the horse to water thing, which I accept. Though to be fair she did make exactly this demand of me when she made her accusations, and I at least did spend a lot of time considering them and seeking others' opinions. So I suppose I feel that if she has demanded this of me, I should at least be entitled to tell her more honestly what I think the cause of the problem really is. Then it's up to her whether she acts on that information or not.

So perhaps what it all boils down to is the fact that I am wishing I had just said what I wanted to say to her in the first place, rather than holding back so as not to hurt her (it's not just about having children btw, that's the root cause of one of several problems which she raised but I mentioned it here because it's the most difficult one for me to broach with her).

I'm beginning to think that it's too complex to convey this stuff online so maybe we should just leave it.

I know you've said you don't want her to confide in you but you conversely say that you want your conversations to be open and honest. Maybe my use of the word "confide" was clumsy, I guess what I mean is that if you are trying to open up a conversation with someone and they say "lalalala sticking my fingers in my ears" I would pretty much take that as.."I do not want to discuss this with you"

I think you need to try and let it lie in the best interests of the rest of your family, Your DH and your DD. I appreciate the frustration when dealing with people that you would not choose to deal with, but such is marital life. If this issue (Mysterious as it is!) arises again, then you may be in a position to try and deal with the situation then. It might be for the best that you haven't confronted her with anything.

Okay, I can see why that would be confusing! The 'openness and honesty' doesn't mean I want her to go as far as her baring her soul to me, it just means that I want to be able to be honest (in a sensitive way) with her about the stuff that is delicate but having a huge impact on our relationship. Sometimes I wish I were the sort of bolshy person that would just tell people to f*** off when they annoy me - it would make life so much simpler, even if it meant living in a bubble!

I have been hoping for a looong time now that the issue would arise again, so far it hasn't and yet of course my feelings haven't changed, they've just become stronger. That's why I decided to seek opinions on MN.

As far as the issue of 'pretending that my kids are hers' is concerned - actually that does make a difference to me, as she can be rather abrasively critical at times of the way that we're bringing up DD. Until recently I didn't see it within the context of her own issues, so I've not confronted her about it before. But now I think it's all tied together. I think she needs to find an outlet for herself, something she can do to fulfill the part of her that wanted to be a mother. But I think she needs to do that herself rather than creating further strain on our relationship.

I can definitely see where you are coming from OP. You've hit the nail on the head already - until you can stand up for yourself with this SIL and make your feelings plain, you will never have a good relationship.

You can't force her to open up, but you can and MUST talk about your own state of mind. Tell her how you feel when she acts like a child and puts her hands over her ears. She doesn't have the exclusive on feelings!! When she talks about giving you a break, why not say "well that's very kind of you but actually I don't need a break at the moment, I'm still settling into my routine [with new dd or whatever]".

I don't understand any of this.

Can you say what it is that you feel annoyed with your SIL about?

What was your argument about?

The next time she is being critical can you think of a sensitive but succint retort? I think you are very right to challenge her unacceptable behaviour if that is what is occuring.

I really don't know but something like "I find that offensive I'd appreciate it if you kept your thoughts to yourself?" Can't think of a nicer way of saying that but there probably is.

I'm sorry but I still don't get it.
What has she done that is so wrong?

Yes your being a cow - unless she overstepts the boundaries with your DD's into parental rights ie cutting hair - ear pericing etc or other wierd stuff get over yourself. Your complex ruminations are needless.

have you thought that maybe you have blown the earlier 'incident' out of proportion? Maybe you have read it wrong all along? the only way you will know is if it either does arise again or you ask her outright.

I say this because a few years ago i had a huge falling out with my SIL i took a long time to come to terms with - it turned out i had said something that she took offense at and never said anything. I had no idea what i had said but it was really silly and a total misunderstanding.

it is odd that you have resentment for her though.

Thanks, Endangered Species! It's such a delicate situation and tbh I think if she hadn't raised those accusations things would have carried on as before, with me ignoring the stuff she did that irritated me.

HappyWoman - we had lots of loooong discussions during which she made lots of accusations and refused to listen to my suggestions that perhaps she was bringing her own issues into her interpretations. It was unequivocally clear that she wanted to dictate the terms of the relationship. So, definitely not out of proportion.

FWIW, one of the comments my friends made about her behaviour with my DD was "AintNobodys, I thought you were DD's mother, not your SIL, or is that not the case?"

Arwen - perhaps we have a different approach to life. Some people ruminate because they are able to see the complexities of life. Some don't. I don't know which you are, but I am definitely the former, but with a good balanced head to see when to stop contemplating.

CarGirl - good suggestion, I think I will do that next time.

I have been reading this thread with interest and some bemusement over the last couple of days. However, having just read your last comment to Arwen I am finally confirmed in my original hunch that you are someone with quite a high opinion of yourself, that was such a dismissive thing to say to Arwen that I think you must be a very hard person to know/be around. I pity your SIL.

Tinykins, it's very easy to read between the lines when you're just reading words on a screen, all the more so when you don't know the person who's writing. We all make that mistake from time to time, perhaps more often than we realise. Depending on what tone of voice/ expression, etc, you're imagining as you're reading, you can potentially interpret a person's words completely wrongly.

Looking back at my statement to Arwen I can see how you would draw that conclusion, but I'm afraid it's the wrong conclusion.