Am I being a cow to feel this way? (long)

[AintNobodysBusinessIfIDo]

I have name-changed just in case something gets back to someone...

My SIL (DH's sis) is in her late 50s and hasn't been able to have children, though she desperately wanted to. There are lots of other significant ways in which her life hasn't worked out for her, and she lives alone in a small village not a million miles away from us.

When I first gave birth to my DD, my DH asked me to let SIL look after DD from time to time because she doesn't have kids of her own. At the time I felt uncomfortable about this because (1) I didn't quite know what he was asking of me - it sounded almost as if I was being asked to 'share' my child; (2) I felt as though there was subtle (though unintended) pressure from somewhere but couldn't quite put my finger on it. I was, understandably, caught up with looking after my new child and my new role as a mother, so I ignored these feelings, and have let SIL have days out with DD. However, sincen day 1 I have observed a sort of possessiveness from SIL towards DD. I thought that perhaps I was imagining it, until two friends separately confirmed that they had noticed the same thing as well.

In addition to this SIL has tried to accuse me of maltreating her emotionally, in a number of ways. To cut things short, she was describing someone else, not me - which has been verified by my close friends and DH. It is quite clear that her accusations are all about her feelings about the 'failures' in her own life, but that she needs to deal with them properly, not try to push the blame onto someone else. At the time I wish I'd said this more explicitly, but you can hardly say: 'You're just saying that because you haven't got children and I have', now, can you?

Anyway since that big blow-up, she thinks everything is resolved (because I failed to stand up for myself fully - bloody fool that I am), whereas I am finding it really difficult to see her. I feel resentful towards her and paranoid about any communication with her because she misinterprets stuff at the drop of a hat. I haven't stopped her from seeing DD, and would never try to, but I just am not happy to be around her at the mo. I am expecting another DD in a few weeks and she's already started talking about taking both of the children 'to give me a break' - she always talks about wanting to give me a break, rather than talking about her own needs. Now I do not doubt that she genuinely does want to help me, but I would also like her to be honest about her own feelings so that we can operate on an open footing. I don't expect that it will ever be easy to balance this relationship, but until we start talking honestly I think it will always be much more strained than it needs to be.

Oh, and another part of the problem is that she pulls up the defences big time when you try to talk about stuff that affects her (when you start to speak she bulldozes over you with verbal diarrhoea - like saying 'nuh nuh nuh I can't hear you'). So even though I know we need to talk, how the hell can we?

OP - your name says a lot about you.

Seeing your self as complex with a deeper thought process than others, is very often just an excuse for self justification of our own character flaws and control issues. sometimes a sign of PND -

Your posts are verbose and over complicating a simple issue of your unkindness.

most of the posters donn't even know what your going on about - hardly the sign of a clear thought process.

Arwen, you've just proven my point about reading too much into words on a screen. My name came from a song I heard on the morning I posted my OP. The song was going round my mind - an earworm. You can read a whole lot of stuff into that if you like, or you can just say it was a song that was going round my head.

I've already said on this thread that I appreciate that my posts on this thread are unclear. But perhaps you could tell me what I've done that's 'unkind', apart from feel hurt at being falsely accused and not having stood up for myself? Is that what you mean?

As for the 'deeper thought process than others' - yes, everyone processes the world in different ways, what's wrong with admitting that? There are plenty of people who process the world in far more complexity than I do, whose intellect is far higher than mine, I have no problem with that.

I didn't say I was complex, I said I see complexity in life. That's a different thing altogether. But again you misinterpreted me.

OP - you seem to be asking us for permission to withdraw from future contact with your SIL, although you say you want her to maintain contact with your DCs?

Perhaps you need to talk to your DH about this, as he will probably have a lot clearer idea what you are talking about than we can ascertain on a forum. Maybe you should ask your DH to handle dealings with SIL in future, so that you can take a back seat and avoid some of the difficulties you are experiencing (whatever their exact nature may be).

You see complexity ergo you are complex - of course we are reading more into your words on the screen - you have not put simple irrefutable facts. The fact we are not reading in what you want us to read, is your problem of sloppy over complex self postulation, not our problem of lack of understanding.

I would say your choice of name was subliminal lol

I meant to add, that your SIL may be feeling sad, humiliated, worthless and any of the other hugely complex emotions that face women with fertility issues. In her position, I would feel terribly torn dealing with a woman who is trying to force me to confide in her (when I want to tell her to leave the issue alone) knowing that she has the power to prevent me seeing the children I adore being around.

Piprabbit has explained the ''unkindness'' bit much better than i could

Pip, I've already said several times that I told her explicitly that I don't want her to confide in me. And I'm sure she does feel all those things you said about being infertile. It's an incredibly complext thing which affects people for their entire lives, and I couldn't imagine what it must be like to have to wrestle with that. As for withdrawing from contact - well, actually DH and I did have a similar discussion to your suggestion. Following our lengthy discussions I was hurting a lot and felt that I needed to take a back step from being around her, hoping that would help me to sort out the way I feel on my own.

It's pretty hard to withdraw as much as I feel I need, as she still comes round to spend time with DD and since I work p/t I'm always around the house when she comes. So I'm trying to limit contact but it's not easy!

I think it's unlikely that she'd see me as someone who has the power to prevent her seeing my DCs, only because I've always openly welcomed her doing so, and have done my best to hide the way I feel at the moment. I still invite her to join us for meals and stuff - we've always included her in our lives because of her loneliness, and I don't want that to stop just because there's an uncomfortable thing between us.

Arwen, FWIW, though you probably won't accept it, I'll try and explain myself better. Seeing oneself as a complex person is different from seeing the complexities in life. I have met people who describe themselves as 'complex personalities' and I always wonder what they mean - perhaps I should ask them next time. I also know people who try to avoid or dismiss aspects of life which they don't understand/ can't cope with - e.g. my friend who finds it hard to understand people who are intellectually different from him (he would say 'beneath' him), so rather than trying to understand them he writes them all off as 'morons'. That is a classic example of someone failing to see the complexities in life.

As for subliminal name - as subliminal as a random song on the radio can be. Read what you like into that.

Now I don't know your SIL, so can only comment on the situation as seen from your POV, but your OP sounds very, well, superior and shows not a scrap of empathy towards your SIL. And perhaps I'm as mistaken as everyone else who has suggested that your attitude isn't reasonable, but you chose the words that you used to describe her and her situation, and I hthink they are quite telling. Of course, your SIL might well be unreasonable in her dealings with you. but my comment on your attitude would still be vaild IMO.

What you tell your SIL (that you don't want her to confide in you) may not be what your SIL is actually hearing.It seems clear from your post that you want something from her - although I'm not clear what. I assume that she is bright enough to pick up on this undercurrent.

She must also aware that you are patronising her for both her infertility and loneliness. Just because she accepts the crumbs you throw her way, doesn't mean that she has to be filled with overwhelming gratitude.

Perhaps the thing you want from her is more gratitude for being allowed to share a little of your lives?

Piprabbit, I am astonished by how much you are letting your imagination fill in the gaps.

Firstly, yes, it was clear to my SIL that I was saying I didn't want her to confide in me. It's people on this thread who are not seeing that.

Secondly, as for what I want of her, I have already said on this thread that what I want is to be able to tell her honestly that I am not responsible for the sadness in her life. The only thing that requires her to do is to listen to me, which I have done to her, for hours at a time. That's it. That's all I want.

Thirdly - "patronising her infertility and loneliness"??? Where did you get that from? She came to us in floods of tears about how lonely and unfulfilled she feels, and asked us to help. We readily offered to involve her in our lives, which we have done for a number of years. Are you suggesting that we should have told her to fuck off instead??

I'm going to bed now.

But why do you need to force your SIL to sit down and listen, so you can tell that her problems aren't your fault?

Is there something you've not been telling us? Why do you think your SIL blames you?

Because she falsely accused me of a number of things which were extremely hurtful. I know those accusations were false because I asked for the honest opinions of about 5 close friends who've known me for years; one of those people was my DH who is pretty much always there when she's around, so he's seen the way I treat her. He confirmed (having known her all her life) that my suspicions about her using me as a scapegoat are correct.

I gave her hours of my time (at a time when I really didn't have that time to give) to allow her to talk about this stuff with me, and during that convo I tried to suggest that perhaps it wasn't me that was causing the problem but deeper problems in her life. She refused to hear this because she wanted to blame me. I thought I could let this go, but I'm finding it hard. So that's why I'm hurting now and trying to find a good way to deal with it. Is that so unreasonable?

i'm trying not to be too nosey here, but what was it she accused you of..this may help others undersatnd you better..for what its worth i've read all of this thread and feel some people may be giving you a hard time for no good reason!

why dont you try writing her a letter if you feel you cant talk to her or she wont listen. have you got on in the past? If it was me i would want to get on with my sil no matter what as she is and will be a big part of my childrens life.

That makes a bit more sens to me now - and I think you are right to make the decision to step back.

My sister does not have children, I have no idea why she is a very private person. She adores mine and takes a huge interest in them. TBH she does sometimes overstep the mark and has caused some discomfort all round! BUT my children love her and she loves them. I don't ever ask her to explain why she is frequently off with me, although I know she has a pretty low opinion of my parenting abilities! She is the way she is, I am the way I am and overall I am really pleased she is in my life and that of my children.

Hmmm...that sounds preachy! I was just trying to say that sometimes life works better if you don't over-analyse and just get on with it! I can appreciate you seem to feel hurt but my guess is her hurt is more than yours...I am pretty sure my sister would really really like to have children. She can borrow mine - and we all win. Especially the children!

I wonder if it would help you to take a step back and stop worrying about what she thinks, I don't mean stop caring about her, just stop worrying about what she thinks. I hope that sort of makes sense and is a little helpful?

PS my eldest is fifteen, and so this live and let live has developed over a long while!

This thread is totally pointless unless you tell us what exactly your SIL has done wrong.

What did she falsely accuse you of?

The reason why we are all speculating, filling in the gaps etc is that you have given us lots of words and very few facts to go on.

If I was standing in front of you, holding out a large G&T and asking you in a very friendly way why you don't like your SIL, what would be your exact words?

'Because she....'

What?

so if she made it clear that she wanted to take control and you at the time where not happy (but did not say anything)? Are you now 'blaming' yourself for not saying something.

Why cant you say it now?

It obviously is very important to you - it seems to be consuming a lot of your time and you do seem upset by it. So why not just come out and tell her what she did wrong. Then she at least has a chance to explain appologise or decide to back out of your lives.

I remember the most hurtful thing for me was that i really had no idea i had actually upset my SIL - i tend to say what is on my mind without thinking too much - she took every tiny detail of what i had said and thought i was saying it about her. It was years later (after a lot of lost time) and she asked me outright and told me why she had been so off with me - i was very very shocked that my words had been taken out of context by her and that she had held it against me for so long.

Be honest with her and give her the chance to put it right instead of having what appears to be an underlying resentment towards her.