What to do about angry, stressed DP? (sorry if bit long)

[hanabanana]

wanted to name change but MN not accepting new registrations today for some reason - don't out me if you know who I am.

I need tactics to cope with DPs anger. He is basically a wonderful person but always had an angry side - massive temper moments/blazing rows (shouting, hitting walls, throwing stuff around, storming out, slamming doors etc) always been present in him. It's much worse now we basically exist in a pressure cooker - have own business together in office which is part of our house, 2 DCs under 2, rural area with friends basically in London, etc. Work stresses him out a lot, he feels under masses of pressure at the moment and often says he wishes he wasn't doing what he does, but stopping isn't an option for the next year or 2 for various reasons.

He once said he would go to anger management sessions but went back on it after a huge row and now refuses to even consider it again. He says he doesn't really have a problem but the rest of the world is basically all to blame. He flies into a rage at the slightest thing and I'm not the kind of person to let him get away with being unreasonable, particularly when he gets angry at innocent others (usually unwitting mistakes by work people being a bit useless) and I just end up lecturing him which he obviously hates and then gets even angrier. But if DD1 is rude or has a tantrum, we don't let her get away with it, we try to explain why she shouldn't do that, so why is it OK for him?

I do believe that people can try to rationalise and control themselves and if they can't they should seek help, but he doesn't see it that way at all. But it makes me so miserable as it ruins what should be a really happy relationship.

I've always believed in talking things through to resolve them but he never wants to talk, when angry he just wants to be 'left alone' and somehow magically they are meant to clear up by themselves which I find infuriating as I really don't get over things unless I feel there's a genuine attempt to see where things went wrong.

I need a better way to deal with this - ideas please??

Really sorry hanabanana but I agree with others who think you're (in a nice way) kidding yourself.

If he flies into rages then refuses to a) talk about it at the time or b) talk about it later, then he has a massive problem.

If he yells rage at you and a select group of people he feels safe to yell at but can miraculously control himself in front of DCs, other clients etc then he is just using you and some others as an emotional punchbag.

I agree with the poster who said that you both need counselling - good luck to him trying to persuade somebody that it is your own fault that he reacts to your every minor irritation with rage and door slamming. He'd be embarrassed to say such a thing out loud, I'd have thought.

He knows he's in the wrong but is happy to let you carry him. Stop trying to change yourself in order to dance around his moods - make him confront his appalling behaviour instead.

Oh Hana - you are so not ready to face the facts here - that isn't a criticism - it's an observation and it is a very common thing for women in your situation. It's too scary to face up to the reality of what is happening, even to admit it to yourself is too scarey at present I reckon. So whilst you are "hearing" what everyone is saying it isn't "reaching" you - indeed it may be scaring you even more. You are totally minimising the problem and blaming yourself - even talking of you being "too controlling" - unless there is a lot you aren't saying, it certainly doesn't come across like that. I think you feel it is important for you to come across as an assertive woman who "won't put up with this this sort of thing" but that I'm afraid does not appear to be the case.

You did however post on here so that was a first step but a lot of your posts seem to be rationalising the situation and pointing out all your H's good points and blaming yourself. You don't have to do anything about it at all, you can of course carry on the way you are, or maybe the time is not right for you just now. I think for many woman the "seed gets planted" so to speak and then over time, the anxieties increase and eventually they are ready to take action. I think however until you are ready to admit to yourself the reality of the situation, you are somewhat stuck.

I do think however that getting some support for yourself would be a good thing and finding a good counsellor would be a first step. I am assuming you can pay, so I would google "British Association of Psycotherapists/counsellors" to find one in your area. You could try Relate but I suspect there is a waiting list - and yes GPs can refer but I think there is a waiting list. Expect to pay around £50 - £90 per hour for a counsellor dependent on where you live.

Please don't think I am being critical of you I'm really not, it's just I think you are slightly deluding yourself at present, though counselling might help to "unstick" you, though what is really needed is for both of you to access counselling.

Slowly but surely, your relationship is becoming all about him - you say you would like to cry and bury your head but you can't, whereas he feels entitled to display his feelings and act on them in front of you whenever he likes. So all your behaviour and thought processes are about managing his feelings, and whatever your own feelings are, you are having to treat them as unimportant, because he is not interested in your feelings.

My DP has a bad temper and this is the way I'm (learning to) deal with it:

Don't respond to his rants and ravings at all. No expressions, no words. Anything can wind up people like this when they're 'on one'. I find this very difficult because I find his behaviour so appalling I - ironically - want to scream at him! But I stay very quiet, blank-faced and/or leave the room because I know nothing good will come of me responding to his anger. I just don't pander to it at all. I act like he doesn't exist to me and won't exist to me until he becomes more reasonable.

Then later I will tell him how his behaviour makes me feel and the ramifications of it. When he is feeling 'softer' and I approach the situation with the same softness, it's amazing what an effective conversation we can have. If I manage to do this - and I'm no saint, he can bring out the worst in me if I allow myself - then things do get better.

It's difficult because people like this continue to behave in this way for as long as they are 'allowed' to and I worry that that everything but leaving them is a form of acceptance. I don't think anybody with a temper problem ever really gets rid of that inclination but you can control it in healthy ways, if you're prepared to put the effort in.

I got the impression that when OP approached her DP after he had calmed down to discuss it, he said she was 'having a go at him' and went off on another one.

The point for OP is that her DP doesn't think he has a problem, he thinks he'd be ok if only the world wasn't against him.

Very good point from SGB about how the whole relationship is to serve the OPs DP and his feelings, and not the OP's.

Hey guys - perhaps I'm not yet at the point where I can 'face facts' but that's something that a counsellor can help clarify. Though not sure where I will find the money!

I am not blaming myself for the way he acts. I know it is totally wrong no matter what and want him to change that which will be slow and hard for both of us. I just also need to find ways in the shorter term to not make a small flare up worse for both of us as too often something relatively minor ends up in a screaming match with all the accompanying unpleasantness and hurt. So thanks Thisxgirl for your thoughts. His underlying temper does need to be addressed (I think he would come for counselling if I started and he saw it wasn't actually all that awful) but the stress etc can't be helping so I would like to find a way to persuade him that the world's future doesn't in fact rest on whether he meets all his deadlines. If anyone has any ideas!

I really appreciate everyone's concern and this has made me think about lots of things, but I don't think that this situation has reached total impasse yet and I do strongly believe that we both care enough about each other, and our family, and the excitement of what we can do together.

Just to clear up some points:

he is not controlling of me in any way - he positively encourages me to travel, see friends, go out clubbing till 3am at 8 months pregnant and generally do absolutely whatever I like while he babysits (before you ask...I do the same for him!). Its just at the mo we are so snowed under with work that neither of us have time.

He is emphatically not sexist - I am die hard lefty liberal feminist so would spot that a mile off - he is literally surrounded with women at work and home so there are no other targets. When he worked elsewhere he used to get angry with male colleagues (in fact he generally finds men more useless and therefore rage-provoking than women).

He doesn't 'bully' our employee, he snaps and occasionally shouts but it is enough that she worries a lot about pleasing him so of course wrong. She actually called him sweet today so I don't think there are tribunals in the offing.

I really do appreciate everyone's support and will think about everything you have said.

The only thing that I had was my gut feelings.
I knew something wasn't right. I felt like I was walking on eggshells.
I tried to do things the way he seemed to want, not to argue with him, to try and keep the kids from stressing him.
In the end, I realised that I just could not keep up with all the things that seemed to set him off.
We had (have) many stresses in our lives, but at a basic level, everyone has stresses in their lives. Not everyone rages like our dhs. I realised that I was making excuses for him.
It was abuse, plain and simple. And no, he wasn't battering us but he was still abusing us.

It is simply not normal at all, and you must know deep down that something is seriously wrong.
Think about it - how would your mother (or some other loved one) react if she was a fly on the wall when he goes off on one?
Would she be worried for you?
Would you be worried if a daughter of yours was experiencing this?

As for relate - don't go there as a couple. I did with my DH and it was a nightmare.
Things get twisted and taken out of context.
Couple counselling is not recommended for couples in abusive relationships. And honestly you are living in an abusive relationship.
The cupboard thing sounds exactly like something DH could have come up with. There are endless variants of these sorts of excuses for atrocious behaviour. I'm sure if you thought about it you could come up with lots more.
btw - I'm a bolshy feminist in real life. Nobody would know how things are/were at home. It creeps up on you and you end up thinking that it must be acceptable to put up with this rubbish, and worse you even find many reasons for why you yourself are to blame. That's all part of it.

honestly dittany it was no help to me, I was so far away from imagining that 'I' might actually be being abused.
I believed some stereotype version of an abused woman, which to me had always included some substantial elements of physical abuse. I had no concept of emotional or verbal abuse. Neither did I make a connection between him breaking things/punching walls in my presence, and that this was threatening/abusive behaviour.
It was only when I heard him threaten our son that I was able to make this connection.
To be honest I think I had been in survival mode for a while .

OK, I'm going to stop posting on this thread now b/c I think people are taking things out of all proportion. From the start I have said that there are many wonderful things about my DP and somehow, very few people have bothered to pay attention to that despite my listing several of them. He should be up for parent of the year award, for starters. How many of you have DPs who since week 1 of your newborn's life have taken exactly 50/50 responsibility for everything, and never stopped doing that for more than a week? I mean literally everything bar breastfeeding - food, sleep, nappies, looking after while I worked and popped across to b/f every 3 hours, pickups, dropoffs, clothes buying, endless entertainment...and done this for 2 kids in 2 years while they had a job themselves?

None of you are not a fly on the wall in my office or my home, and people have made some massive assumptions about stuff. I don't even know what the 'cupboard' thing is that someone referred to. There is no way that anything I can write will convince those of you who think I am being seriously abused that things may not be that serious, because you are convinced I am in denial. With the greatest respect, I think perhaps the person to tell me that is a counsellor with whom I have spent many hours in conversation - I am totally open to them saying that things are more serious than they think, but that's their call as professionals (I hope) not scapegoaters.

I feel more 'bullied' into thinking that I'm being abused, than I do by my DP. As this is the first time I've posted something personal not kid-related on MN it has been quite an eye-opener how quickly people seize on the negative, and fail to raise constructive, practical solutions (though thank you to those who did). If anything it has made me realise that compared to some people's experiences, what I go through is - significant and wrong, yes, but nothing like what it might be.

So thanks folks, and g'night...

The cupboard bit was my fault, apologies as I was mixing your posts with anothers.
I'm really sorry hanabanana for upsetting you, but I just saw so many similarities between what you have described and how my own situation was.

I can also understand your defensiveness as I too was in denial for a good while. But once the seeds of doubt had been set, I spent some time reading up on verbal and emotional abuse. It helped me enormously. My dh is going to counselling now (as am I) and there have been big improvements. I feel stronger armed with some information about what are the signs that someone, who has acted abusively, is actually making progress. Likewise I am dealing with my own self-esteem issues.
For me anger management was never going to be an option. I didn't just want him to find ways to control his aggression, while still thinking the same way about how his family deserved to be treated.
Everything was about him. About all the crap he had to put up with, how things were difficult for him because of other peoples stupidity etc etc.
On the other hand, he ticked all the boxes for being a great dad. Took children out by himself, learnt how to change nappies before me, did the evening routine every night, cooked vats of food for them at the weekends. Childcare 50:50 while I was working. Was my rock during the birth of our last child at home. Took me a while to get my head around it as I said.
Anyway good luck, and hopefully your gp should be able to point you in the direction of a good counsellor.

Hana many of us can identity with the "but he is wonderful" bit. we persuaded ourselves for a long time that the good bits made up for the bad....

then when we finally left - i am sure many of us met with the friends and family who said : "what took you so long?"

you posted about an angry and stressed man - who has always been like this. raging, shouting breaking things. that is not "wonderful" - and the wonderful bits dont justify or make up for the raging bits. he is responsible for his behaviour - you are not. he has serious issues he needs to address. you are allowing yourself and your children (and the employees) to carry on experiencing these behaviours.... you cannto change them for him - but you can make sure you not around for them.

he can be told - you want to be angry/smash things - your choice: but not in my house. not in front of the kids, not to employees. if you do, you live elsewhere. til you learn to deal with it.

read the first review of lundy bancroft book -

"Controlling and abusive behavior can be quite confusing as well as infuriating, as abusers tend to use a large repertoire of manipulative tactics such as lying, projection, blackmail, denying being angry, and putting on a "Mr. Wonderful" act to the outside world, etc"
www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=12 58712533&sr=8-1

mr wonderful is also for our benefit too...

i do hope you go to counselling and yes a good professional will guide you towards making the right decision for you.

good luck....

Hana, I hesitate to tell someone she is being abused, because I know that I read other people's posts in light of my own experience. So, avoiding the word "abuse", let me just say that (as you know) this is not a good dynamic.

Your H indulges in behaviour that makes you feel uncomfortable/scared/unhappy.

He refuses to accept that there is a need for change.

Somehow it seems to be up to you to "fix" it.

You need to make it clear to him that it's his problem, and he needs to fix it. In your shoes, I'd be inclined to issue an ultimatum that he stops this now, or he loses his family. His choice.

Newname, what you said about being a strong feminist who never expected this to happen to her exactly describes me. My inner compass seemed to go totally hayware for a while. So strange, in retrospect.

Hi Hana

Newname got confused between my post 'feel so low' and yours as we're in quite a similar situation - dh self employed, has wonderful traits, brilliant dad, living in a pressure cooker, explosive temper etc.

What your post has proved to me even more though is that there just is no excuse for this behaviour. My DH abuses me because he is self employed and stressed and I am a full time SAHM because we have no money to afford childcare, which makes me a really easy target for blaming failings on.

You are clearly working just as hard as your DH to make your family business a success and no doubt can feel just as stressed as him at times and yet he is intimidating you with violent behaviour while you are trapped in the cycle of excusing it.

What it shows me is that my abuse is not really related to me being a bit disorganised sometimes and having no career. It's all about DH. I could be super super organised, have a glittering career bringing in lots of money, paid for child support......all the trappings basically - and yet one of the DC could fall over in a new pair of shoes I'd just bought them - gash their knee open or whatever and I would NEVER hear the end of it. Never. He has an issue with blame and accountability and it is stifling, demeaning and confusing.

Since posting here recently I have been projecting 10, 20 years into my future and it really frightens me. But then I've been living with real abuse for a good 5 years now.

Hana It's hard to face the truth sometimes and I understand how you feel about feeling bullied on here into leaving him. There were some harsh thoughts put to me in my post as well, but if anything, the advice I got and the books and websites I was directed to have given me a much clearer view of what I'm going through, that I have reached the point of 'enough is enough', that DH needs to know that he is behaving unacceptably and if he wants us to stay together that he needs to change, not me.

We shall see - but just take strength from the posts here instead of seeing them as attacks. They're not. They're just proverbial kicks up the arse to help you change things

Loving kicks up the arse

maybe 'Encouragement' would have been better

ok its nearly christmas ....and the year has been heading toward being over .... how bout ...forgive me ...looking on the things that are good ...ah like you have so many times in your threads ......and head toward a new ..begining.

Sometimes this helps to flicka switch personally . Working from home sounded like the key issue and is never easy ...consider where the work goes on in the property and if it is out in another building this may just pass for ok ...but when someong can move from the office to the kitchen bringing all that macho stomp and pomp with them they dont have a place to stop ...if you are wife mother secretary sales manager and accountant ..you are getting the blast for all these roles and you are not a another bloke...or work mate.

everyone agrees that he shouldnt treat anyone badly ..but my primary concern is that it doesnt go on in the home ..

make new rules for your self ...no work mail in the kitchen ..i am only doing this and this job ..make him employ someone he needs to help him and oversee that it is someone who would enable him to benefit from the new company ..a bloke that speaks his language and who would allow him to see how you and the children are different..

happy new year ahead ..." ok ..i am not doing this right now ...we have some things to plan for that are more fun than that stuff that has been going on all year ...and ...when shall we have wrap night ?..i want the pressys mainly done by then so we can relax "

mmm modern control...

Can i just say i am so pleased and impressed that you got so much chat and advice and help on this site with a problem that is so common ...but the truth is, i feel, the caring and sweet guy that doesnt need to rant is out there and he is not demanding misery from his family ...ooh love huh..

i always feel when i see this, that is about maturity ..and intelligence ..and not all that can be changed. That people can be good parents but dont know how to be good adults could be true ....you can ask teenager to watch some children for you at a picnic and find they did a good job..they could read a bed time story and even put some supper together ...but hey they cannot solve economic world issues or show the type of kindness and patience that grows after twenty five years...of growing up !!!

sometimes you have to consider what people are capable of at any one time and changethat can happen ..may not actually happen very quickly ..its the old ."..just another child in the family" problem.

This is just another thing to add and I don't really know much about abuse. Seems to me that your DP, hana, is actually really unhappy/insecure. I feel sorry for him (trying not to patronise here). Nobody behaves like that unless they are boiling up inside with years of frustration and misery. Does he want to go through the rest of his life like that? I am guessing he has had some bad times/issues in the past?

Is there anything you can do to lighten the pressure in your "boilerhouse" - get builders in, turn down some work - honestly your relationship is too high a price to pay.

Probably counselling/therapy for him and for you as a couple would help but you are sort of right, you need to create some "space to think" first. Obviously he has to buy into it too.

The other thing that comes to mind is about you being firm on your boundaries - I read some book about this I'm sure - effectively you "let" him behave as he wants but you will not let the employee, children or yourself suffer by it. Maybe someone else can explain better.

maybe to re-enter the fray..

I think tamm and blithe - yes you are both right. He is really unhappy. He talks about being driven to an early grave by the stress and his reactions to it - and he is absolutely terrified of dying. In many ways it is all self-destructiveness on his part it is just that it has such a horrible impact on me. That's why I know he would never hit me - all the violence seems to be, in some weird way, directed against himself. He will call himself a c*. He says he wants to give up everything and just look after the girls all day.

There is very little that can realistically be lightened right now in the pressure cooker but I have told him that I am going to seek counselling and I think that is the first step to sorting out what I really think. The worst is not being able to sit down with him and talk calmly and honestly because he just can't contemplate the idea - too stressed, too tired, too angry, too numb - all excuses in some ways but people have to be ready for something - leading a horse and all that. I'm afraid I don't believe ultimatums are fair - I think they can be useful for some people but not us.

tamm I think this is all so common - to greater and lesser degrees - and where the line is between 'abuse' and 'a bad temper' surely can't be clearly drawn. That's not to excuse the extreme end at all. so I am grateful for so many MN thoughts.

Good luck Hana. Hope it all gets sorted for you as you sound very understanding and supportive