Its still not that bad...

[notaloud]

...I have posted on here many times under various different names. I had to stop for a while as Dh found lots of my posts, terrible things about my deepest darkest thoughts, and it has taken me a long time to work up the courgage to come back.

I suspect that things weren;t right from the start. Little things. Mainly just very bad arguments where things got flung (by him) and there was lots of name calling, door slamming, a need for me to always be the one to apologise.

And it has mainly stayed this way. Only over the 13 years I have learnt to keep quiet. Countering the arguments always made them worse. Although I know it also makes things worse to keep quiet I feel that this is much better than arguing back. I have turned myself into a dorrmat during these times. I should have stood up for myself but now it seems too late.

His mum jokes about when he was a young boy, he would have his "red rages" where he would get so worked up that he turned bright red. I should have taken note.

I progressed with the relationship because most of the time he was and is a lovely guy. More one for the grand guesture than the every day stuff, but thats ok.

I have sufferend from depression. I am selfconcious and a bit introverted, I worry about what other people think of me a lot.

The arguments have been fairly regular. And with them the little bits of name calling and put downs. Mostly that I am immature, selfish, lazy, don't think about him enough, don't make enough time to spend with him, don't want sex enough, don't initiate sex. I have taken all these on board and got to a point a couple of years ago when I started self harming because I believed I was a pathetic excuse for a human being.

Exactly 2 years ago there was a physical incident in front of my daughter. I can't forget or forgive this. We tried Relate but were told we couldn't come back when they learned of the incident. We attended a domestic abuse course together (it was just one day) which was excruciating. Nothing has changed. He was supposed to go on a longer DA course but made excuses not to go.

Most of the time it is still just the arguments that are the bad times. He has not been physical with me since, but he does block my passage from a room, and he does hold my wrists (lightly but securely) when he wants to get his point across.

I now go to work full time and he supports me in this. I also have a regular activity one evening a week which he has been encouraging about.

However I was seeing a counsellor and he very much did not like that. He would ask all the time about what we had talked about, and when I stopped going after I missed a few sessions he has not suggested I go back! He hated me talking to my counsellor and I know he also hates me talking to my best friend about things.

I am living in a bubble with him. I make all the right noises but I feel like I am dead inside. I can't move on. I was going to leave 2 years ago, I really was but I don't know why I just didn't.

I can't talk about any of my real feelings with him for fear of starting off another argument, and I suppose really I am afraid that he will really lose it again.

To make things worse I am due to have some very personal surgery soon, I am very scared and embarassed. I haven;t wanted sex for a while because it is uncomfortable but have done it for him. The nearer to my operation the less I want it. And to be fair he has generally been quite good about that, but everytime he makes it clear what he wants and I have to reitterate my not wanting to I just feel worse about it.
I feel like I don't want him with me for the surgery but I can't tell him that because he will twig my real feelings.
I should also add that I probably haven;t really wanted sex in the last few years anyway, mainly because I feel like he has betrayed my trust in him, and that I am living a sham marriage.

I don't know what I expect anyone to say to all this. I have read such terrible things on here and my lot isn't really so bad. But I can't seem to get over it. Either I should just get over it, or find some inner strength to do something about it.

Can't think of a coherent, helpful thing to say, but I have to say something. A few somethings, in fact. Here are my random ramblings, then, in no particular order, not very well expressed and in most cases far too long, but meant very sincerely nonetheless.

Number 1, most important thing I think, is that you DO NOT NEED A REASON than that you are unhappy. You do not want to be with him. He doesn't have to do anything more than he has already done to justify you leaving, ie, he makes you miserable. As far as anyone can tell, he does this on purpose, but even if he didn't, in this day and age and in this hemisphere you do not have to stay with someone when you really really don't like living with them.

2: HE DOES NOT HAVE TO KNOCK THE SHIT OUT OF YOU FOR IT TO BE PHYSICAL ABUSE. He does not actually have to abuse you in any more physical way than he has already done - as you say yourself there has been "a physical incident"; who says it has to be an actual hit, or if he does actually hit it wasn't hard enough to matter, or it was only once, could have been an accident... he has ALREADY crossed the line you have drawn for yourself, so you've kind of rubbed it out and redrawn it a bit further over. He may never do that again because he knows it is dangerously near the line; he just does things he can get away with (you see he has enough control for that). So you will be waiting for him to give you a "proper" reason and if he doesn't actually hit you in a way you can't fail to believe is real hitting, you will have to stay forever? No. Really you don't.

3rd random thought. Nobody leaves until they are ready, and everyone has a different trigger point. You have nearly been there but have drawn back; that is very common actually. It is NOT a sign that you are too weak. You have NOT blown your last chance. Someone perhaps will remind me what the statistic is from WA about the average number of times abused women leave before they actually make it stick...? It's a lot of times.

Much of what you are saying is the depression talking - an understandable side-effect of living with an abuser. Depression makes you feel weak and unworthy. It saps your strength. Your H will not like you tackling your depression because it keeps you in your place. But you need to because you are currently only living a half-life and you ARE, you ARE worth more than that. I have just come off Citalopram and it was a real life saver through a bad time, so give ADs a thought, but if nothing else, keep going to the counsellor if possible. Which is supposed to be confidential, by the way. So what you talked about is NONE OF HIS BUSINESS.

Of course he's lovely some of the time. If he was horrid all the time you would not be lured into staying. You would see clearly that he is an arse and that you deserve better. As it is, he is nasty quite often enough to "deserve" being left. Nice people can behave unpleasantly to their nearest and dearest sometimes, but they are sincerely sorry and try to learn not to do it again. Your H made a token gesture in that direction, until you climbed back into the box, then he didn't need to try any more.

You're having surgery for a treatment that makes sex uncomfortable for you, but he's still putting pressure on you to do it. That's really nasty. OK, maybe it's just you being over-sensitive (which I doubt!)... but again, it does not have to be all out rape to be abuse. Whether you don't want to deprive the nice man of an opportunity to get close to you, or you can't stand the sulks and snippy remarks if you don't give in, either way it's pressure on you to do something which makes you feel bad for a very sound medical reason.

This one I'm quite proud of, because it constituted one of my own "lightbulb moments" when I felt my head spinning from arguing with XH who was clearly not on the same planet. HE DOES NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE RIGHT. You do not have to win an intellectual argument in order to gain the right to be treated properly, or to leave. You are unhappy, and all the logic in the world can't make that untrue. He can say all sorts of clever things to prove logically that you are a silly little thing for feeling the way you do. You will never win the argument. But you don't have to.

He does not have to say "yes, I am an abuser"; indeed, if he did there might be some hope for him, because admitting it is the first step to conquering it. He won't say it and he won't accept you are right. That does not make you wrong. It just makes him a clever verbal abuser instead of a dumb one who lets his fists do the talking.

I won't even start on the example to your daughter as others have done so already, and although it is a very valid point I don't want you to feel a greater burden of guilt (a very unhelpful emotion). But if you don't feel you are worthy enough on your own account, just think how she deserves the best (and you, a mother who cares about her, ARE the best, however undeserving you feel yourself as a human being).

Summary: you say "it's still not that bad". By which, presumably, you mean other women have it worse (indeed, some do). I say: it does not have to be "that bad". It is quite bad enough.

Take care of yourself.

Great post, Annie! And shabba, I didn't mean to ignore you.

It's not too late.
It's not too late.
It's not too late to leave.

You don't have to be carried out of there in a coffin. You can walk out on your own two feet. The help is out there if you look for it.

Annie - great post. Notaloud - YOU decide what you and aren't prepared to tolerate.

BUT: Your DD deserves so much better.

Good luck, keep posting on here, you'll get masses of support.

At the end of the day, you're not a failure if you walk away from your H. You're not a failure if your marriage comes to an end. Nobody gets judged on that anymore. If your mum decides to stay in an EA relationship, then that's her choice. You don't have to do it because she does. If she put her head in an oven, would you?

"my lot isn't really so bad. "

it is bad, really bad.

compare with what you could have what you deserve. respect. life free of walking on eggshells. a good life a better life .

you ar e not repsonsible for him or for your mum - jsut for you and your daughter. please see a new counsellor.

Bloody brilliant post Annie!

Thanks. But there's just too much of it. I didn't mean to hit the OP over the head with a book. Hope I haven't frightened her now

Sweetheart - ask yourself two questions.

Would you want the same life for you daughter?

Do you still want to be living the same life in 5 years time?

If the answer to either question is NO, then you have to act.

You owe it to your children and you owe it to yourself.

Please.

Annie - Thanks. No you haven't scared me off. I'm digesting.

Have been on entitled to and rightmove.

My worry is that debts would cause problems until the house could be sold. This is really what happened last time. I had to stay in the house because of credit card debts and not being able to afford moving out straight away, and I think thats what stopped me from just upping and going.

I do have a safety net of my parents (which would obviously not be ideal given the history) but could stay there for a bit until the house could be sold and I could rent. My daughter could go to school with her cousin.

Its taking the step to get there...

If you're fleeing abuse your local council has a duty to house you - talk to WA about this, their outreach service can help you find the right people to talk to, and the right things to say. As to the credit card debts - well - talk to the CAB and get hold of any and all statements and bank statements, so you can get that straight as well. I'd be concerned if you went to your parents - given that your father is also an abuser, I'd worry that you'd be more likely to go back to your H, being the devil you know. You'd also need a solicitor, to protect yourself and your DD from the pressures your H may put on you to return.

It's all doable one step at a time - but do talk to WA - they really can make it easier for you, and it's what they're there for

I'm not sure I would call it fleeing abuse. Or maybe I would but not out loud!

If I'm going to do it then I would prefer to feel like I'm doing in on my terms rather than having to run away.

I think thats what I have to come to terms with. My choice.

Like has been said, it may not be that bad, but I have the right to leave anyway. That is the hardest thing for me to get my head round.

Why not out loud? It's nothing to be ashamed of - ask many of the women posting on this thread. It's his shame - you don't have any responsibility for his choosing to behave that way.

And you don't have to think about it as running away - it's running to - a new life, free from eggshells, free to take a deep breath, free to take back the control of your life for you and DD

Its more of a whisper. Or maybe a whimper, right now.

Please leave this man, he is controlling you - he doesnt "need" to hit you - you are compliant and do what you are told.

What happens when your daughter is not compliant enough for his liking?

It is THAT bad - Im sorry but you seem to belive that you dont deserve to be happy, well you do.

Life shouldnt be lived on egg shells.

Forget the money problems - they can be sorted later - sort your immediate problems out - your safety - emotionally and physically

Imagine in 5 years time - do you want to look back and think about the fun things you did with your daughter, the stuff you have done, the life you have built for yourself, the laughs, the tears, good times, tough times but know you have done it yourself or do you want to look back on more misery and being controlled and told how to think and how to feel.

Please do something now

Have a whisper to WA. You might find that the person you talked to before will be delighted to know you're still around!

My SIL was given help by the LEA to flee "domestic abuse" not a finger laid on her just him controlling what she did, checking up on her, spending their money so they were in debt, refusing to move out. She found a house to rent privately they funded the deposit (her the month in advance) and she received housing benefit. Their family home still isn't sold as it all takes time.

But apart from one incident where he dragged me across the room, he hasn't been physical. And what if I am wrong, and it is all in my head?

And he doesn't really control where i go and finances or anything.

And I am worried that I would regret it.

Yesterday he suggested some nooky, but when I said I really didn't feel like anything at all, he was fine about it and said he just wanted to feel close to me. That seems reasonable. He does still keep asking which is troubling me though. How many times can I say no?

"I suspect that things weren;t right from the start. Little things. Mainly just very bad arguments where things got flung (by him) and there was lots of name calling, door slamming, a need for me to always be the one to apologise.

And it has mainly stayed this way. Only over the 13 years I have learnt to keep quiet. Countering the arguments always made them worse."

"The arguments have been fairly regular. And with them the little bits of name calling and put downs. Mostly that I am immature, selfish, lazy, don't think about him enough, don't make enough time to spend with him, don't want sex enough, don't initiate sex. I have taken all these on board and got to a point a couple of years ago when I started self harming because I believed I was a pathetic excuse for a human being.

Exactly 2 years ago there was a physical incident in front of my daughter. I can't forget or forgive this. We tried Relate but were told we couldn't come back when they learned of the incident. We attended a domestic abuse course together (it was just one day) which was excruciating. Nothing has changed. He was supposed to go on a longer DA course but made excuses not to go.

Most of the time it is still just the arguments that are the bad times. He has not been physical with me since, but he does block my passage from a room, and he does hold my wrists (lightly but securely) when he wants to get his point across."

"He hated me talking to my counsellor and I know he also hates me talking to my best friend about things"

Does this sound like it's all in your head? And he does control you physically - when he wants to make sure you're listening to him and you've had enough. That's control.

And who ran up the debts and why? You say he isn't controlling you financially, but has he done his bit to get you both out of debt and keep you there? Or is it maybe another thing to make your life complicated so you don't leave.

Why should you stay? So DD can learn how to appease an abuser too? Really, what's in it for you?

To be fair, the debts are pretty much jointly not budgeting properly and just living beyond our means - ie not going mad on things we don't need, but living in a nice-ish house, putting food on the table.

Finances do stress me out a lot and he knows that. I worry myself sick over it. And I am more of a head in the sand kind of person (as is pretty obvious!)

He has pressured me into going on more holidays than I would have liked. And I have worked full time, doing a job I hated, except for maternity leave, just to keep up with payments, even though it was driving me insane.

At a point when we had some redundancy pay it went on a holiday when I said I would rather not go away but be able to give up work. My side of the argument was not listened to.

Not that its a reason to split, but selling the house would pay off all the debts. So at least I then wouldn't have to worry about it any more.

Well that sounds like he's putting undue pressure on you re finances, and not allowing you to sort yourself out to me. Having to go on holiday rather than pay off debts? It's just silly...

You do deserve help - please talk to someone like WA who can help you with the details? Having someone local on your side can really make all the difference. Please?

This gets to me - 'what if it is all in my head?'

What if it is, Notaloud? Do you think with any other part of your body? Do you think maybe your elbow is madly in love with him and can see the reality?

You don't love this person - in your head, or your elbows, or anywhere else. You aren't happy with him, or even content. It doesn't matter whose fault it is, if it is him, or you, or a chemical reaction.

You don't have to deal with whether or not this is an abusive relationship (and it doesn't matter what we think) just deal with him not being the man/person who you don't love. Don't worry about why - we can't chose who to love. Forgive yourself and leave.

He has left.

I couldn't take it any more. It was only a stupid thing that did it.

I had come home and complained about the potatoes he had cooked because they werent the way I had asked him to do them. My fault for being insensitive. I apologised straight away.

But he couldn't leave it there, he had to continue it and make it clear that I was in the dog house because that is what I always do. And I couldn't stand the thought of being told how terrible I was even though I had apologised.

And I snapped and it all came gushing out.

I feel like shit. He has gone somewhere with a bag of stuff. I don't know where. He has just rung to ask if we can talk and is ringing back in a bit when he has stopped driving.

what has been said between you ?

is it not a good thing he has gone ?

this is your chance, girl

seize it

Don't feel like shit! It wanted saying. He can dish it out but he sure can't take it. Unfortunately it's a dime to a dollar he'll be back again very soon.

You are a good lady who has had more than enough. Be proud that you told the truth, not appalled at your own "insensitivity". If you were insensitive he wouldn't be able to get to you like that.

notaloud - have just come across this thread and wanted to post to say am thinking of you and will be hoping you stay strong, count your blessings and don't let this hideous man back into your life. x

He has said how much he loves me and that he knows we can work on this to communicate better and get back what we once had.

He said that he didn't realise that not going on the perpetrators course was a deal breaker.

He has asked me to take some time to consider this.

At the moment although I feel shit, I do feel quite strong and I have stood my ground repeating that it can't be fixed and I can't ever feel the same about him.

He has gone to his parents 4 hours away, but he will have to be back on Thursday as I work full time and can't manage the school run. Though am thinking of asking my childminder to do the extra day maybe only just this week for now.

I don't really know what I will do, but probably only have the option of going to my parents house. It is a good hour from there to my work. And I would have to take my daughter out of her school obviously. Then when the house is sold I can rent somewhere v small.

I'm ok.