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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Ex FIL will give me £400 if I 'apologise'...

79 replies

DeFluffMyFanjo · 14/10/2009 16:52

Sorry - long story, trying to explain background to be fair to all parties.

ExH and I split over 3.5 years ago. We have a nearly 5 yr old dd.

ExH was/is a pratt. Rubbish with money, one of the reasons we split was because of the constant bailiff letters (even though we both had good jobs he just wouldnt pay bills), I had to pay loans off for him and he cost me thousands of pounds (his STI, constant lying, lack of personal hygiene etc were also reasons!!).

So, ExH has been an idiot re our dd, cancels visits at short notice for things like stag dos, friends birthday parties etc, doesnt bother with parents evenings or asking how she is or anything a normal parent would do. He went through a solicitor to get access every two weeks then turned round and said he only wanted once a month as he 'couldnt afford the petrol'. He turns up at 11 and leaves at 4pm because he says he wants to get home before it gets dark. This is his one visit every say 6 weeks (it usually works out to). About a year and a half ago he moved 200 miles away to live with his dad.

He was made redundant 7 months ago and has not paid any maintenance for over 4 months. He also owes me £400 in court ordered costs for the divorce. He seems unwilling to do any job that he sees as 'beneath him' and is instead (I believe) holding out for his 'dream job'. In the meantime I am finding it difficult financially.

Our dd goes to private school (dont flame me!) and the court order for payment included half of the fees. I recently emailed him to ask if he had a new job (with him being 200 miles away I have no idea what hes up to in terms of work and he wont speak to me on the phone so I cant ring him). He said he was 'looking', I got very frustrated and emailed him to say that my family were helping me financially (I am having to borrow money off them to pay bills) and that I didnt understand why as it was him out of work not me (I work nearly full time) his family werent helping as well.

His dad emailed me today to say lots of things mainly that I'n 'emotionally abusive' (to his son for questioning him re work) and that Im disgusting for querying his finances (the dads). He then said that he can't help financially as he has no money (fair enough) but that if he did have the money he wouldnt anyway because of my 'attitude'. He said that he was willing to borrow the £400 to pay me the outstanding court debt his son owed me but only if 'you apologise to me for your attitude'.

The email was so horrible and Im so upset that he would put his evident hatred of me over helping his granddaughter that I never want him near me or her ever again. I hate it when her father has her because he turns up once every 6 weeks then disappears again for another 6 weeks and totally confuses her. She calls my DP 'Daddy' (because she asked to) and it is him that does everything 'parent wise' with her.

How do I get over my feelings of bitterness at my Exh and FIL, so that my dd can see them every 6 weeks without me giving off vibes of pure hatred? And are their actions fair? My DP would like to formally adopt DD, has anyone any experience of this?

Sorry for the rant and mixed up emotions and thank you if you read this far!

OP posts:
Harimosbroomstick · 14/10/2009 19:30

Look, we all have our own situations and we all have to be happy with our own decisions.

I'm not going to criticise you for something you have chosen to do. All I can say is that I wouldn't do it.

But it does need to be all of one or all of the other IYSWIM. ANd, if he's not the daddy, he shouldn't be being chased for ££££....

I do apologise about the fees... but they are mega!!! Our uniform bill at the start of this year was £1000. DSD1 skiing trip in January = £1000. DSD1 half term netball trip = £700, DSD2 half term trip = £400... As I said, it's massive. Sorry!

Harimosbroomstick · 14/10/2009 19:34

Sorry, not sure if that's too clear..

What I mean is, only you can decide if he has or hasn't lost the right to be 'daddy' (not your DD) and if he has lost that right, then his financial contribution should end there too

You can't expect him not to be the daddy emotionally, but to stump up financially because he is the biological father.

Regardless of what he has done.

DeFluffMyFanjo · 14/10/2009 19:34

lalaklala fingers in ears

OP posts:
DeFluffMyFanjo · 14/10/2009 19:37

that was a x post!

To your second post - I agree. I feel that he has emotionally withdrawn (ie visiting once every 6 weeks) and has financially withdrawn and therefore wish he would just totally withdraw.

Will have to give the whole situation more thought...

OP posts:
JeremyVile · 14/10/2009 19:53

"His dad emailed me today to say lots of things mainly that I'n 'emotionally abusive' (to his son for questioning him re work) and that Im disgusting for querying his finances (the dads)."
Do you mean the dads finances as in ex-fils finances?
If so then I can see why he would be rather irritated.
Its your choice to privately educate and while your ex may be a useless waster that does not mean his family are in any way financially responsible for your dd.
Its not for you to "query" this mans finances.

Avendesora · 14/10/2009 19:57

Re your DD calling her step-father Daddy, I would suppoet that, from what you have said so far its the only chance she is going to get to have a stable father in her life. It takes more than biology. If you stop her now might it harm their relationship?

Avendesora · 14/10/2009 20:00

support*

I think you did the right thing in asking if FIL wanted to help with his granddaughters education. He said no, fair enough. He sounds nasty, a simple no would have sufficed.

You have a few years before it gets really expensive

Harimosbroomstick · 14/10/2009 20:00

I have to agree - once in 6 weeks is shoddy.

My Dh made sure he saw his kids every week when they were that young. It's important to maintain a presence in their lives.

And, I'm happy to admit: Every week was tough. but worth it. I don't think he'd have thave the relatioship he now has if he hadn't done what he'd done 10 years ago.

But, there are times when his ex has demanded to know what I earn and how I spend it and, I have to agree with JV, it's damn annoying (but I'm coming from a situation where the Dad pays WELLLLLLLLLLLLLL OVERRRRRR CSA calculations!)

WhereYouLeftIt · 14/10/2009 20:02

OK, the FIL and the £400 are no longer part of the thread, right? (You're quite right not to, can of worms, have it thrown back at you etc. Although I have to say the fact that he was going to 'borrow' it suggests to me that the 'lender' would change their mind once you had apologised, but I digress ...)

Re the 'daddy' question. You're a bit hardline there Harimo. ExH is the father but that doesn't make him the daddy. I've found small children get the distinction a lot better than most adults. I expect you're right on that one Fanjo, that she feels odd one out amongst friends saying his name rather than 'my daddy'. And 'correcting' her - well, that's a bit of a rejection in my book. If that's what DD wants, I'd roll with it.

FABIsInTraining · 14/10/2009 20:10

Harimosbroomstick - I think you are projecting your opinions on children calling people who aren't their birth parents Mummy and Daddy on the OP. I am actually so wound up by some of your comments that I am having chest tightness. I also know that all most of you will think I am being OTT but I was brought up in care, and have had to call many people mum and dad who weren't my mum and dad but what was I to do when my own parents didn't want me?

viennesewhirl · 14/10/2009 20:10

Totally agree with you, WYLF - Ex is the father, not Daddy - new partner has obviously been in the Daddy role for the past 3.5 years. I think it would be confusing and hurtful to DD to tell her she's "not allowed" to call him Daddy any more.

DeFluffMyFanjo · 14/10/2009 20:16

JV - It was a bit of a straw man really. I don't feel I questioned the FILs finances at all, he obviously feels I did as he sent lots of details about how he couldnt afford to eat etc. What I actually said (to my ExH not to my fil) was that I didn't understand why his family wasn't offering to help as it was him that was defaulting on the court order. I didn't want a breakdown of his (fil)income and expenditure, I'm not interested.

So, in my mind, and I understand that others may feel differently, I am paying my 50% towards the upkeep of my dd. My ExHs 50% is not being paid by him and there has been no suggestion as to when it will be (he has had no job for 7 months).

Because of this my family are very kindly picking up some of my Exhs 50% and my DP and I are covering the remainder.

In my (rather black and white mindset I acknowledge) as it is ExH who is defaulting it should be his family who pick up the slack. Perhaps that's too bold, I mean I would like them to have offered to help in some way, I don't know, maybe paying her ballet lessons for a month or buying her a school cardi or something.

I know they are not legally obliged to but I felt that morally they should want to as it is their granddaughter. I think I just didnt want to be treated like a mug. Fil and ExH come up every 6 weeks and take dd out and they always buy her a load of toys and I want to say - that doesnt feed or clothe her! Stop buying crap and pay towards her school meals or something useful!

I think the private school thing is a red herring a bit. And if you discount that and the fees, the bottom line is still that ExH hasnt paid a penny towards her food or clothes for 4 months.

OP posts:
StewieGriffinsMom · 14/10/2009 20:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Harimosbroomstick · 14/10/2009 20:18

Fab - I really didn't mean to cause offence. I am sorry that I have. Ye,s I agree, I'm projecting my own experiences and opinions on to this. And I'm sorry if that's offended anyone.

Being a SM and my DH is a NRP, so I suppose it's something that gets to me.

But, I never meant to upset or stress anyone.

FABIsInTraining · 14/10/2009 20:23

I am sure it is only me and it is my issues.

DeFluffMyFanjo · 14/10/2009 20:25

Fabs - that is so sad and my heart really goes out to you. Want to come hug you but I'll get sent to Bounty

My DP would never tell dd not to call him Daddy because he adores her and if thats what shes chosen then that's fine with me. I think its a statement from her (in a way) about how she feels about him and the care he gives her. We have a school assembly tomorrow and she hasn't once asked if my ExH will go and watch but she has asked me and my DP to go. (actually DP more than me - bah!)

I do understand that it must break someones heart if their child calls someone else Mummy or Daddy but (and please dont flame me Im just thinking out loud) maybe they only do this if the 'new' parent acts as a proper parent and the 'old' one doesn't? Or maybe if both act as parents? Im confusing myself now I'll shut up.

OP posts:
JeremyVile · 14/10/2009 20:30

Defluff - I can see why you are exasperated and asked about his family contributing, I really do but I also see why ex-fil would be aggrieved at this. This is your daughter, its not up to him to assist financially at all. Just as it isnt the place of your family but I assume they are doing this through choice?

To be perfectly honest I dont see that the shortfall exists because of your ex (and therefore, by your reckoning, the responsibility of your ex in laws to take up the slack), he's unemployed and therefore cannot contribute. The shortfall exists because of your choice to privately educate.

Btw none of this eclipses the fact that your ex has behaved like an utter twat. I really feel for you and your DD, you shouldnt have to deal with his crap attitude towards being a parent, its not fair. Also his father is a nob for accusing you of emotional abusiveness towards your ex. Does he not consider the emotional abuse his GD has been put through?

Harimosbroomstick · 14/10/2009 20:32

I really didn't mean to offend anyone.

It never really struck me to let my DSDs call me mum (even when they refered to me as that) as I knew how heartbreaking my DH would have found it to have another man be their 'daddy' (even though, they were with us so never really an issue)

But, since having my DS and DD, I do feel happier knowing that I never tried to take their mum's place and always tried to facilitate the relationship IYSWIM.

I do appreciate that this is based pretty much soley on my experiences.

But what gets me most is that my DH's ex would love for him never to see his kids now but still expects ££££££££££££££££££££££ - Now SHE is sorted, she'd like her DP to be the emotional father, but for my DH to be the financial one. Thankfully, we are beyond that, and the kids know what's what, but it's still upsetting.

(Sorry for projecting - but I think sometimes helpful to get all opinions.

Harimosbroomstick · 14/10/2009 20:34

OOoh and I'd like a choc muffin please!

Mybox · 14/10/2009 20:34

You have a court order for payment of half the fees. Print out the fil email & take it to a solicitor so you can get the money exdh owes you back. The email says it's being withheld because of what they say about 'your attitude'. It's not for fil & exdh to decide what money you get it's for the court - & they've already made a ruling on this. Get legal advice on this asap.

FABIsInTraining · 14/10/2009 20:42
  • not sure if embarrassed or ashamed.

muffins on there way!

I love hugs. It is the law that you must give hugs when needed, none of this not mumsnet stylee crap.

SpookyScattyKatty · 14/10/2009 20:47

Ok so everyone agrees you Ex's family are in now way responsible for paying for your DD. My DH would rather starve to death than ask his parents for money!

I agree that it seems very unfair that you're trying to push your EX out of the Daddy role saying how useless he is (we do only get your side remeber) but still demand money from him!

He hasn't got a job so can't pay right now. If you want money off him I don't think you should be molding your DP into the Father. I often find that people want to create nice new families after divorce so are very keen to push out the old

Harimosbroomstick · 14/10/2009 20:48

Who said Mumsnetters can do hugs??????????

( I do love choc muffins!)

Op - I would like to add: You sound like a great mum, who wanta the best for her DD... my opinion is just that - an opinion - there for you to tak eon board and do whatever you want with it.

I'm off to bed soon, and I hope my opinion has at least been thought provoking!!

HM x

Janos · 14/10/2009 20:57

SpookyScattyKatty

She isn't trying to push him out at all, he's choosing not to participate. Choosing to move a couple of hundred miles away, cancelling visits at short notice and refusing to work and support his DD tends to suggest he's not exactly desperate to maintain contact, don;t you think?

Just MO, but if OP was the type of mum who could fuck her ex off (excuse my language)and deny him access to his DC without a backward glance - whilst demanding £££ from him - I very much doubt she'd be making posts on MN asking for advice. She'd just do it.

poppy34 · 14/10/2009 21:12

fluffy - I did exactly what your dd did (took to calling dsf daddy aged about 8 and daddy he still is 30 odd years later) - whoever it was said that kids know what a daddy is was right.

fil can fuck off out of it - but agree with others who said if you really are telling ex to go take a hike then that includes his cash too. Also re fees -did he sign the letter for the school etc - if so then they can chase him for his share as he will be responsible too - if not its going to be down to you then using the C'o to get the cash.