Ex FIL will give me £400 if I 'apologise'...

[DeFluffMyFanjo]

Sorry - long story, trying to explain background to be fair to all parties.

ExH and I split over 3.5 years ago. We have a nearly 5 yr old dd.

ExH was/is a pratt. Rubbish with money, one of the reasons we split was because of the constant bailiff letters (even though we both had good jobs he just wouldnt pay bills), I had to pay loans off for him and he cost me thousands of pounds (his STI, constant lying, lack of personal hygiene etc were also reasons!!).

So, ExH has been an idiot re our dd, cancels visits at short notice for things like stag dos, friends birthday parties etc, doesnt bother with parents evenings or asking how she is or anything a normal parent would do. He went through a solicitor to get access every two weeks then turned round and said he only wanted once a month as he 'couldnt afford the petrol'. He turns up at 11 and leaves at 4pm because he says he wants to get home before it gets dark. This is his one visit every say 6 weeks (it usually works out to). About a year and a half ago he moved 200 miles away to live with his dad.

He was made redundant 7 months ago and has not paid any maintenance for over 4 months. He also owes me £400 in court ordered costs for the divorce. He seems unwilling to do any job that he sees as 'beneath him' and is instead (I believe) holding out for his 'dream job'. In the meantime I am finding it difficult financially.

Our dd goes to private school (dont flame me!) and the court order for payment included half of the fees. I recently emailed him to ask if he had a new job (with him being 200 miles away I have no idea what hes up to in terms of work and he wont speak to me on the phone so I cant ring him). He said he was 'looking', I got very frustrated and emailed him to say that my family were helping me financially (I am having to borrow money off them to pay bills) and that I didnt understand why as it was him out of work not me (I work nearly full time) his family werent helping as well.

His dad emailed me today to say lots of things mainly that I'n 'emotionally abusive' (to his son for questioning him re work) and that Im disgusting for querying his finances (the dads). He then said that he can't help financially as he has no money (fair enough) but that if he did have the money he wouldnt anyway because of my 'attitude'. He said that he was willing to borrow the £400 to pay me the outstanding court debt his son owed me but only if 'you apologise to me for your attitude'.

The email was so horrible and Im so upset that he would put his evident hatred of me over helping his granddaughter that I never want him near me or her ever again. I hate it when her father has her because he turns up once every 6 weeks then disappears again for another 6 weeks and totally confuses her. She calls my DP 'Daddy' (because she asked to) and it is him that does everything 'parent wise' with her.

How do I get over my feelings of bitterness at my Exh and FIL, so that my dd can see them every 6 weeks without me giving off vibes of pure hatred? And are their actions fair? My DP would like to formally adopt DD, has anyone any experience of this?

Sorry for the rant and mixed up emotions and thank you if you read this far!

You have a five year old with a man who was financially unreliable when you split up with him 3.5 years ago - when she was 18 months old.

Base line is, you cannot afford private school. All all the moaning at your ex's family in the world does not make them financially liable for your daughter's schooling.

Your ex should be paying mainteance if he is working, definitely, but unless you have a legal agreement about school fees, then the choice of schooling is up to you to fund.

Being pissy with your FIL will get you absolutely nowhere. I would email him back explaining that you are not interested in him money and would instead like his grandaughter to see her father a little more often.

Personally, I wouldn't apologies, but if the £400 was needed, I have finely crafted apologies for when I don't want to apologise, like

"I apologise if you've been offended by my attitude"

• I don't like offending people
• I haven't said what my attitude is

Dunno if that helps at all....?

Harismo - Im interested in why you think its wrong for dd to call dp 'daddy'? Ive never been divorced before or had any experience of step parenting but i assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that if the decision was child-led then it was fine? We would never have asked dd to call him that, she asked to.

He is the one who has been with her for the past 3 years, who gets up in the night to her, cooks for her, plays with her, cuddles her etc. Does anyone else think this is wrong? Happy to take any advice as Ive never been in this situation before.

I do sort if agree re his family helping, ie I know they're not legally meant to, I just thought that they would WANT to as its his granddaughter. Im probably just used to how my family operate and therefore find his attitude strange.

tell him to shove his fictitious £400 where the sun doesn't shine

You already knew your fil was ethically opposed to private school, so it's a bit beyond me why you thought he would want to pay for it anyway.

If your ex isn't working, you have no chance whatsoever of extracting any money from him, and it would be better for you to accept that now and let it go.

DeFluff... Just look at it the other way around... would you want your DD calling another woman mummy?

(And I know, at this point, you will say: But I have been there for her, I've been with her, I have gotten up with her in the night etc. etc., and I'm not negating any of that - because that's what my DSDs mum had done for the first couple of years)

But, once they met me, I was a 'mummy' figure and I did what mummies do and therefore they wanted to call me mummy. I didn't (and don't) think it's right.

I often felt like I was more of a mum to my DSDs - I went through their illnesses and childhood quarels etc., but I am not their mum. They have one and they deserve to be able to love her unconditionally, even if I (and their dad!) don't. ANd she is their one and only mummy.

I've often done the things you mention above - cuddled, laughed with, played with, taught to ski, taught to swim, get up in the night, change nappies.. It does not make me a mummy.

I AM mummy to my DS and DD and I know I would FREAK if anyone else decided to call themselves a mummy (with or without my child's desire!)

My DH's ex is still very present in my DSDs life, but that hasn't stopped them, at times, wanting to call me mum. SO, yes, I feel it's up to me to ensure that they know they have one mum (as your DD has one dad) and that relationship is always held dear.

ANd, before it is asked: NO, I neither like or get on with my DH's ex. We have no relationship to speak of. And the less I have to do with her / think about her, the better, quite honestly. But, I still respect her position of mum.

I do see what you're saying Harismo.

In this situation though, it looks very much like DD's 'real' Dad doesn't actually care very much about her and perhaps she has picked up on this.

It would certainly be a very different kettle of fish if DD was distressed by it, and EXH was a loving and involved Dad.

Colditz - she was just over 1 when we split up. He was financially unreliable but he earned a good salary as do I, our household income was around £80k.

It was not my sole choice of schooling it was our decision at the time, she has attended since she was 7 months old. There is a court order re maintenance and the school fees.

Unfortunately I had to buy him out of our house when we split and also had to take on a lot if his debt when we split so although I earn a lot its taken up with bills. When this is paid off in a couple of years finances should be straight again.

Ok, if the fees etc are court ordered, can ou not go through the courts to get them?

Colditz - I didnt know he was opposed to private school at all until he sent me this email. I actually think he and his father were privately educated so had no reason to presume he was opposed at all.

Colditz (sorry I keep addressing all my posts to you!), Ive spoken to my solicitor but she has advised not to at the moment because I have to pay her fees and he gets legal aid so within a very short amount of time the maintenance arrears (about 2.5k at the moment) would be taken up with legal costs.

If it's CO'ed then you are TOTALLY within your rights to demand your Ex pay.

You are under no obligation to interact (and certainly not apologise to!) his family.

HE agreed to it. HE has to stump up to it.

Let HIM apologise to his father for educating his daughter in an ethically opposable manner.

WIth a CO you have the moral highground.

Yes, of course your ex should sort hisspending out.

It sounds as if you have to go back to court.

And tbh, if you can´t afford the school fees between you anymore, then you can´t.

And tbh, as disgusting as I thought your XFILs reply was, I also found the implication that he should take some financial responsibility pretty out of order.

I´m not surprised you got such a reply.

OP - Can you not talk to the school and show them the CO... ?

They should be able to charge you the 50% and then get a credit agency to chase him for his 50%.

They will be able to help with that. (though my earlier point still remains: 5YOs are cheap compared to 15YOs!!)

where does a three/four/(I'm assuming the calling your dp daddy isn't that recent?) year old get the idea of calling another man daddy?

I just can't see this happening without some leading on behalf of someone else.

I do see where Harimosbroomstick is coming from on this tbh. If your xh wasn't in the picture at all then I can see how a child would reach a point where she called another man daddy (or mummy if it was the mother out of the picture).

But I do think that if the other parent is still in the picture, (and while I appreciate that you don't feel he sees her enough, he does at least still see her), it is a little disrespectful to the real daddy here, and diminishes his role in your dd's life.

If dh and I split, I would be devastated if my ds called any other woman in his life mummy.

email "I'm sorry that you have raised a child who doesn't take his family responsibilities seriously and that you feel that he does not need to support his own child, despite the court order"

its an apology isn't it?

Look, can we all agree that the FIL should be left out of this?

It's nothing to do with him and any corresponsdence is simply going to cloud the issue.

If the FIL wishes to help his son (on his son's request) then that's great, but other than that, he is under no obligation to help this child.

wannaBe - that last sentence sums it up for me. I'd be devastated if another woman felt the right to call my babies hers and call herself mummy. I suppose I feel the same should extend to dads too.

wannabe - she asked without any prompting. She's been calling him dd for about 6 months so since she was just over 4 and a bit.

There was definitely no prompting from either of us. I think many people assumed he was her father (ie other parents at nursery etc) and they would say 'go ask your Daddy' (or similar) and she would always say 'Hes not my daddy hes P'. Then she just called him 'Daddy' the one day out of the blue. A few days later she said 'Can I call you Daddy' and then did it all the time.

Does this mean she's intellectually advanced?! Joke

I actually think its partly because she likes to tell her friends that she went to the zoo, or the park etc 'with Daddy' as she doesnt want to say 'with P' as it marks her out as different. (This is just a theory of mine).

Sorry, still disagree.

my DSDs were 4 and under 1 when I entered their life.

Without any prompting, they often called me mum. I always corrected them. It's easy enough to do.

We came up with a NN for me (which DSD2 - who was very little and not speaking properly - could deal with) and that's what they call me to this day.

I don't think you'd like it if your Ex was getting his new GF to be 'mummy'.

I do realise this is clouding the original question, sorry, (and I think you should stick to your guns on the CO) but I do think it's an important point as your child becomes older and more aware.

Your DP is not her father. End of.

If he's not going to pay it, he's not going to pay it, whether the court tell him to or not. That doesn't mean he isn't legally and morally obliged to keep to the agreement you both made, but the point of the matter is, if he doesn't pay, the schoool doesn't get paid.

If you are having problems this early on in her schooling I would seriously suggest getting her out of that school before you get into more debt than you can handle.

But ,COlditz, if there is a CO, then the school ought to be able to split the fees and chase the exP / ExDH for the other 50%.

They may not be sucessful and the child may have to move, but it saves the OP taking on 100% liability for the fees....

Otherwise I do agree, 5YO are cheap, IMHO, compared to future expense of private schooling!!

Stop scaring me re private schooling fees going up!! Got me worried now. Hers aren't too bad increase wise, not until she gets to sixth form anyway.

Seriously, I'm hoping it will be ok because in 3 years all my debt from the marriage will be paid off so will have disposable income. (Crosses fingers)

And, I'd like to add, OP:

If your DP does wish to be daddy, lock stock and barrel, then he ought to suck up the school fees (and every other expense your DD incurs)

You can't be the daddy sometimes, but then abdicate responsiblity when there is a bill needing to be paid and expect 'the real dad' to step up.

Sorry, but you can't. That's wrong.

Ours are!!!

Once they go from Prep to senior school, it's a different order of magnitude.

IT's not just the fees.. there are uniforms, trips, extra lessons, sports... it's massive.

Sorry!

Gah - Harimos I am taking a strong dislike to you over these fees! Although I think I feel the pain already, uniform cost me £297 last month.

On the DP paying point, he does currently. All his money goes into the 'central pot'. He is aware that obviously if ex h does agree to him having parental respopnsibility then he (ex H) would not be liable for any maintenance at all. He is more than happy for this to be the case.

As it is he already picks her up from school everyday and therefore cant do overtime (apart from weekends) and has told work he cant go on work trips abroad (which can be very frequent) because he wants to be here for dd. We are very lucky to have him.

Ive been thinking what you said re my dd calling someone else 'mum'. You're right I'd hate it. I think (and Im aware we will probably disagree on this) that when ExH did things such as:

. Choose to move 200 miles away
. When he was here constantly bring dd back early on his visitations
. Forget to feed or change dd on visitations
. Tell me (when I was working full time, he had left and dd was up every night on the hour every hour) that because he had helped to settle her once he was not going to 'bail me out' again
. Cancels visitation because he wants to go out drinking with mates instead
. Didnt turn up Boxing Day to see her last year!!
. Etc etc

he lost all rights (in my opinion) to be called Daddy.

I know others may disagree but to be honest I dont mind tha, I feel quite happy in my decision to let her do it and that its whats best for her.