Its all broken. I can't keep sticking plasters on this can I?

[goldyfish]

This is a real muddle, I'm sorry.
During a lovely meal today with friends I sat and watched how they interacted, their love and affection for each other subtle yet obviously strong after 20 yrs of marriage. Something I have noticed a lot recently with other friends.

DH, in contrast, was the opposite.
We live parallel lives.
DH has a really good job and travels abroad a lot. He is very clever and respected in his industry and works very hard and has amazing perks too.
But at home I find him very bad tempered and resentful. He clearly doesnt love me and I doubt he even likes me much anymore after 17 years.
I asked him tonight if its so bad why is he still with me? He shouted he really didnt know. I cant discuss anything with him. He shouts and rants then leaves the room.

But when I ask him exactly what I do wrong I only hear lack of ironing, not working and bringing in any income (I am sahm to toddler) and that I have no respect for him.

Eldest dd12 says life without him is calmer and happier when he is working away. I hate that they are so supportive of me when they should be just being little still. they stick up for me in rows. Not good.

I have had quite a bit of involvement from my GP this time last year as I was ill from stress and he sussed what was going on, but havent gone back.Gp said it was mental abuse and I had some counselling but I stopped all of it this summer as I decided to really try to make the marriage work.

But I know its not. I am so sad and confused. I thought being a grown up meant you had the answers.

I cant imagine how I would cope though with 3 kids, no career and certainly no money.
Its all such a mess. Where do I start?

Itsme, I know and I thank you for your advice.I could phone them.

The household is my job for now, its not badly managed, some people say how well I juggle it all and the animals on my own. Its no show home but it works ok. I know I could manage as a single Mum but that makes it harder to decide, as I know how difficult it is on your own.

Ally,interesting to hear your perspective. Yes youre right about the whole putting the bins out. Having room service on tap all week doesnt help either.

I really want to retrain (I was at Uni when I got pg and never finished). But have no idea how to pay the fees. Do you get help if on own with kids?

and cakes, thank you for all the hugs, thats lovely.

I think I'm right about him wanting a 4th child to keep you trapped in the marriage "trophy wife", "trophy kids" I would be devasted if one of my girls married and became a trophy wife and not loved for who they are, have seen it happen in my family it's just desperately sad - all hat and no knickers.

thats easy Moondog.
He wants success, respect (from friends and colleagues) and most importantly, money.

His family now think he is a God.
When I met him he was a waster with no contact with them. But he was fun, Bohemian, overweight and both shy and lacking in confidence.

Now he is very attractive for his age, thin and serious. A lot of my friends are very flirty with him. He is not the man I met.

I think I am angry not sad.

i have absolutely no idea what I want.

Well, you obviously want to be treated with love and respect.

He probably thinks you wouldn't dare leave him and his associated money and glory. I'd try it, if only to scare the hell out of him. Men like this are usually successful because they have a woman at home manning the decks as it were. I know, I am one of them (as well as working f/t) but thankfully I have a dh who appreciates me and knows that what he does would not be possible without me.

Yes thats exactly what I hoped for.

I did do just that 6 months ago, I said I'd had enough and was leaving.It caused all sorts of untold wretchedness. Really cant go into that on here.
But suffice to say that all promises to change and sort things out werent kept for long. I was a fool to think they would be.
i know the answers here.

I can see what I would be writing on this thread if I saw it.
Flogging dead horse.

Oh dear.
It can't continue.
Not without making you utterly wretched.
Possibly even more than you are now.

goldyfish,

Re your comment:-

"He always has been pissed off generally with life. Luckily its not just me that annoys him, most people do. he is jus one of those high functioning people who finds lesser mortals intolerable"

This comment of yours was very interesting, particularly with reference to "lesser mortals". My BIL is like this and he is a narcissist. They often suck women in in such a manner as well, they are very full on in the early days.

You can't have a relationship with a narcissist though. It doesn't work and your H does not seem at all interested or bothered. Both parties have got to want to make the marriage work and he's not doing anything, you're carrying it all. No surprise therefore to read that Relate was a disaster; he likely stonewalled the counsellor and thought her stupid.

Why did you marry him though if you did not love him?.

You feel undoutedly wretched enough as it is, you're flogging a dead horse here because this situation is actually untenable.
Think a return to the GP is wise along with talking to Womens Aid.

What are you both teaching your children about relationships here?. After all we learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents. You have a choice ultimately re him, your children have no say.

goldyfish - your DH does not work in the City does he? I worked with a lot of men like this.

Constantly competing with other men around them, got to have the 'trophy wife, 'even bigger house', 'even bigger bonus' than the guy on the next desk.

Earns a lot, fabulus perks but it is never enough. No one meets their exactng standards. They schmooze and pursue clients to the ends of the earth, like DH pursued you. It is all about them.

Goldy what a sad situation.
Do you mind me asking why you married him if you did not love him?

Abetadad. of course he does! Thats exactly how it is. Very few of my RLfriends have any concept of that world. Did you opt out?
To the point of bigger private jets even!
In complete contrast to that is homelife with the kids which is all mismatched socks and who ate the last digestive ?
He really does have 2 different lives.

Sometimes I think he doesnt want me to leave as it would be shameful rather than devastating.
I have lasted this long because my Parents marriage was just the same. My sister always remarks upon how I married our Father so to speak.

I married him beacuse I was pg and my parents told me to for a better chance in life.I was at university miles from home. I was also desperately sad about it all. It was the most unromantic wedding day ever, he spent most of it outside with his bestman and my dad cried with regret.Its all a bit pathetic now I write it down.
I was very naive.

Oh goldyfish that's awful about your wedding day, how miserable. I really think you deserve a better chance of happiness, whether it's someone else eventually, or just being away from this relationship that's not making you happy. You feel he doesn't love you either - I'm not one to shout "ditch the bastard" on all relationship problem threads, but it does sound as if you'd both be happier out of this, and the DC too. It is possible. He earns well and has a duty to look after you financially. As time goes on you could have a job/career - think about what you like doing and where you would like to be. Having a goal and retraining could inspire you and give you more confidence, and you would meet new people. You don't want to look back when you're 90 on years of a loveless marriage. And it does sound as if you've tried to fix it.

Goldyfish - I felt so sad when you mentioned about your wedding, and maybe the fact that you never loved him does mean this is fated and you need an exit strategy at this stage.

I think when you have a very demanding job which involves travel and long hours it takes over your entire life and clouds your judgement ( I lived this way when I was a solicitor ) I must say however that my male professional partners at that time tended to have stay at home wives and larger than average numbers of children but they all had a nanny and a cleaner employed to ensure that their wives could be there for them and supportive and not stressed out and dealing with odd socks in the little time they had together ( I had a nanny and cleaner too so that our time together though short was not full of domestic stuff) With three children and a house to run and animals I don't think you can achieve the "perfect home" for your DH and he must make extra povision if that is what her really wants - he should be doing his own ironing anyway.

He doesn't sound very nice but the posters on here don't know him and it will not help to brand him as an abuser in resolving your problems. You have nothing to lose by booking some counselling, telling him it is non negotiable and using it to a) find out what he really wants and what you really want.

If ending the marriage is the outcome then any understanding of each other may help you resolve all the ancilliary bits and pieces more easily.

Lastly, if all this hard work of his is generating income that is only taken up paying a huge mortgage and other financial committments that relate to an apparently affluent lifestyle this will generate misery in any event. You will be much happier in your own rented house/flat planning for a realistic future than in anyone elses gilded birdcage.

I don't think this marriage is saveable because the H clearly, fundamentally doesn't regard women as human beings. He doesn;t see Goldyfish as a person at all; she's a piece of property, a machine that needs a thump now and again to stop it malfunctioning. It's not possible to get men like this to change.

What life do you have?

How would it be worse if you left? You won't starve, your DC won't starve, you won't be homeless. If he earns a good salary he will have to give you money.

You gave him a chance to change. He didn't.

Goldy - you're not the OP from this thread are you?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/837560-How-to-make-DH-accept-his-words-are-hurting-me

If not, there are striking similarities, even down to the acquisition of private jets.

The difference in feelings from both OPs seems to be that you don't love him - and never have. Bit confused that you say your parents persuaded you to marry, yet you say your Dad seemed to have tried to dissuade you. Then you say your Dad is just like your H and that your parents' marriage was just the same.

What's keeping you there?

Goldy - you need a nanny, cleaner and a person to do the ironing. That will take pressure off you to then go out and get a job yourself so you have your own money. You also need a personal allowance to pay for what you need for yourself and the children. Your DH can afford it if he is that big an earner.

Yes I did opt out and now work for myself doing what I used to do in the City, see my kids every day, am with my DW 24/7 (she works with me as we both worked in the City)and yes we are poorer for it but a heck of a lot happier.

Wow. Goldy. I could be one of your children. This was my parents 20 years ago.

Dad was never there. When he was he seemed to seethe with contempt for us and irritation a us all and treated my mum with disdain.

He provided a massive house, financial security, good education...all of which I appreciated, but my childhood was not a happy one. It couldn't be with a miserable mother.

Even the start of their relationship was the same. She married him because he was so adoring. She is a bright and attractive woman and was, many would say, way out of his league, but he became more successful and expected us to be a constant credit to him. We always fell short of his astronomic expectations.

I know that my telling this story is not a help to you, but I wanted to give you a child's perspective as the story is so incredibly familiar.

The end of the story is that my mother, after years and years of making do and papering over cracks and keeping the house nice and the pretence up, met a wonderful man. She got the strength to leave, got a job which she loved, bought her own house with the divorce settlement. She became the mother we always wanted. Happy, strong, herself for the first time - not some stepford wife.

The other wonderful outcome was that we, as children, built a warm and affectionate relationship with our father. He is priorities shifted when he was given this wakeup call and he changed out of all recognition. I am so pleased my Mum left when she did for all our sakes.

I hope you realise that this can happen for you too. Good luck.

goldy i wish you all the best
great advice on here

hi goldyfish sorry i have joined the thread a bit late...Just reading you initial post you said you noticed other people were cuddly. Are you two cuddly at all....it doesnt always have to come from the man...do you try an initiate cuddles.

I too had children with a man i was very fond of, but couldnt say i was madly in love with and once i had fulfilled my role of having children ,there was nothing left emotionally..WE had a fab lifestyle ,company trips abroad,expenses,lovely meals outetc.Maybe that is what has happened with you and DH and maybe he has come to that realisation.
MY ex was like that with his shirts too,if there was one crease in the wrong place or the cuffs weren't ironed properly he would moan...i never felt good enough either.I made the move to split up despite having a low paid job.I have forfeited all the niceties and have gone it alone...its not worth the hassle...life is too short and my boys who are now 16 and 21 said it was much better than hearing constant bickering and rows.

The other thing is,he may be forcing you into making a decision that he is incapable of making...the one to split up.
It is a very common thing in relationships for one person to provoke extreme reactions in the other person(ie you) in order to get what they ultimately want,which may be unfortunately to split up.Men are definitely the weaker sex when it comes to the real split up.
Men are not very good in suggesting a split according to my solicitor and there are far more women who broach the subject than men. I would ask him outright ,if he is having an affair.

This is heartwrenching stuff but I think you need to leave. He just sounds impossible to live with.

I have read carefully but can't see the reasons you have given for being concerned about money. Surely he earns a big salary for doing this amazing job with fantastic perks? If you divorce him you will still be very comfortably off, no? There will be a settlement (a large one if you have been sahm for 12 years) and regular payments for the children. Please don't use financial concerns as an obstacle to improving your life and the life of your dc.

i agree with BBC

what they said - if you were to stay
"you need a nanny, cleaner and a person to do the ironing. That will take pressure off you to then go out and get a job yourself so you have your own money. You also need a personal allowance to pay for what you need for yourself and the children. Your DH can afford it if he is that big an earner."

but -there seems more to it - h wants to control it, have you there when he wants to show off. "my wife and kids".

my exP also always looked for something better - never happy, is very draining.

"DH is always searching for something he will never find. Our kids are amazing wonderful people and we could have the most wonderful life, but I dont think its enough for him."

you mention anger management, bad tempered, resentful - how does this manifest? are you walking on eggshells trying to keep the peace and avoid outbursts?

listen to your daughter

"Eldest dd12 says life without him is calmer and happier when he is working away. "

so - it can be like that all the time. your kids dont deserve this any more than you do...

you can issue ultimatums - or just start making your exit plan.

OMG I come back to the thread and find so many people have posted. I am a bit overwhelmed and trying to read each and every post but DH is home.

I wil come back

goldyfish please keep posting here.
I have no wise words, just a practical comment to make.
If you do split up, you will be entitled to a financial settlement and your husband will have give ongoing support to you and your kids .
So don't think you will have no money

WhenwillIfeelnormal, no I'm not the same person.

DameEdna, I'm sorry it struck a nerve. Funnily enough, or probably not to some people, my childhood was just the same only my Mum never left. My Dad treated me very badly too. I said this to Dh today. that I'm sure not many other people would put up with him, it just so happens that the other main role model in my life was so similar. How has it impacted on your choices as an adult?

Jasper.Yes, it sounds a bit somewhat confused. We were together, I got pg, parents advised me to marry him for financial security.I did. My father on my wedding day was the one who got cold feet. But, even then I knew that not everyone gets the fairy tale and having someone who seems to tick most of the boxes seemed good. I cared for him deeply then, and still do.

Its such a mess.
I know what the solution is, but I havent got the guts to break us all up. I did it once but he fell apart and it terrified me.
I keep clinging onto the idea that it will all work out in the end.

Today he apologised. He was sorry for his aggressive shouting last night. he said the stress and monotony was getting to him.He said we cant carry on like this. I agreed. He suggested either we split up or a new start. I clung to the new start when my head was saying 'grab the get out card now you fool'. But I couldnt. I went along with ideas of downsizing etc.

Alypaly. You sum up your relationship with striking similarities. Did you feel this sadness too at the time?
We dont cuddle. He almost freezes if I try.I feel very awkward around him always have which saddens me. I wasnt always like that. I would not have a clue if he was having an affair.He has many opportunities but I dont think he has the energy frankly.

BBC; no equity, some debt. Cant even pay a solicitor as have no savings.

Solidgold, sometimes things arent as black and white though as that though. DH doesnt beat me or do terrible things. He does provide us with a comfortable life really. Its complicated. It really is.
I havent mentioned everyone, but I have read them with much thought, and I am so grateful for your opinions.
I cant see the wood for the trees yet.