How do I deal with DH's drunken temper?

[BitUpset]

DH and I have been together for almost 4 years. He's always been a bit volatile when he's been very drunk, which doesn't happen very often. But recently it just seems to be a bit worse.

When he's had any more than about four pints he becomes very sensitive to any form of argument or criticism from me, so that it ends in him shouting at me on the way home, which is very embarrassing and a bit unsettling. By argument I mean any form of disagreement at all, really minor stuff. He blows it up so that it's impossible to discuss it and I'm just left with him yelling.

This happened last week and he got himself so angry (about what, even he couldn't explain) that he slept on the couch for the first time ever. I felt stunned and cold inside and have not really felt the same since, it's been on my mind.

Tonight we went out for the first time since. All fine, he probably had about five pints which is about the most he ever has in one night. On the way home we agreed he would feed the cats while I put the dinner in the oven. When we came in he squirted some fresh food on top of the old food in the cats' bowls and walked off. We always wash all the food and water bowls twice a day. I said if he didn't want to feed them he should have asked me to do it. I picked up the water bowls to wash them and he stormed back in, started shouting at me about how I was always second-guessing him, slammed the kitchen door shut terrifying me, the cats and the neighbours and shut himself in to the living room. He then came back and did the same again.

I went through to the living room to tell him if he was doing this he would be sitting on his own tonight and may be sitting on his own for more than that, and he told me to fuck off. I honestly have not done anything more than said that tipping new food onto old did not count as seeing to the cats.

I have now shut myself into the bedroom with the computer, Saturday night ruined. I don't know what to do. Is this normal after a couple of pints - should I just work on getting him to stop after two drinks or is this his real self coming through? I have never considered being without him but this behaviour repels me. This shouting and slanging is just not me and not what I am willing to put up with. His family all drink excessively and have soap opera-style dramas but he was never like that, until now.

BTW we have no DC, we were are TTC. And normally I love him and want nothing more than to have a family with him. This is really really crap.

Its not a good thing to be downing five pints in five hours anyway; its way too much.

Drinking to self medicate problems is no solution. The underlying issues are still there with or without drink; all the drink does is numb the pain for a bit then it comes back with a vengeance. His drinking is affecting you too in ways you may not realise, you are perhaps behaving differently around him now. Tackling the issues is the main thing to do here and without resorting to booze. Also he should realise that alcohol acts too as a depressant. He cannot deal with his emotional issues by drinking them away - it will not make him feel better and drinking to such an extent puts him at a higher risk of developing a physical dependency on alcohol.

Did both of you have the opportunity to get proper support after your miscarriage?. February was not all that long ago. The Miscarriage Association are very good and could actually help you both, you are grieving in different ways and he may well be using alcohol to numb that pain and helplessness he may well feel. He is certainly drinking for a number of reasons; part of which is learnt behaviour as he saw his family members drink and drink heavily whilst growing up.

If his family are very difficult to deal with/toxic a book he may well want to read is one called "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward.

I would still hold off ttc in these circumstance, it is unfair to be bringing a child into this currently. These issues need to be tackled properly first. No burying head in sand.

"He doesn't go out on the piss with his friends now (hardly ever) so I don't see why he would when we have DC."

Famous last words. Imvho his drinking will become more of a problem as time goes on and once you have a baby and all of the stresses that brings he will have even more of an excuse to drink. You won't have nearly as much time to deal with his nonsense, you will be feeling quite vulnerable, he will probably be feeling a bit pushed out and the changes that children bring are beyond massive. Some men have an interior switch that flicks once women become pregnant and babies are born, the nicest of men can turn into real w*nkers upon realising that their wife/partner is pretty dependant on them and it is so much harder now for them to leave.

Knowing what I know from my own situation under no circumstances would I continue ttc with him until these difficuties are addressed.

I know I was really upset last night but I don't think it's as bad as some people are making out, based on their experiences.

He was lovely while I was pg and while I was mcing, which took 5 weeks to complete and was awful for both of us. He is not that type of man, he really isn't and I know that. He would never resent me being vulnerable and dependant because of being pg and having a baby, I'm quite an independent person anyway so this wouldn't really be an issue.

He quite easily gave up drinking Mon-Thurs when we previously had one or two glasses of wine every night. He's with me on the whole health improving trip for TTC and is extremely keen on having DC with me. His friends are not the going out getting drunk type anyway and now most of them have very young DC so he hardly ever sees them.

I guess this has made me jump to his defence which is a good thing because he doesn't deserve some of the things that have been levelled at him here. He's normally so laid back and not used to dealing with stress that his family problems (which do not directly affect us, it's more that he's embarrassed and concerned about them) and our mc and the pressure of TTC have been more than he knows how to deal with.

Now that that has come out and I'm aware of it, and he's aware that he needs to avoid overdoing drink I think we will be ok.

Thanks everyone.

Hi BitUpset
Really glad you've had a talk with him and he has responded. Make sure he sticks to the no more than 3 plan, and if he has more trouble with anger, tell him it needs to go down to 2.
By the time you are my age you will be licking sugar cubes to get a quick thrill
Good luck with the TTC.

I'm not that young am coming up for 30
Although of course that is nowhere near old

Thanks

You clearly love your dh and so you want to wish away these frightening episodes because you know deep down it's killing any dream of a happy family life with this man.

But you love him, think you can change him and will continue ttc because in your vision he'll make a great dad and these dark episodes are just one offs which will stop as soon as you are pregnant.

Ok.

Now imagine this. Your baby son is watching you, he sees his daddy angry, violent, he is scared and is crying.

Your son is a bit older now and he sees his daddy frighten you, and sees you crying and wants to protect you.

Your son is now a teenager, he's angry with the way his dad treats you but you are now a shadow of your former self, after years of put downs and walking on eggshells, not knowing when he's going to erupt.

Your son now is older, now married. His wife does things to annoy him, he reacts the only way he knows how, by being violent and intimidating.

And so the cycle goes on.

And if you had a daughter? She would 'normalise' the way you are treated and think this is the way men are. She would be attracted to an abusive man because that is all she knows.

So, if you can't act on the clear warning signs to protect yourself, I hope to god you can act to protect your poor unborn children and provide them a safe, loving home with a daddy that is fun and safe to be around (ie someone new).

Barrelofloves thanks for replying but that is a huge leap and not one I am prepared to make. To describe him as an abusive man is not accurate.

He fell out with me because he'd had too much to drink, which is something he's agreed to avoid. He is a reasonable person and he loves me and does not want to hurt me. He's never made me cry. I'm not naive or an idiot and I've read enough about DV on these threads.

Got to go to work now.

As your DH is an arse when drunk, he makes the decision to be an arse with the first pint. Therefore if he drinks he has made a decision that he is more important than you.

Hi,

If the drink brings out his internal anger then he needs to address the causes of that anger properly. Its come from somewhere (it most likely started in his own childhood) and it does neither him nor you any favours when he drinks because you bear the brunt of it. That's unfair on you.

Slamming doors and telling you to F off is disrespectful at the very least; what would he have done if you had replied in kind?.

I don't actually think he will seriously stick to no more than 2 or 3 per session; its a pipe dream. You cannot control this: you think you can but you really can't.

He sounds like he is drinking to self medicate his problems; its clearly not working is it?. Nothing is being sorted out here and you as his wife are part of the overall problem as well. By this I mean that you need support as much as he does.

Its unfair too of you both to bring a child into this mix currently. A child won't solve these underlying issues, it'll make any cracks worse.

Just read this and wanted to ask: When you talked together the next morning did he bring up his family and your due date as reasons why or did you ask him if that is what was worrying him?

I'm sorry you feel that everyone is seeing the bad side of him but your posts, although obviously detailing an isolated incident, do show signs of making excuses for him.

What concerned me from reading them is things like this:

"But maybe he did feel got at in some way that was exacerbated by him being drunk. If I had said nothing no doubt he would have been fine. But should I have had to keep schtum to avoid him going off on one, that's what I don't know."

I read that as 'If I'd handled it differently then he wouldn't have reacted like that"

Slippery slope. You shouldn't have to modify your, entirely reasonable, behaviour so that he won't get upset when he's pissed. You'll never behave in the right way if he gets like that - it will always be your fault.

Also this:

"A lot of people get loud when they have too much and it doesn't make them bad people does it?"

If he was just being loud you wouldn't have posted this thread. He's being more than loud. He's being intimidating and unreasonable and making you second guess yourself.

And this:

"He has agreed half heartedly that he should have no more than three drinks max on any day."

Half-heartedly? He knows that drinking excessively makes him volatile and affects your relationship and he half-heartedly agrees not to drink more than three?

And, next time you're out, when he finishes the third I hope for your sake he stops and doesn't order a fourth, while you sit there with a churning stomach not wanting to say anything in case you're being 'that person'.

If he doesn't find better ways of dealing with stress then this is always going to be an issue for you. I'd want more than a recognition that he can't deal with what's happening and a half-hearted promise to cut down.

I think some of you need to get a grip. If the OP were a man describing a woman's drunken behaviour, the reactions would be very different. From what the OP has said, he has never been physically intimidating or verbally abusive, just stroppy, and the worst he's done from what the OP says is tell her to eff of and to slam a door. How many of you can say you've never done that? All this alarmist chuntering about domestic violence and emotional abuse isn't helping, it's just making OP (understandably) defensive.

They've had a talk, OP's partner understands that his behaviour isn't acceptable, and they've worked out a strategy between them. It might not be to everyone's liking, but that's beside the point. Try to listen to what someone is saying rather than making their situation fit your preconceptions.

Haven't had chance to read all of this thread, but my my advice would be to cut out drinking completley, if only for a few weeks, just to get emotionally straight again. If there are problems on his mind, the drinking won't be helping. It would also be useful to kmow if it is possible to go a few weeks without drinking if you are ttc and not expecting him to be going out once you have a baby

BitUpset,

I've posted here before re. my husband's anger.
I could have written your post many years ago. My dh was like yours, lovely, kind, funny etc. but every now and then he would get incredibly drunk and behave in a horrible way.
Afterwards, there were always apologies.
This would happen perhaps once/yr in the begining, very easy to shrug off as he was so nice the rest of the time.
Then of course, it started to happen more frequently (perhaps 2 sometimes 3 times/yr) and I was ignoring the times when it would happen without too much drink taken.
Over time, I started modifying my behaviour to try to stop these outbursts, making excuses every time.
Then we had children (3) and things got sooooo much worse.
Now he really did have all the excuses he needed both to drink and to get angry - tired from sleepless nights, children whinging, breaking things (his things)and the outbursts got worse and more often.

The stress that having children puts on a relationship is severely underestimated and something that really you won't fully appreciate until you experience it.

Finally things came to a head when he shouted abuse at my 4yo, threatening him (he shouted that he would smash his face in).

It has been a really hard slog since then. He finally has seen what his behaviour is doing. I have spoken to my family about what was going on (most of it) and I feel I have support behind me now to continue.
He is going to counselling and we have seen some improvements, but it really is hard work.

I wish I had known what I was letting myself in for in the beginning.
I would never have thought that by me placating him (when he drank, and afterwards )was allowing him to continue - there was absolutely no reason for him to change.

I know it's easier to push all this aside and just hope for the best - but I see lots of red flags here.

Really think hard about what you are allowing here.

lazyemma,

I think some of these other posters have written strongly primarily because they have been through similar themselves and are giving the benefit of their own experience.

I would not write my replies any differently if this was the other way around. And no I have never told my H to F off and slam a door either.

Feel that the underlying issues have still not been tackled properly as yet by both of them. The OP and her H are still skirting around the problems.

Whether they will or not really face up to all this is up to both the OP and her H. Verbal abuse is being told to F off to my mind; granted he may not have said that if sober. If he is acting like this when drunk then he needs to address why he is using drink in the first place (there are always reasons as to why and he needs to establish what type of drinker he actually is) and continues to drink even though it makes him act out in this way. He seems contrite enough afterwards (this often happens) but it does happen again. He is making a conscious choice to keep on drinking even though its not every day or every week.

The issues surrounding his anger need to be properly addressed by him and not covered by alcohol. Alcohol will do nothing to solve his problems, if anything it will magnify them as alcohol also acts as a depressant.

I agree to an extent that as a few isolated incidents it's maybe not that big a deal. I'm more concerned at the potential for it to get worse if it's not dealt with now seeing as it's now happened twice in a short amount of time.

It concerns me that the OP is willing, understandably so of course, to make excuses and even to take the blame for what happened although I notice that she did tell him at the time to pack it in. Her DH needs to realise that it won't be tolerated or it may become a more regular occurance.

It's obviously a big deal to the OP or she wouldn't have posted. I think most of what people have posted is not overreacting but just making OP aware that this kind of thing can escalate. If they sort it out - great! But it's wise to be prepared.

I'm not saying it's not a big deal, or that this guy's behaviour is OK - I should have made that clearer.

It's just that I see a disparity between the OP's description of the problem and some of the reactions here. It's like Attila said just now - that the OP and her husband are both skirting around "the issues surrounding his anger". Really? That sounds a rather airily knowing statement for someone who to make when they've never met either the OP or her husband.

Sometimes people behave badly when they've had a drink. Pathologising all bad behaviour isn't helpful, and implying that this guy isn't fit to be a father and is at the beginning of a downward spiral of abusive behaviour also is not helpful. It's one thing to post and give the benefit of your own experience, quite another to make assumptions based on that experience.

It's patronising to suggest the OP is "making excuses" for her partner when actually what's happened is that she has said she feels forced into a defensive position by those of you who seem intent in demonising her husband.

The other poster has alluded to issues in her posts which are affecting both of them, particularly him.

He needs to properly deal with what is making him angry in the first place, not mask it in alcohol and then taking it out on his wife verbally when drunk. Where is his anger coming from?. Alcohol is fuelling the underlying problems, its certainly not solving them.

We both agree that he's stressed about a couple of issues and being drunk has brought out his frustration. He saw this thread (came into the room while I was typing and I didn't want to lie to him about it) and knows exactly how I feel about his behaviour. He's ashamed of it but I am in no way placating him, I have told him how unacceptable it is.

At the time I was too angry with him to say this but while I was typing away furiously in the bedroom on Saturday night he brought my tea and the good laptop in to me (I had grabbed the rubbish laptop from the other room) and left me alone. I don't think this is the behaviour of a man who is going to be shaking his fists at me and our DC.

He brought up these reasons for how he's been feeling, I didn't prompt him. I'm certainly not seeing this as a death knell for our marriage. We marked the non-due date yesterday with a long walk and dinner out and it was lovely. The drink is getting cut out and we will be fine.

I think it is cruel and selfish to bring a child in the world when the mother knows the father has violent drunken outbursts.

I'm sorry if your domestic situations are like that and in particular, when your husband is charming and lovely and there are no warning signs until after there are children.

These are clear warning signs and women in love with these men will make excuse after excuse but it is the children that will suffer.

Imagine a little child being on the receiving end of a violent drunk's behaviour. This is not OTT this is normal for many families.

Your choice.

BitUpset,

My dh has been there for me in many ways, for the births of all of our children, our last one at home, and also through a miscarriage (on his b-day).
This same man also pushed me around while I was heavily pregnant btw in a drink-fueled row about something insignificant that I 'did' to him.

It took me time too to come to terms with just how awful his behaviour ca be. It was a gradual process. It was as if I just couldn't let myself see how things really were for such a long time

The fact that he was not bad all the time was confusing. He also has a screwed up family and many other things to deal with.
These are all great reasons for him to be angry, but that's no consolation when he smashes stuff, or threatens me or the children.
I made excuses for him for far too long.

Anway, good luck on cutting out the drink.