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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

One for the men of Mumsnet

107 replies

MrsJellyby · 09/10/2009 22:45

Ok, imagine this: you're a man. You've been married for 15 years, you have 3 children under the age of 15. You've been in love with another woman for 8 years. She's the love of your life. She loves you too, passionately. But she marries someone else because she's afraid you'll never leave your family. You stay friends because you can't bear to not have some contact with her. But her marriage doesn't work out, for other reasons. She gets divorced. You realise she's free again. It's like a freakish twist of fate. You want nothing more than to be with her. But you know that if you leave your DW to be with her then your children will hate you. What do you do?

OP posts:
WhenwillIfeelnormal · 12/10/2009 17:27

Morris - I agree with your point that "And I don't think it is an act of evil or of moral repugnancy to 'take a father from his kids' because dads are still dads wherever they live, and adult men make their own decisions."

I agree that men make their own decisions - and any notion that "the nasty OW made him do it" is bollocks. This infantilises men, who make their own choices.

I do think however, we have a responsibility to be kind and decent to our fellow human beings. If a man I cared about was talking about how unhappy he was at home, the last thing I'd do would be to make him even more confused by taking him to bed. All of us are open to temptation and there's nothing more flattering than an ego boost from someone of the opposite sex.

A lot of couples go through rough patches and difficult times - injecting a new love interest into the mix is however more likely to exacerbate the end of a relationship that could have been saved. To me, this becomes an unfair fight as well.

I've been in this position myself too - over the years, for some reason I've had umpteen men tell me how unhappy they are at home. If circumstances had been different, some of these have been men I'd have been attracted to as well. But my response has always been the same - suggesting counselling, trying to get them to see it from their wife's point of view etc. Giving the green light in these circumstances would be the knock-out punch when the couple are on the ropes - hardly fair and not the actions of a decent person.

And Mummee - I profoundly disagree with your assertion that "but if a man is happily married he is not going to be unfaithful to his wife" - I'm afraid that is nonsense. There are sadly a whole swathe of people who are actually pretty happily married, but because they are feeling a bit down or even severely depressed about other issues in their lives, will accept an opportunity to be unfaithful, thinking that this will jolt them out of their depression or mid-life crisis. It's a form of escapism and is because of a weakness in them, not their marriages.

Many women will tell you on here that prior to their husbands having an affair, they were having regular and enjoyable sex - and their husbands were telling them how happy they were in the marriage. This is why they are mystified when an affair is uncovered. Unfortunately, sometimes it is just opportunity - and sometimes opportunity striking at a time when the married partner is having some other, non-marriage crisis - that provides the conditions for the affair.

So in summary, attached partners have free will to say "no" - and if they don't, it's their fault. But decent human beings support marriages in trouble, not exacerbate their downfall.

stuffitllllama · 12/10/2009 20:18

MorrisZapp, just briefly, I do think the same about the woman and about staying together generally. You may consider me wrong but I am consistent . I also understand the OPs situation, very much so. But despite your very encouraging story, there is no guarantee of a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow: and doing things just because a lot of other people do them doesn't mean they are not self-centred. And the Dad is not here: the OP is here. And she has no idea of the impact, and seeking the outcome of the father leaving the family home for her own happiness means taking a significant risk with other people's happiness.

You can't seek to excuse a woman's behaviour because a man's behaviour is poor. There is self-indulgence on both sides. You can't help falling in love: you can help what you do about it.

Also, I don't know the latest stats, but I believe reference to statistics can be a dangerous path to walk if you are talking about children from divorced families.

TDiddy · 12/10/2009 22:48

mummee09v- it is good that you could empathise and support OP.

At risk of being controversial just want to say that things are not always as simple as some suggest: I knew of a couple who had a very happy family except that one partner was not at all interested in sex and the other was very interested. They didn't want to split but one was having an affair which the other ignore/didn't know/didn't care. So they found a sort of happy equilibrium. I am sure that if the relationship was exposed then the "cheated" party would have felt more embarrassment than anything else. What I am trying to say is that relationships can be so complicated and sometimes people don't want to bust up over affair, sex or whatever. Sometimes people just want to continue a peaceful life. So don't be too judgemental as we don't know people's circumstances and the nuances etc.

butterballs · 12/10/2009 23:14

"he needs to grow a pair of balls and end his relationship with his wife. and then, and only then can you all start to try and sift through the mess and all move on with your live"

Sorry, but I don't agree with this statement. I would have more respect for a man who stuck by his responsibilities towards his family, while, at the same time, recognising that he had also formed an attachment to someone else - who had nothing to do with his family.

I wouldn't have so much respect for a man who was prepared to walk away from his family. Really, I wouldn't. If I fell in love with a married man, I would much rather that he showed a committment towards his family.

sparklefrog · 12/10/2009 23:42

WhenwillIfeelnormal

I agree with absolutely everything you have said so far.
My XP's mum had an affair with a MM. (XP's mum was also married) She left her DH and 5 DC for the MM. MM left his DW and 2 DD's for XP's mum.

After 6 mnths, XP's mum and DP moved back into former matrimonial home.

11 yrs later, XP still feels a huge amount of anger at his DM. XP's brother's and sisters all have dysfunctional relationships. XP has disrespect and anger issues towards women, but still desperately seeks his mum's approval.

XP's sisters are promiscuous, and XP's brothers also have a disrespect for women in general.
They have imo a skewed view of women.

MM's DD's faired slightly better, but the saddest thing I ever heard them say was that even though they accept that their DF is now with XP's DM, there is a part of them that is still waiting for their DF to come home.

You speak alot of sense imo.

MrsJellyby IMVHO MM is staying for his DW, not his DC. If you wait around long enough for his DC to grow up and fly the nest, you will find he will more than likely come up with another excuse.

butterballs · 13/10/2009 11:08

Think my message was a little ambiguous - what I meant to say was that, if I fell in love with a married man, I would not expect him to leave his family for me - I would prefer him to show a committment to his family, assuming he was moderately content. I would respect him more if he had an affair but still stayed with his family, at least in the short/medium term.

In the long term, that situation might not be viable, but a lot would depend on how the wife felt (often people are turning a blind eye in these situations). This would be what I would want my husband to do, should this situation arise (I hope it doesn't obviously).

That may sound contradictory, but I can understand how people can have different types of relationships and also there is not necessarily one person in your life who can fulfill all your emotional/sexual/other needs.

(This is entirely hypothetical as it has never happened but I can understand how it can happen.)

Chickenshavenolips · 13/10/2009 11:36

I suppose (and I have norks and am happily married, so no real experience) that the way I see it is this: you issue an ultimatum, and he stays with his family, or he comes to you. If he stays, you can move on. If he comes to you, could you sustain the fantasy of him being the perfect man? In your imaginings of Mr. Perfect, did part of his make up ever involve him loving a woman more than his children? I'm afraid that if he left his wife, the victory would be a hollow one.

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