If you suspected an adult had aspergers or similar, would you tell them?

[MadreInglese]

I have thought for a while that a friend of mine has some sort of autistic spectrum condition, albeit a high-functioning one.

She is repeatedly alienating people with her increasingly inappropriate reactions to things. In the past the biggest dilemma for our group of friends was what to wear on Saturday night or whether the hot guy from the gym was going to call, and her outbursts and tantrums did not cause such a stir back then. Nowadays we're dealing with and trying to support each other (sadly ) through divorces, bereavements, miscarriages and other serious issues, and her behaviour is akin to that of a spoilt demanding two year old.

She displays no empathy or natural response to anything, will never admit she is wrong or apologise, never acts appropriately in new situations (in fact often calling up others to ask what would be the right thing to say/do), and most of her behaviour is robotic and seems rehearsed or overthought. She will fly off the handle and say horrible things, and awful things have been said back to her by many, but the following day she is back to normal and it's all forgotten - while everyone else is left reeling in shock. She can never take any kind of criticism or blame although she's happy to dish it out, and she never ever seems to think of consequences before she acts. She finds it very difficult to share anything, from food to friends.

On the other hand she displays lots of intelligence with heaps of talent for other non-social skills, including a freakily accurate memory and an incredible ability to learn new subjects very quickly. She is eager to help with anything (mainly I think for brownie points ) and can be fun and nice company on occasion (usually in shallow situations like during a chat about shopping), but it all seems overshadowed by the bad points.

Sadly, because of her behaviour and the upset she has caused, the majority of our mutual friends are shying away from her without any explanation, they are just totally sick of her behaviour and want to concentrate their energies on less draining friendships, writing her off as a spoilt brat.

I've thought for a long time that she may be autistic to some level, I'm not an expert on this kind of thing but it makes sense from what I do know. Would a diagnosis help her if this were the case? I really feel that she has little control over her natural instincts and I think it's sad that she may be left with no-one when it might not be her fault, IYSWIM.

Or maybe she is just a spoilt brat and I'm just a soft sap

I scored 41!

Oh no i would have always got that score i have always been like 'that'

i have FB you

I got 47 on that a few months ago. No formal dx as none available and Dr thinks it is a 'children's disease'

I think if she is already in trouble socially and you feel sympathetic towards her and she considers you a good friend (not sure you are tbh) then yes mention it in a roundabout way.

otherwise no, none of your business and stop hanging around with someone you don't like!!!

Pleeeease stop thinking you can diagnose something as complicated as Aspergers without professional training........And think of the damage that you could do............

Of course you cant

but to get a DX you need to know whether it is worth considering and seeking one

Which is where such info comes in surely?

They use a whole gamut of tests to dx- my ds3 was diagnosed using a protype and it was hugely in epth- but at some stage, years before in our case, we had to approach the GP and say 'we think ds3 may have autism'.

IYSWIM?

If you google the Wiki for AQ (yeah yeah I know but soem articles are well peer reviewd LOL) it ecven says that the AQ test s an indicator for further enquiry if warranted.

The vast mnajority of people I know who know they ahve some level of AS do not proceed formally but in my own experience it doesn't half clear a world of self blame when you relaise that you're not bad or wrong- just different.

justaboutautumn - that's what I need to think about, whether or not it would help her. It's weird because if it were some kind of depression, or a physical illness (eg one white eye in a photo suspicions) it would seem so much easier to bring it up, but it's just so delicate and emotive.

Also, I would never assume that I could diagnose her, I don't claim to be any kind of expert, far from it, but the pieces so far seem to fit, and I have researched a little. And I won't be blurting out "it's alright love, I think it's because you're autistic", if (and a big IF) I ever said something I'd have to think about how very carefully.

ottersRus & Jumente - why do you think I'm not being a good friend?

It sounded from your oP as though you just can't stand her.

But I might be wrong.

My OP probably does sound harsh, but I was trying to think of her traits that pointed towards some sort of ASD. Tbh sometimes I can't stand her - or more specifically her behaviour (but then I am treating her as NT at that point I guess which is unfair if she does have ASD), but there are times when she can be lovely company and fun to be with and will do anything for you. It just seems that recently she has gotten worse, but thinking about it there have been a lot of sad things happen to our friends this year so that may have had an impact (ie if she is unable to figure out what she thinks it the 'correct' reaction to things).

I guess partly I want it to be true so I can feel less hurt when she flips out and I could also then defend her more when others are pissed off with her. But also I know she feels sad and hurt when she knows she has upset someone, even though she doesn't understand why she has or that it may take a little while to repair. But I don't know if being diagnosed would make things any clearer for her.

Hope that makes some kind of sense.

No I think I see where you are coming from. You wouldn't post unless you cared about the potential to help her out.

mind you I always thought the way I do that (a bit like your OP!) was one of my own AS traits...insightful criticism, people don't generally take it too well

and yes if it won't be of any help to her then there's no point in mentioning it

(which is why MN is so great with such a mix of all you lovely people to help me out)

I just don't know if I could just jump in and say something (and definitely not in the style of my OP! )

She does mention that she knows she is different and can't always figure social stuff out like others can, but I think I'm waiting for her to actually clearly ask me what I think.

In RL I'm not usually the one to gob off with my opinion of someone impart my wisdom and criticism on others unless I'm asked or prompted by a hightened situation.

just wanted to say something...

i have an aspie son of 17. it is something you can spot in others once you live with it or can see it - i have no formal training and am not a psychologist but i correctly saw it in my DS and i often now "aspie spot".

as for what you can do about your friend - its tricky. if she does have AS she is still and individual and you know your friend better than us. how do you think she would handle it if you were to mention it to her?

it was only when my son was dx i saw it in myself. my hubby refers to me as "being touched" lol

i feel sorry for your friend. its doubtful she will even know she is hurtful and she may well end up friendless and alone - it may not bother her at all but i think id have to ask myself if my friend would want to know.

why dont you ask her....just say "if you thought someone you knew had aspergers would you tell them?" and see what she says.
if she says yes then there you go....she may not have ever even heard of it - you could then tell her what it is - she may well put two and two together.
if it were me id want to know. (and i think i do now cos DS got dx!)

People have occasionally said to me that I say things that offend people...it was news to me but I wasn't thrown completely as I already kind of thought we were very different...it was people whom I didn't feel close to anyway. It's helpful to me really as it makes me go 'Oh really?' and gives me clues...I am glad they said it.

I am still friends with someone who said that. She seems to put up with me, maybe I have got less offensive, I don't know, but I am fairly sure I still do it as people approach me initially and are wanting to make friends, then gradually kind of give me the 'look' at some point and thereafter just smile/ I don't know how to converse and am fairly strange.

Yes I think say something, in a nice way. It might really help her out, I'm still waiting for instructions on how to talk politely to people, not sure who is meant to be providing them but at least I have a reason why nobody likes me. It stopped being totally my fault, making me feel like a horrible nasty person etc etc.

Instead I feel cross that my teachers and so on never realised I was just different, rather than a freak or being awkward. Still actually no idea if the test indicates I am genuinely aspergic (?)

I really don't see any point in telling your friend of your suspicions. I think you need to decide whether you still want her to be your friend & whether you want to be a friend to her. Whether or not she has AS, the issue is surely is her behaviour acceptable & conducive to your relationship? My husband (we've recently separated) has AS & I suspect a work colleague has it too. Because of her negative behaviours I tend not to have much to do with her but I wouldn't bring up the issue of ASD with her - like your friend I don't think she'd accept she has a problem - others are always at fault etc. It's a sad situation but after my experience with my husband, I'm now working on treating myself kindly and can't at the moment take on someone else's problems. You sound kind-hearted & obviously care about your friend, but please think about yourself too.

It's very difficult in a social situation.

I am the first to say I know nothing about ASD but recently I met a client who was in serious trouble at work. It was obvious reading the (copious) papers he sent me that there was a huge mismatch between his perception of his behaviour and how he was perceived. He is a very intelligent man with a very successful academic career.

It was also obvious when I met him that his demeanour was, well, a bit "at an angle".

He was very very distressed at the work difficulties (beyond what I would normally see) and I pressed him to see his GP and to get a referral to a psychiatrist because of his distress. He was diagnosed AS. He is a man in his late 50s. At the end of it all, I think he was very relieved to have a diagnosis as he could see an explanation for lots of things that had happened to him.

So, going back to your question: no idea what to do re a friend who is "just" alienating people. I don't think you can push her in the way I described above.

It does make me sad to see so many references to AS being 'bad' and 'a problem'

The OP in fact points to many many good things about her friend

I know a few AS people who are brilliant - I mean lovely to know -

I don't know. I've always thought of myself as fairly nice and certainly not unkind, my difficulty is in perception of others' meanings and motives...and a lack of the usual social 'patterns' I suppose. It's not been fun, it's been terrifying at times, but I hope and pray that I haven't left everyone I've encountered with the impression that I represent a 'problem'.

I'm not unkind either Jumente- I do have soem empathya s well but I go toofar the other way- my issue can be in roportion: I acnt watch lots of things for example as I cant differntiate between the death of a baby in Africa and if my own were to die IYSWIOM- inappropriate. But I am nice generally. I'm hard work though- not able to do social chit chat at all, no real knowledge of how to maintain or create friendships.... people do form aquaintances with me because they come to know me as straight and caring,I might not be the sort of mate you'd take shopping (sadly, I do like it) but I am often the forswt one you'd think of in a crisis.

I am a loner thogh- I get yself so woulnd up trying to work out how I should apprioach someone just to say Hi that I end up skulking at the back of the playground.

jumente i feel the same - probably cos i have DS. he is funny and kind but can be selfish and annoying - but then hand on heart who is never any of those things?

its got me questioning myself a bit too,wonder how i am perceived sometimes.

its a bit sad that so many people are saying "say nowt and run for the hills" as it were. if she is a good friend and i valued anything in the friendship id have to say something. she may appreciate the honesty - aspies quite like direct. i know i hate any kind of game playing or guessing at things - i like cards on the table so to speak.

i know i have traits. and i know where i get them from, the aspergers is on my side of the family, though DS is the first to be dx.

sorry im off the point and rambling.

Thanks so much for sharing all your comments and insights, you've made me feel slightly less of a horrendous cowbag for even considering telling her my theory

I shall ponder further I think....