SO angry at myself! I fell for it again! Over a year on, and I still fell for the lies! Long...

[raggedtrouseredphilanthropist]

Basically, stbxh walked out on our family (ds was 1.6) for ow OVER a year ago. He to-ed and fro-ed between us for a few months, then I had enough and began moving on. Sold house, moved (he followed!), set up divorce etc etc.
Of course, I never wanted any of this to happen, and although I have moved on, and had a brief fling in the time (only one though, havent had time for more!), I do ultimately still watnt him to come back.
Now mess this up with some dv too. Only coming out of the relationship, I realised it was abusive. Not going into details, but mostly emotional, occasional physical. So, I KNOW I won't go back with him, but I guess I still love him.

Anyway, he is STILL lying. And I STILL let myself believe him! He has 'been trying to break up with her' but 'she won't let him' , and last week he got her to leave. allegedly. and then came the texts about how he wants me back, he always loved me, he needs to know I am moving on so HE can move on. etc etc. I shouldnt have engaged. But I did. I told him the only hope for us is if he did a Respect course. Then no more texts.

Anyway, picks up ds this morning and she is back! ARRRRGGGGHHHH!!!! Of COURSE she is!!! I am so stupid to think he might even have made the most TINY changes necessary for reconciliation. Of course, he says 'how can I come back when you want me to do x,y,z' (x being stop seeing ow, y being do a Respect course, z being stp being such a twat)
Exactly the same as this time last year!

I am angry at myself for still wanting him to change, belieiving his lies. Everything. I KNOW him! And I let myself fall in his trap.

SOOOOOOOOOOOO at MYSELF. I should never have engaged. But of course NOW I want to rant at him!

anyone been through similar? how did you stop believing?

I'm sorry you're going through this right now, but you're contradicting yourself. You admit he's been abusive so you "would never go back" - then you say "if you do a Respect course" (i.e., "change") you'd take him back. Finally, you get yourself in a right state because he's messing around with another woman.

Make your mind up! Do you want him back or don't you?

Obviously the sensible answer is NO!

But if it is infact yes, then stop dicking him around, sending out mixed messages and take him back.

Don't be at yourself for starters. You are obviously a good person who believes in second chances and giving people the benefit of the doubt.

But now you KNOW, KNOW for certain that he does not deserve this and never will.

How about if you write down everything thats happened, in the past and especially recently including exactly how you feel, so betrayed, SOOO angry at yourself etc so that any time in the future that you feel your resolve weakening you can go back and read it in full detail and get your blood boiling again.

No good ranting at him, he doesn't care.

What about some sort of pattern changing course? I have read on here before about women that have done them (I think womens aid runs them) and they seem to have been very helpful- might help with finally letting go of this one and making sure you don't pick a similar specimen in the future.

Best revenge on this guy? Live your life well.

I am not sending out mixed messages! I have been constant in what I would expect him to do if there was to be reconciliation. I have never told him otherwise. He knows I will not take him back without a LOT of work on his behalf.

But I know he WONT change, I don't believe abusive men DO change. But I do still love him, and so I WANT him to change.

I am not in a right state cos his is with ow still, I am pissed off at MYSELF for actually not having moved on, and letting him keep stopping me from moving on. For KNOWING he is lying, and still wanting to believe it. For still wanting him to change, although I dont really think he will. And ultimately for still loving him after how much of an arse he was to me.

ragged, sorry that you are going through this. Try not to be so hard on yourself. Of course you want/wanted him to change but he would have to want it more, speaks volumes that the texts stopped once you mentioned the Respect course. It will take a long time for you to stop loving him regardless of how he has treated you but ultimately you need to move on from this man.

oh ragged!
I don't think you are giving mixed messages at all. You obv love him and wanted things to work out, but his actions are showing you what a pipe dream this actually is. Don't be angry with yourself. Focus on the lies and the reasons why you know it won't work and use that to move forward. I used to dream about reconciling with my ex but only because I had the happy family blues - then he'd do something (like threaten to cut maintainance) which woudl remind me just what life with him was really like.
You stop believing once you have been through a few bouts like this, it just gradually fades away and your new life gets more real and better. It has been 3 years for me and I can now say things are truly fab still quite early days for you, the hold will lessen. Of course if we did not have to see them cos of dc they would be more easily forgotten.
Must be very hard, don't beat yourself up for listening to him, I would've been just the same.

what hottie and inspired said
puter is sooo slow this am

no,he won't change,you're right about that!

time to move on (properly this time)

are you prepared to have your ds grow up thinking this is how relationships are???

thanks for your kindness everyone!
ninah - the happy family blues. so true! You are right, it does fade. Gradually. Just each time I let myself believe him, it stops fading for a little while.

Right, so this is ultmately about acceptance isn't it.
Accept I still love him, and ultimately want him back (despite EVERYTHING, which I must write down to remind myself - great idea!). But know this will fade.

Accept he won't change. Although I will still want him to. You are right, the fact he doesnt think he NEEDS to do a Respect course speaks volumes. Pattern-changing course is a good idea for this one! Thanks hottie!

This will also explain the reason why I am so crap at dating - because, really, deep down, I still love him.

Yes, time to move on properly. Again.

ragged,now is the time to show him that you are in control. You need to show him that you can and will move on and that he can't play you any more. Let him be with the OW, he doesn't deserve you, you are far better than being with this low life scum.

Start by keeping contact to a bare minimum, do not engage in any way other than to deal with contact for the children and finances, probably best done by text then you can ignore anything else and just deal with what has to be done.

inspired - you are right, I need to not engage. I know that, but find it hard. He tells me what I want to hear, although we both know it is a load of crap.

For example, he tells me, he wants to know I have moved on so he can accept that, and move on himself. Bullshit I know! Really! I KNOW it is a load of controlling crap!

But I still think - 'ahhh, he hasnt moved on from me' (except by living with ow, but telling me he isn't and that he doesnt want to be with her! How stupid am I?!). 'There is still hope he will change'.

No there isn't. But if I hadn't engaged, I wouldnt be thinking that.

HOW can I still even WANT to believe it? HOW can I let go properly? WHY would I want him back? I don't want ds to think he has to be like his dad in future relationships. I don't want to be who I was over a year ago, unhappy and treading on eggshells.

So WHY do I still hope he can change?!

PLEASE has anyone any answer to that?

Its like I know it in my head, but my emotions take a while to catch up. Sorry for going on and on!

I am there with you ragged
love my ex too but can't live with him
actually it's more upsetting when they are nice
use times like this (lies) to remind yourself of the whole picture
the feelings come back stronger from time, of cousre they do, don't be angry with yourself about that, I like the idea of writing stuff down so you can keep hold of the true picture at times where you feel nostalgic
dating is hard when you compare with ex and old life, but it can take your mind off too esp if you date someone v different, someone you have no intention of settling down with, say. Meeting someone nice gave me a lot more confidence about appearance etc but work and dc remain a much bigger part of my life than he is, not making long terms plans etc
pop over to fit and interesing thread, you know you want to

ragged, you have been in a relationship with this man, be it good or bad, you have a child with this man, you would have had good times at some stage and no doubt you invested a lot of time, effort, energy and emotion trying to make your relationship good. It has been a huge investment for you and therefore no easy to walk away from, you wanted the dream to be real. That is why is so hard to disengage from it all but you must.

He won't accept that you can/will/have moved on even though he is with another woman. He will still want the ties with you and that is why you have to keep this almost business like.

this was me a while ago
I wanted him - but why?
you will have to let your head rule your heart for a bit, don't get angry with yourself for feeling that way, but just observe and counter it and wait ...
it will get better
sorrry puter still slow answering post 10.48 now

I don't think he does want the ties in any real sense
he is just used to ragged being head over heels for him and his ego likes to be reminded but tugging on her strings to see if she will still have him
not that he really plans to go back

ragged tell him yes, I have moved on! life is great! and think no more of it

look ow obv walked out on him ('got her to leave' pmsl) and he wanted an ego boost from you ragged
he was prob begging ow as well, who knows
he doesn't need help to get over you, he IS over you
you have to see that, even it it hurts

sorry to go on, just remembering how horrible this is. still in dressing gown so better go now in case someone comes to the door or something
take care, OK?

Sounds to me like he doesn't want you but doesn't want anyone else to have you either?

Right. Time to pull myself together (again). I have spent 2 hours now stewing angrily about him, instead of getting out on my child free day and doing stuff for ME.

Ok.

It's ok to still love him. But I know its pointless, and so I have to remnd myself that. so true about the enormous investment - I guess it's like spending your life savings on a dream house and finding out it is condemned, and there is nothing you can do about it.

Unfortunately, I was feeling together enough to spend the day on my own, doing things. Now I really want to be with a friend, but they are all out!

would you consider counselling?

ninah - thanks for all those postings! yes, he has no intention of coming back, he just wants me to want him. that hurts like hell, but it isnt news to me. I have to open my eyes. again.
And he is winning, it is working for him. Cos look who is STILL here stewing, when she said she wouldnt be!

Lewis - I am having counselling. I have come a LONG LONG way since last year, and should be proud ofmyself really.
No prizes for guessing what next week's session is going to be about!

"So WHY do I still hope he can change?!

PLEASE has anyone any answer to that?"

Maybe because when you met him he was very different to how he is now- if he was like this you wouldn't have got together with him- and you hope he will change back to being the person you fell in love with. Also he gives you glimpses of that person whenever he is nice.

But actually his 'nice' side is just the flip side to his horrible side- if he didn't have the nice side his horrible side would have to be there all the time and he wouldn't ever get into a relationship with anyone.

The horrible side is who he really is and the nice side is just window dressing to reel you in and give you hope.

Also you might feel like you are capable of change so he should be too? He is, but it is far too much work and probably involves intensive therapy, taking his whole personality to bits and putting it back together again, and why would he do that when he has OW, and the possibility of you?

It could also be because you might believe that if his love for you is anything like your love for him that that should be enough to make him change? Or sometimes (don't mean this in a bad way) it can be a bit powerful to think that we could possibly change someone else. But we can't. They can only change themselves.

Ragged - my ex (a prize shit, also DV) also pretended to leave OW, it was extremely painful.

Nine months on and I could never go, back, but the feelings are still there and I wont see him in case I weaken. Like you I am determined to move on.

You cant help your feelings, but you can decide not to act on them.
As you say, its okay to still love him.