Why can't he be supportive?

[sleepingwiththeenemy]

Hi lovely ladies.
I wanted to ask your opinions on something. I have been planning for about 2 years now to set up workshops for women in self confidence. Not the usual stuff, lots of emphasis on fun and laughter. I am a therapist by trade, and have also taken diplomas in counselling, applied psychology and sexual therapy. My idea is to offer workshops for women whose self esteem has been battered for whatever reason...abuse, toxic parents, parenthood or just life in general. It would include sessions on body language, flirting (not necessarily sexual, more in everyday situations) and also a session in maybe burlesque (fully clothed) or belly dancing etc...all things to make them aware of themselves as feminine and beautiful, how to deal with other people and turn situations to their best advantage.
I saw so many women in the refuge when I was in there who had amazing strength, that I just felt that I would love to be able to do something to put them back on top again.
So...I was discusiing this with my 'partner' (fairly new relationship) and was so unprepared for his response. I am apparently a man hating lesbian type, who is blaming all women's problems on men! It's sexist to offer the workshops for women only blah blah...
I am the least man hating woman I know! But I am also in complete awe of women's character and survival instinct. I told him that if the women's course went well I would develop one for men...that was wrong too as he said 'I wouldn't want you in a room with a dozen men who you've taught to flirt, all coming on to you'!!!!! I told him it wasn't flirting as he understood it and he then said 'huh, women get dressed up for men, they wear nice underwear for men etc'. I was furious....most women I know dress up for themselves!!!! And nice underwear makes them feel feminine.
Now he's trying to muscle in and control the whole thing! I have run my own business before (he hasn't) and I'm experienced in this field (he isn't) but he is now dictating who I should offer it to, where I should hold it, how I should market it....
I can't bloody win

I live in an area where lots of women literally wear pyjamas on the bus to take their kids to school, and they look so worn down and miserable and unhappy. They look like they've given up on life. A friend of mine usually wears trackies with her hair scraped back, and looks so much older than her years. Then one day she turned up in jeans and a really nice colourful summer top, and a touch of make up and she looked radiant, and more importantly she was more bubbly than usual. All because she felt nice about herself.

PT - not wanting to totally hijack sleeping's thread, but when has Gok done that? (lining women up to say "you're thinner than those heifers over there").

I'm sure sleeping does get the disconnect between 'beauty' and 'happiness'. Otherwise Marilyn Monroe would have been the happiest woman alive and not a complete fuckup, poor soul. And I think rather than 'flirtatious' she may have meant 'charming', which I think is a trait we find positive in both men and women?

But sleeping - I still don't get why you are with your DP. Life isn't meant to be an endurance test you know!

Princess....I agree about the line up. That's always made me squirm if I'm honest.
I'm not saying I need to get my hair done, or wear nice clothes. What I'm saying is that it makes me feel good...I enjoy it. Which is your point too. So I think we're singing from the same song sheet here but I've touched a raw nerve by making people think I am being superficial, which I'm so not. I am a size 16, but I am confident and don't give a rats arse what other people think about my size. I dress for my size, wear nice clothes and shoes and gte my hair done...becaise I enjoy it

Tribpot....you get me! You get me!!!!! Charming, yes. Absolutely, thankyou....that's the word I was striving for. Being pleasant, smiling and yes..charming. It makes for a much nicer day.
The relationship I am in is new, and not serious and I've been concentrating on the trial up to now. However, it is starting tomorrow and once it's over I can get my house in order.

The line up on Gok Wan...if a woman has hang ups about say her tummy, he will get half a dozen women in their underwear, most of which are bigger than the 'feature' woman. She will then place hrself in the line up where she thinks she fits in accordance with her size tummy. Inevitably she will be much smaller. What Gok is trying to convey is that women have a distorted and unfair view of themselves..what they see as unattractive others see as 'normal' (and don't jump on the word normal...I don;t mean it in a derogatory way).
But what I will say is that the women in the line up are SO proud of their bodies in it's many shapes and sizes and supremely confident, which is what makes them attractive. Again, the point I am trying to make.

PT I've never seen that so I assume not in his current show but it sounds more like trying to get people to be more accurate about their body size, not in a "thank fuck I don't look like that" kind of way and more in a "great so actually I could wear that kind of top if I wanted to" kind of way. The latest series has a range of fuller figured femmes putting some key clothing items through their paces and definitely not in a "well fucking hell Kate Moss doesn't worry about blouse-gapeage in Morrisons [although in fairness she wouldn't care anyway] so look at these sad hats".

Sleeping, we have courses at work that are not dissimilar to what you want to achieve (minus the burlesque bit!!) - influencing skills, self-confidence, self-motivation, leadership. Body language is in there too.

Apart from the merits of the course you have in mind, sleeping.., you really should try to examine why you have become involved with an abusive man (again?) before you try to help others. For the course, I really would consider focusing more on the mind than the body, although I can see where celebrating being a woman and having a woman's body and liking it would be a starting point -- better imo than therapies that offer some sort of a makeover, which reinforce the notion that there was something lacking in the woman. But a course would need to be carefully structured and include assertiveness, public speaking with confidence, and the order in which the areas are dealt with should be carefully considered.

But again, look into whatever you can find on the topic of patterns of abuse and why you are going for men who don't respect you.

PT my response on Gok was based on your description rather than sleeping's - and I agree it doesn't sound brilliant. I suspect why it has been dropped from the current show.

I do also agree with dittany - I post on this thread as a woman who has never suffered abuse and so my reactions are not as honed to the nuances. I think sleeping is right that we all need to learn ways to interact with each other as people, and I don't think she means abusees need to learn new ways to interact with abusers. I think she wants abusees to find the inner strength to deal with people as equals, after years of feeling like victims. So here for 'charming' maybe I mean 'self-confident'?

sleeping - I can appreciate how getting shot of a tosspot isn't your number one priority right now but equally, with what you are about to go through, is it worth having people around who are less than 100% supportive?

I have a feeling that some posters are almost deliberately ignoring the fact that I have reiterated many times that I am NOT talking about flirting in a sexual way...and I did admit that flirting is the wrong word completely. But as I seem to have hit a raw nerve I will also leave this post as I feel that some people are using it as some kind of crusade. I am the last person in the world to advocate rolling over for a man (or a man for a woman) and I am very strong willed and strong minded and am nobody's fool, hence me allowing OH to prattle on with his demands, without any of them being met. I am being lambasted for wanting to help women, I admire women and all I want is to see each and every one of them stand proud. There is nothing wrong with acknowledging the differences between the sexes...each has their strengths and weaknesses whilst also being equal. EQUAL. But there are some that don't share this viewpoint and I respect that. I will bow out gracefully now. x

Hi Sleeping,

Just making sure you're ok. You have shitloads to deal with at the moment- you don't need the extra hassle of trying to justify yourself on this thread when you have such an important day tomorrow. I think sometimes, especially when a bit vulnerable, you just need a bit of support rather than a myriad of opinions and advice which can happen online.

Forget about it. Get a good sleep and come back another time if you fancy it.

Sleep tight x

What womenfirst said. I hope everything goes OK today.

You don't need to win , just do it , it's yr plan and that's okay , he doesn't need to be involved. As a past refuge user I think it's a great idea, I'm doing a degree in occupational therapy to help such women too

This thread is four years old

RUN AWAY OP, RUN AWAY!!!

doh!