Why can't he be supportive?

[sleepingwiththeenemy]

Hi lovely ladies.
I wanted to ask your opinions on something. I have been planning for about 2 years now to set up workshops for women in self confidence. Not the usual stuff, lots of emphasis on fun and laughter. I am a therapist by trade, and have also taken diplomas in counselling, applied psychology and sexual therapy. My idea is to offer workshops for women whose self esteem has been battered for whatever reason...abuse, toxic parents, parenthood or just life in general. It would include sessions on body language, flirting (not necessarily sexual, more in everyday situations) and also a session in maybe burlesque (fully clothed) or belly dancing etc...all things to make them aware of themselves as feminine and beautiful, how to deal with other people and turn situations to their best advantage.
I saw so many women in the refuge when I was in there who had amazing strength, that I just felt that I would love to be able to do something to put them back on top again.
So...I was discusiing this with my 'partner' (fairly new relationship) and was so unprepared for his response. I am apparently a man hating lesbian type, who is blaming all women's problems on men! It's sexist to offer the workshops for women only blah blah...
I am the least man hating woman I know! But I am also in complete awe of women's character and survival instinct. I told him that if the women's course went well I would develop one for men...that was wrong too as he said 'I wouldn't want you in a room with a dozen men who you've taught to flirt, all coming on to you'!!!!! I told him it wasn't flirting as he understood it and he then said 'huh, women get dressed up for men, they wear nice underwear for men etc'. I was furious....most women I know dress up for themselves!!!! And nice underwear makes them feel feminine.
Now he's trying to muscle in and control the whole thing! I have run my own business before (he hasn't) and I'm experienced in this field (he isn't) but he is now dictating who I should offer it to, where I should hold it, how I should market it....
I can't bloody win

But you ARE falling into the same trap again. The person you have chosen for your current partner is controlling and unsupportive.

Frying pan, fire.

Nancy...I don't think he exploits women at all. To take a women who is feeling down on herself and build her up to a confident woman is fantastic. Yes, it makes good telly, but the fact remains that these women end up feeling far better about themselves than they did before.
I say again...this is NOT about relationships.

Nancy, the difference is I am not allowing him to dictate. he can try but I'm not allowing him to. Unsupportive yes...but I will still do what I want to do regardless of his opinion.
I agree absolutely that I seem to get involved with the same type of man in some shape or form, but the progress is that i recognise it and deal with it accordingly.

but the point is that you are WITH him.

the progress needs to be that you boot them out of the door at the first whiff of this behaviour, not that you ignore it.

Sleeping please read your own message again at 00.20.

Can you seriously not see where this relationship is headed?

I agree Nancy, yes. But before I would not have recognised it at all. So that is massive progress. And further progress is not giving in to his petulance. But yes, there is still a way to go but much lessthan before.

Sorry, cross posts Nancy. Yes I can see where it is headed if I allow it to but I don't intend to.

I'm not trying to preach to women what I can't live by myself. Which is why this isn't about relationships. It's about the particular woman and her alone.

it's a new relationship. he's an abusive bully who will only get worse.

Ditch him - feel the empowerment of doing that and take that along to your workshops!

I appreciate that you've come on leaps and bounds but sounds like there is still a way to go.

Good luck tomorrow.

And a lot of this work will be voluntary and/or means tested (before anyone accuses me of making money out of women who are already vulnerable)

Nancy,thanks .

I think the trial is a huge milestone...it has taken 2 years to get to court and is a week long trial, but once it is over will be when I can really put my life in order, tie up loose ends and really start again. Which will include relationships!

Sleeping, your motives are excellent and I don't doubt them one bit, but nor should you care if I do- you know they are good and true, that's all that matters. You don't have to justify yourself here or to your partner.

You are quite right that all those things would help a women feel and see herself as beautiful. The point I wanted to make was that being beautiful or feeling beautiful helps you feel confident and succeed in a world where beauty is prized. But is that the way it should be?

Lets say there is a woman living with a man who was very controlling when it came to money. You could teach her how to hide money for herself and how to spend it and hide her purchases so he wouldn't find out and get mad. Or you could help her realise that the whole set up stinks and she would be better off out of it.

That's what I'm trying to say about helping make women feel more beautiful. Being beautiful should not the be all and end all that it seems to be in our society, and a woman's self esteem shouldn't all come from the fact that she feels beautiful. IMO, it should come from her feeling strong, capable, worthy, compassionate, loving, all the things that make her feel proud of herself, her achievements and the way she conducts herself.

I think what I'm trying to say (especially in terms of helping survivors of domestic violence) is that what you might be doing is helping her jump through hoops, men's and societies hoops, when she has already spent a lot of her time jumping through her partners hoops so as not to make him mad. Get rid of the hoops.

Does that make sense? I don't even know myself!

Womenfirst...it does make sense and I agree completely. But I am not talking about physical beauty, I am talking about inner belief. Maybe that's the word I am looking for more than beautiful. Inner belief, and with that comes inner strength. Once a woman has that she will be in a far better place to deal with life's situations. That's all I'm trying to do. For them to be resourceful, self sufficient and strong. But if you don't like yourself you won't believe you are capable of any of the other things.
I certainly wouldn't want anyone (man or woman) to jump through hoops for anyone, that is soul destroying. I want women to have enough confidence in themselves to be able to say 'this is me, this is how I am and if you don't like it then that's your problem not mine'.

And back to the dance thing...the reason I chose burlesque or bally dancing is because they are solo dances which don't need a partner. I could have chosen salsa which I love but it involves having a partner and the whole idea is for women to do this for themselves. I could even have hula hooping classes, it really doesn't matter which one it is.

Belly dancing even, not bally dancing!!!!

Great that you have read the Lundy book, its very useful isn't it! You are quite right in your post when you said you are not allowing him to dictate to you, you are dealing with it accordingly. But how does he react when you stand up to him?

Does he get pissed off or does he recognise that you are absolutely right and he is being a controlling dick? I think that will tell you a lot about what lies in store for the future of your relationship. I mean, if he recognises your right not to give him your passwords and feels ashamed about asking and apologises then it is a lot different from him going in a strop and thinking you are being unreasonable. If he goes in a strop then I would be worried, or at least prepared to have a lot of battles because he isn't recognising your very ligitamate right to privacy and respect. If I was you I would read the bit in the book about "is he changing?" to work out where you think he's at.

Sorry my posts are a bit long, I keep missing your replies and what other people are writing!

Totally get what you are saying Sleeping. I would really encourage you to read the Beauty Myth book though, just for your own interest if anything. It really is very good and might give you lots of ideas for your courses.

Very much love and support for tomorrow too.
x

"But before I would not have recognised it at all. So that is massive progress. And further progress is not giving in to his petulance"

Agree that it is excellent that you have recognised the behaviour but find it hard to understand that further progress is not giving in. Would further progress not be to say, I don't need this in my life, this is wrong and I'm walking away?

sleeping - I seriously think it would be a really interesting exercise for you to ask the confident women of MN why they are confident and what gives them self esteem - then taking that along to your group.

I'm not keen on the old burlesque thing either I have to say - I'm annoyingly confident but I wouldn't want to dance or strip in front of strangers.

Need to run off for a bit but just wanted to add my own experience which might be of interest...

When I left an abusive relationship the next one I got into was a bit emotionally abusive too, kind of in the same way you're describing Sleeping but not quite as bad. I got a bit of a kick out of standing up for myself and proving to myself i could do it and I think in some way I wanted to test my new found self belief and self assurance. I did test it, it was alive and kicking. Then I left.

I have read the whole thread- OP if you ARE a therapist etc, I think you should be able to recognise your partner is being a dick.

Can't hear the kids yelling as the alarm bells are drowning out the sound.....

I think you sound lovely btw, I don't mean to be unpleasant.

Jeminthecellar....I DO recognise that he is being a dick! And as womenfirst says, it IS quite theraputic being able to air my views and opinions and refuse to give into his behaviour. So I think I am doing the same as she was and testing myself.
Nancy...like I said burlesque was just one of many options...I certainly wouldn't be asking the women to dance in front of or God forbid strip in front of anyone!!!!!
Dittany...as I said earlier I probably used beauty when I should have been using self belief...that is what I'm trying to encourage. I'm not for one minute suggesting that beauty, flirting and femininity are what gets you what you want. I really have worded this all wrong so once again...I'm trying to promote self belief and confidence in oneself

See...at the risk of getting shouted down here, I do believe that you feel a lot better about yourself if you are dressed nicely. I have gone out sometimes wearing leggings and a t shirt and felt horrible, whereas when I go out wearing nice clothes I feel much better and more confident. Is that wrong???? I agree that we shouldn't be judged by outward appearances, but surely that's no excuse for not making the best of ourselves? If appearances are so wrong, why do we go to the hairdresser? Or buy a new outfit for a night out (whether with girlfriends or on a date?) I don't get it.