How can I stop sex becoming a damaging issue between DH and I?

[KurtMummegut]

My DH and I are very happy. We love each other, make each other laugh, enjoy parenting together and I know he is the man I will be with until Death Do Us Part. However, our sex life is not great and I am starting to feel very sad that sex will probably never be a big part of my life.

A bit of history: I was raped when I was at university. After that I would tense up whenever men would try and enter me, even when I was keen for them to try. I never managed to have full sex again until I met DH. When we met I did not let him even try and have sex with me for 8 months. For the first four I found excuses and gave him oral sex to try and distract him. He was very patient. Then I felt he deserved to know that he was not the issue so I told him about the rape. He was lovely and never pushed me. Finally I agreed to try and it all went well. That was eight years ago.

Since then we have had enjoyable but unadventurous sex two or three times a month. DH never initiates, it is always me. For several years I was happy with this, I thought he was being considerate in light of my past and I figured neither of us had strong sex drives but we were well matched and equally happy with the frequency. However, in the last couple of years my sex drive has increased and his seems to have decreased. He still never initiates despite a couple of chats when I have encouraged him to.

We had DC2 10 months ago and have had sex only twice since then. Sometimes I hint at it and he pretends not to notice the hint but offers a subtle rebuff (like mentioning how exhausted he is). Last week I told him I regretted how little sex we had and said I wanted more sex, and more sex initiated by him. He said he felt the same but was just too tired at bedtime and wished we would have sex just after the kids' bedtimes. For five nights I have made sure I follow him to our room after the kids' are in bed and have waited for him to then initiate something. He has not done a thing. Tonight I feel so frustrated. I am desperate for him to show some interest and am left feeling undesirable. I am at a loss at what to do now. I do not want to initiate as he is clearly not up for it.

I think I have to accept that sex is never going to be a strength of our relationship. I hear of women who get so much joy from sex and am sad that I am never going to get the chance to be one of those women.

What would you do if you were me?

Paolosgirl, you are quite right when you talk about the hurt that affairs cause. We are reading about it on here everyday. It is not something I have ever contemplated because Dh and I are very happy together. But, having had some problems with our sex life, thankfully, now completely resolved to both our satisfaction, I really do feel it is unreasonable for one person to dictate the terms of that side of a relationship, without any thought for the other person. Whether that is because one person is demanding sex 'too' frequently, or whether one person is constantly witholding sex. Neither is satisfactory and I would hope that most times acompromise could be reached. But a compromise means that neither party gets everything they want, and I suppose that is what I mean when I talk about giving a gift. Sadly, if one person finds it impossible to make a compromise, I would call into question just how much they do love and respect their partner, if they are happy to deny them what is actually a fairly basic human need/desire. How can you claim to love someone yet think it ok to reject them so often? It seems utterly selfish to me, to say that 'I will not fulfill your sexual needs, or even compromise slightly, but I will not allow you to fulfill that need elsewhere'.

FWIW, I think that a health issue is somewhat different from the type of situation where there are purely mismatched libidos. Health problems often resolve themselves whereas mismatches probably don't.

No, that's right - the person with the low libido cannot be forced into it, and neither should they be, either implictly or explicitly.

I suppose it depends on why the libido is low. If it's a health reason, then heaping pressure on them to 'gift' (why does that term really bug me?!) sex or to have sex if they really don't want to will not help in the slightest, and will probably do more harm than good. It also can't be nice for the other person knowing that you really don't want to be having sex. If it's mismatched libidos then I think that's a different matter. It could be that they simply don't fancy you anymore, but don't want to admit it or split the family up.

Sometimes it's also down to 'if you don't use it you lose it'..it's hard with children and just life in general to find time to have sex ...more less do the act!..but I think it's very important esspecially if one of you is feeling sad about the situation.

DH and I talk about it and both initiate he works earlies so it can be hard to get him in the mood because he's so knackered but just talking about how we felt made us both appreciate where the other was coming from..be honest with your partner about how you feel..and try to come to a solution..

this one is a bit strange but sometimes it helps ...just so you know where you both are sexually...2 magnets on the fridge 1 for DH one for you and the more sexy you feel the higher on the fridge the magnet goes..when you are both at the same place then you or your partner feels happier to initiate without risking rejection...middle of the fridge might just mean a kiss & cuddle etc..goodluck

How about an 'open marriage' if the DH won't budge? At least that way nobody is going behind anyone's back. Different sex needs cause serious problems in the relationship as a whole, over time. Essentially in a case like this, one spouse has made what amounts to a unilateral decision that affects the other tremendously. Better from the pov of having a grown up relationship to point that out and suggest an open marriage as an acceptable alternative? This might even provide a bit of motivation for a DH to rededicate himself to his DWs happiness? Or at least wake him up to the seriousness of what's at stake.

mathanxiety you have said it so much more clearly than I! Whilst i really do appreciate how hard it must be to force yourself to have sex if you really don't feel like it, it just concerns me that it appears that it is always the 'refuser who has the upper hand in these situations and that it is perfectly acceptable for them to refuse sex whilst the other person cannot reasonable insist on sex. I still think that in these cases, the refuser does lose their right to a monogamous marriage.

Fortunately there are spouses out there who are willing to wait and to support the partner with the low sex drive rather than going outside the marriage . That really is heaping more pressure on - if you don't give it up then I'll have an affair? Charming...

Not disagreeing with you on that point Paolosgirl where the issue is solely due to illness and the person with the low libido is trying to get well again.

There are two parts of the Anglican marriage vows that cover the issue nicely. The first part:

'to have and to hold, from this day forward; for better, for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish, till death us do part'

That is what you are saying. No one should walk away or have an affair because their partner is ill.

The second part covers the long term commitment to a sexual relationship and the 'gift' that sayithowitis/2rebecca are talking about.

'With my body I honour you, all that I am I give to you, and all that I have I share with you,...

Both parts of the vow matter and place obligations on both people - it is not a pick and mix. The service also begins with words from the vicar that confirm why sex is portant in marriage.

'It is intended that with delight and tenderness they may know each other in love,
and through the joy of their bodily union
they may strengthen the union of their hearts and lives.'

This encapslates why KurtMummegut and others feel unhappy. I am not a religious person but these vows are not a bad starting point for discussion.

I agree - although the Scottish marriage vows use different wording.

However, what it does not say is that "and that they may strenghten the union of their hearts and lives and if your libido is low or if you don't give it up as often as your partner wants then the Church recognises you as being bullying and precious (I think have been 2 of the rather questionnable words used on this thread), having no right to be in a monogamous marriage, and hereby gives your spouse the permission to seek sex outside marriage

Don't forget though that the church only recognises sex within a heterosexual relationship, so are perhaps not the best ones to be giving advice - but that's another thread.

Paolosgirl - just to make it clear, NOONE is suggesting for one second that if a partner is ill or has a low libido due to stress, emotional upset, circumstances that the other person is entitled to an affair. Of course not, that's horrible and unsupportive and you're right, puts immense pressure and guilt on the other partner.

I think I (and some of the others) are talking about partner who have got a low libido for no reason and always have and always will and have no intention or desire to try and change it, thus forcing their spouse into a celibate marriage.

My husband has been like this for YEARS and YEARS. It's something we've discussed and tried to work out for YEARS and YEARS. It's nothing to do with illness or stress or upset..it's just the way he is and just the way I am.

I have spoken to him several times about having an open marriage so that I wouldn't have to 'lie' to him but he said no way, he doesn't want to have sex with me but he would go nuts if I slept with anyone else....

so where does that leave me and others like me?

Sorry, this isn't about me, i'm ok. I'm just putting forward my experience as part of the discussion.

I think perhaps some of the posts have used rather inflammatory and less than helpful language.

Every marriage is different, and everyone has their own reasons for low libido - it can't be lumped together as bullying, or controlling or simply being precious. I don't know what the answer is in your case - have you tried counselling, or has he been for tests? There is usually (always?) a reason for low libido, whether it's physical, or emotional, or simply a lack of love for the other person that you can't face up to. Sometimes these issues can be difficult to accept and sex can become the central issue, and almost that chicken and egg thing - who has more right? The person who wants sex or the person who doesn't want sex?

If you don't mind me asking - did you know that your DH had a low libido when you married him, or did that happen over time?

I am with justgaveup on this....
Unless you have lived this, and I mean really lived it.. you have no idea what it is like. I am in the same situation as justgave up, totally identical. It could be me writing, in fact.

Years and years have passed with me too. I object to paolosgirl imagining that people like me don't wait and hope and support. I spent the best years of my life waiting, hoping, supporting, trying. The heartache and hell I went through doing this, I can't put into words. Posting a glib statement... 'if you don't give it up, I'll have an affair... charming.' is NOT what it is like. It is not a choice made lightly.. it took over ten years for me to make that step and that is ten years of hoping, supporting, trying. Along with those adjectives there are plenty more words... heartache, desperation, crying, counselling, sleepless nights, rejection, fear, unworthiness, unfemininity, on and on...

Before anyone posts.. why not leave him, there are lots of words why also.

Justgaveup, I am so with you on this. Have a hug from me.

namechangealso..wow, your post has nearly made me cry.

have a massive hug right back...so good to know that i'm not alone

You are not alone justgaveup. I rarely post now but your posts struck such a chord with me, I had to.. just had to.

At no time have I said that I don't imagine "people like you don't wait and support and hope" - AT NO TIME. Please do not put words in my mouth. There have however been plenty of glib statements about people who have a low libido being bullying, being precious, or deserving an affair - none of which have been remotely helpful.

I have no idea why either of your partners do not want to have sex with you - but I hope sincerely that you can both find some resolution.

Fortunately there are spouses out there who are willing to wait and to support the partner with the low sex drive rather than going outside the marriage . That really is heaping more pressure on - if you don't give it up then I'll have an affair? Charming...

This is your post and I apologise if I have read it wrong... as you can maybe understand it is a touchy subject with me. That post just intimates that I have not waited and supported, but have just gone 'outside the marriage' without trying. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

Actually I was referring to my own situation with DH a few years ago, who said that the thought of having sex with someone else broke his heart, and that he would rather stay with me and not have sex than have sex with anyone else. I apologise - I should have made that clearer, but I certainly didn't say "people like you" - I have no idea who you are!

I do consider myself very fortunate - if he had gone outside the marriage as some of the earlier posts said he had every right to do through my "bullying" and being "precious" then we would have been another statistic and the kids would have gone through a divorce. I would have lost my husband, best friend and lover (as he is now!), but I appreciate that your situation is different as it's gone on for years.

you know what? I think some of us have got into this discussion out of interest and to offer experience and maybe help and we've ended up getting wound up ourselves over our own issues.

Where's the original poster gone?
Has anything in this discussion helped you?

Wonder if she's gone off thinking...'well cheers girls for taking over my post...'

(a smile for us all, no matter what boat we're in, we're women and gorgeous!!)

Agree - probably hit each others raw nerve! Probably also haven't really helped the OP, so I do apologise sincerely for the hijack

(a smile back to you - we are gorgeous, aren't we!)

Yes, I felt the same. I sensed from the tone of your later posts Paolosgirl there was something very personal behind them as your clarification post has now revealed. Wow! That is quite a discussion to have had with your DH and illustrates the intense emotions evoked by this issue. I am glad to read you got through it with DH and are very happy now.

Almost all of the posts have been very personal. That is what MN is about. Personal experiences are not hijacks. When I first came to MN I was struggling with my own low libido and lurked for a year just reading other people's experiences. It was largely as a result of what I read on MN that I eventually tackled the issue myself. I still do struggle from time to time with it and feel similarly strongly about it.

Hope the OP comes back too.

I sincerely apologise for the hijack also...when it is a subject close to your heart, a person can get carried away.

just gave up and namechange also I wasted alot of my marriage and my peak years waiting for a partner who also said that dcs put him off and he was tired. refused point blank to seek help or talk about it. It destroys you.

I would have certainly gone elsewhere had the opportunity arisen and agree that an affair is 'justified' in this type of situation.