I've always known DH is a tightwad but...

[AnnieLobeseder]

...I've found out this evening that he has no pension!

My DH is incredibly tight, whenever I suggest we buy anything he say we can't afford it. He's had the same clothes for the whole 10 years I've known him, never wants to go out - he just hates spending money on anything. I try to be careful with money but also feel that life is for living and don't think an occasional indulgence is a bad thing.

When we go overdrawn and I ask him to help me budget, he just mutters about cutting up my debit card. Not sure how he thinks I'll do the food shopping!

Mostly I just let it wash over me, cos his attitude does tend to reign me in when I get caried away and start to think about spending too much on stuff we don't need - we balance each other IYSWIM.

But I never ever thought he would let his tightwad attitude jeopardise our future. He's always tight cos he's careful, and wants us to save, get out of debt etc, which is a good attitude to have. So why the fuck has he not taken a pension option at work!?!?! He says we can't afford a pension. But we save spend money on all kinds of things that aren't essential, like Sky, gym membership, and still manage to break more or less even each month. If I'd had any idea that he wasn't paying into a pension because we didn't have the money, I'd have found a way to budget it in!

He like to play martyr on all kinds of levels, and make out that things are worse than they are. But I'm absolutely flattened by his thinking that he can play martyr with our futures. He's the main breadwinner, it's his pension we'll be living on when we're old. If he doesn't want a company pension, which I've heard can be dodgy, fair enough, but he should have organised something!

I've tried talking to him and he just says we can't afford it and having enough to eat in the present is more important than the future. But we're not frikkin' starving! We might have to budget a bit more but we can afford to plan for our future!

It's more the fact that he didn't even tell me. It never occurred to me for a minute that a man who is usually the poster boy for responsibility could be so totally irresponsible and selfish, while painting it as being selfless to the family cause. I've never been so angry with him, and don't know how to sort this out. He just keep shrugging and saying 'we can't afford it' when I try to rationally explain why we need a retirement plan. I'm a very short fuse away from losing my temper and screaming at him.

He's 36, btw, and I'm 35, with both of us not even starting out careers until our early 30's so we're kinda short of time to secure our future as it is, not early 20-somethings with loads of time!

How can he not get it!?!

You wouldn't be angry if your DH saw Sky TV as more important than a retirement nest egg?

But I have come to the conclusion that what's done is done, I'm going to have to suck it up and calmly and rationally discuss ABetaDad's suggestions with him.

And breathe....

I don't know the details of DH's pension, ABetaDad. And he's not speaking to me so I can't ask him now!

Annie Whilst I understand your argument in that you're currently a SAHM and so he has financial responsibility for all of you... this I believe would be absolutely fine if you weren't worried... As it stands, this potential financial instability and/or insecurity does bother you - this is why you need to take care of yourself financially!

I am very jumpy about money myself - and I know deep down that nobody but nobody owes me anything - and if I want to know I'm OK then I need to take care of it.

Betadad I'm glad you have echoed (more politely! ;) ) my thoughts on pensions - although I do think it's sad that your thoughts were believed more than mine. sigh If only more women were to take an interest in the financial world and stop relying on their husbands I@m sure they'd be happier.

'You wouldn't be angry if your DH saw Sky TV as more important than a retirement nest egg?'

No. No, I wouldn't.

No I wouldn't be angry

I'd certainly discuss it with him and be interested in his reasoning but I don't see what flying off the handle about it would achieve.

sikhorse - group company pensions have been a joke for years. Me and DW never contributed to our company pensions but asked instead for the companies to put contributions into our private schemes which we now run ourselves.

What was really revealng was that when we asked for them to contribute cash to our private schemes they would only put 2/3 of what they supposedly put in the group comany scheme. Told us everything about the reliabilty of what company schemes were promising 10 - 20 years ago. Never was sustainable.

The person I most admire on this issue is Ros Altman. She is a woman who says show it really is and has huge technical knowledge but is not listened to enou. She is the person who should be selected by a new Conservative Govt along with Frank Field MP and Vince Cable MP to deliver a naional pension solution as it is a crisis waiting to happen. Women wilL be the most badly affected as they lIve longer than men and have the least good pension provision either private or state.

i agree that everyone should take an interest and successive Govts have ignored it for decades as a 'too difficult to solve' problem. The rising value of houses has shielded recently retired peple from the full effect as they have been able to cash out the equity in their hosues and downsize but now that game as stopped many people are very exposed. Young people will never have pensions in my view and and those retiring in the next few 10 years will face a serious decline in personal standards of living in retirement unless they are among the lucky few with big well funded private or civil service pensions.

Um, skihorse, since I have no idea if you're a man or a woman, I put more faith in ABetaDad's suggestions because a) they were more comprehensive, and b) he identified himeself as a financial advisor. Don't look for slights where there are none.

And excuse me, but I'm the one running the family finances, not DH. I take financial respnsibility for both of us, since we are a partnership. And I expect the same from DH. He had no right to make a unilateral decision like that without discussing it with me, since it affects both of us.

regardless of all the pros and cons of pensions, if his company contributes, he's basically throwing away extra salary. Also, by joining the scheme, you often get Death In Service benefits, up to 4x salary. Plus, there are the tax benefits.

Annie We all make our choices. If you want financial independence but wish to be at home and not pay for childcare then you must look for nightshifts so your husband can take care of the child when you work.

Sorry if you don't like that, but this is life. This what taking responsibility for yourself means. If you want more money you have to make it.

Damned right I'll judge you when you say you take responsibility for the family finances - so actually it's YOU who pays for the gym, sky tv, etc., etc. - and presumably as you're in charge you check his payslips for contributions right? And then you cry because you see that Prada-coated retirement slipping away... ?

[ignores skihorse for sake of blood pressure]

[Decides not to ignore skihorse]

Skihorse, I said I was angry because our retirement was in trouble, not because I want/expect more money now. So fuck off now please, there's a dear. You're deliberately twisting what I say, though I have no clue as to why. But I've had enough of you now.

If you work for the civil service you should have the option of a great pension surely.

A lot are changing from final salary to defined contribution but I don't know if this is true of the civil service. But you definitely want someone else putting in as well as you!

I'm not sure what's wrong with depending on your husband's pension. If you don't work for money, what else do you do?

The Daily Mail had a campaign for improved pensions for women who don't work outside the home but I can't remember the details.

Skihorse has an axe to grind I think.

I would be a bit stuck without my husband's pension. But I've worked as hard as him so not sure why that should even be an issue?

Annie, skihorse's 'GFA' remark wasn't on, but really, nor is your response for him/her/whatever.

It's not on to tell people to fuck off or fuck you because they express another point of view. I can see why you'd want to, I get called all kinds of things myself on here.

You are way wound up and totally out of control incandescent.

It's frightening, tbh, because skihorse did bring up the salient point that you are apparently in charge of all the family's finances, yet are completely enraged to teh point where your spouse and you weren't speaking for a wee while, over this.

It's not going to lead to a rational discussion about matters.

Best of luck.

If as you say neither of you started your careers up until the last few years ago, I would have expected you to have discussed pension options together.

If you control the family finances how coes you have only just realised he has no pension?

As an aside from all of that I think you have been incredibly rude and owe Ski an apology.

ski horse seems a bit OTT but when people say that they can't work because of the cost of childcare it's bit of a red herring / putting the cart after the horse has bolted.

Because of the cost of childcare I had a gap between my two dcs so we could pay for one until they transferred to state primary school and then started paying for the other.

Maybe that was overplanned but circumstances dictate.

This was because we could not afford to live on one wage and because I had always wanted to work out of some sense of not wanting to completely rely on another and for the long term outlook.

So presumably if you decide to have two close together then you have chosen not to work rather than the other way round.

I would not have been happy if my now exH had not signed up for company pension but wouldn't have thought it was his responsibility to provide for me in my old age. It's a moot point now as we are divorced. Luckily I have a final salary pension (as long as that remains safe)

To OP - were you thinking of returning to work at any time in the future? Because perhaps you can build up a pension that way.

Annie - I just wanted to consolidate and slightly clarify my earlier posts in light of what you have further posted and what others have said.

If you or DH is contributing 100% of the cash contributions to a personal pension and you also have debts and no savngs I woudl stop and just use the cash to pay down debt and build up a small rainy day cash lump sum.

If you or DH have the possibility of getting a civil service pension by working then yes that is a goo dthing aespecially so if you are not expected to mae any contrbutios yourself.

If your DH has a possibility of a company pension and he just has to tick a box and DH does not suffer a reduction in salary or need to make any cash contributions then yes he shoudl do that. If he has forgotten to tick the box it is often the case that he can retrospectively do it and in effect join now but the scheme administrators may be still willing to assume he really joined when he started the job.

If DH has to make 100% of the contributions out of his own salary or a substantial part of the contributions and the company puts little ot nothing in the question is more complex. It may not be worth it especially if it is not a final salary scheme and there are no other life insurance (death in service benefits).

DH may have very good reasons for not joining the scheme but you are right to feel unhappy as this should have been a joint family finance decision.

I am not an IFA. I actually invest money on behalf of my family so I know how poorly many investment managers run pension funds.

Crumbs. Nothing to do with op, sorry, but how would I manage if it wasn't my husband's responsibility to provide for his "family" in old age? If he wasn't working I'd do it for him. This is really new to me.

ABD you are interesting.

expat - yes, I know I over-reacted to skihorse but the whole 'get a job' thing is my personal bugbear because I am (or was, since I was offered a job yesterday ) a StuckAHM, as I said, watching my career go down the crapper because of childcare. So I tend to get very very wound up over it when I HATE being at home would far rather be at work.

But, I have done that discussion to death on other threads. Since this is posted in relationships, I had intended it to be about DH's breach of trust, not about how to improve our financial situation. Though thanks to all who have made constructive contributions.

I would say that you need to concentrate on your civil service pension - find out whether you can "buy" years in it or whether there is any way you can increase it. These sorts of pensions are the best possible pensions.

YANBU to be angry with your DH - he is a donkey.

Annie, have you got a pension? It sounds like you would be better off getting the pension than him. My father got himself a public sector job at the age of about 50 and pumped ludicrous amounts of money into his final salary pension knowing that the rate of return was incredibly generous and far better than anything he'd get privately.

How can you not have known this?
If you are in charge of the finances, do you not see his payslip and the bit where it says 'Pension contribution'?