What would you do? Advice please! *Long*

[emmabemmasmom]

Sorry in advance for the length of this.

Background. DH and I used to be madly inlove with eachother. We fell pregnant with our first DD within 2 months of being married. We both agree that this was way to early but would not change it now. We just had another DD (3 months).

He has never said anything to hurt me or upset me although we have had our fair share of arguments over silly things.

In January he went out for his dad's bday. He never came in until 4:30am and text me the whole time saying he was waiting for a taxi, loved me, see me soon ect. Next morning he was asleep on the couch. I picked up his clothes and shoes and his phone fell out of his pocket. It was turned off so I went to turn it back on for him. He woke and saw me and lept up trying to get the phone from me. We have never had secrets. He uses my phone all the time and I use his. So immediatly I was thinking what the hell does he have to hide? Turns out he had gone out, taken his ring off, made up a story that we were divorced and kissed 2 girls, got thier numbers and text them thru the night. He rode home with one in a taxi and walked the rest of the way home. I was torn apart by this. He told me he did not love me anymore and that he was leaving. I love him so much and since he had never ever done anything like this before I knew something was wrong. We have had a lot of stress and I think he needs help although he does not see it. So we talked a lot and in the end I am not proud but I begged him to stay and work on things. We went to councelling and he cried and said he did love me and he does not know why he did what he did. We moved on...

Then...he had a bad day at work on Wed. Said he wanted to go for a walk so he left after the kids were in bed to clear his head and think. I proposed the idea of him going back to school. He came home and said we would talk tomorrow (thurs). Thursday he comes home and we are all lovey and kissing and made plans for a date night in the house Friday. I get in the shower and he gets in with me. We start talking and he is telling me about his ideas and 5 year plan ect. Said the scary thing was that he wondered if we would be together in 5 years. I said why do you think that? He said that he has not felt close to me the last few weeks (I am on anti-dep for PND so it has not been easy living with me but I am getting the help I need and trying to be me again). I agreed that we have not been as close. We got in bed and cuddled up and I said well if we keep going the way we are and not doing something about it then there is a possibility we wont make it for 5 years. I asked him if he still loved me and wanted to maybe make a plan so get close again. He said he didn't. He said he loved me, but he didn't. He wanted to leave. I was shocked as 30 min before we were in the shower together and talking about our date the next night! We talked and cried and he ended up back in bed with me. He kissed me and I cried thinking maybe it was the last time we would kiss. He came home from work early on Fri to talk. He said that he feels like he has failed at everything he has done and he knows we won't last so it would be easier to leave now. He said I deserve better, he is holding me back ect. I told him I love him for him and not what he does. I don't want him to leave. I could not live without him and I hate that guy has this hold over me but that is how it is. I think he is really confused and possibly depressed since I have been. After a lot of talking and crying we ended with the fact that we love eachother and our kids and we did want this to work so we are going to try everything we can. He said on new years eve we will decide. I had to agree with him to make him stay and work on things. He said he didn't want to hurt me anymore. I said he hasn't hurt me yet but if he left then he would.

I just hope that I have shown that this is not my DH at all. The only reason I am still head over heels for him is because I know the man I married and I know he is still in there and I want him back. Because he goes from one extreme to another in a matter of days is what makes me think he needs help. Last Friday we went out and were like love puppies making everyone sick watching us! Then the next friday he wants to leave? I can't make him get help and talk to someone unless he realizes there is a problem and wants help.

So what do I do? What if he decides to leave New years? How can I get him help without pushing him? Otherwise we have a perfect relationship. We hardly argue and we love our kids. We laugh all the time, and we enjoy time together, we just dont much time with 2 kids under 2. I am so confused...

Thanks for reading and sorry so long again!

This is ridiculous.

This is a classic case of man feeling de-placed by arrival of babies, saying "poor me, poor me, what about meeeeee?"

ABetaDad - sex?? FGS she has a three-month-old baby! My stitches had barely healed by then and breast-feeding just removes all desire - it just feels like you are supposed to be physically available to everyone, and then your DH wants a piece of you too.

I clearly remember getting my libido back quite strongly when I started to drop breast feeds at six months.

OP - your DH is being utterly selfish and this is what I would do:

Say, OK then bye bye. And if he comes crawling back later on, then set some very clear boundaries about what YOU want from the marriage and what YOU expect from HIM.

Seriously, your respect for him is going to ebb away if you let him carry on like this.

dollius - I am not saying what is right or wrong here. It seems sex is part of the equation from what the OP says.

I am trying to see it from both sides. That is how relationshops work. Not just the "I am a woman breast feeding, I am a woman with PND" point of view but I am a man who is uncertain about where I stand in repsect of my wife and her feelings for me.

Agree with Betadad.

Well, I don't. It's still self-indulgent crap from the DH.

I am not in any way thinking that it is a one sided thing and that I am so perfect and he needs help. I agree with Betadad that the physical side of things has slowed down and I am willing to see that it could have caused us to feel farther apart. However, dollius also has a point that yes, I did just have a baby and yes I am BF. I am trying everything I can to stay close to my DH but some days it is not that easy. I would have thought that he would understand and not be like this. I am also trying to see it from both sides and trying my hardest to understand. If there is anything I can do then I will do it. But, it does take two and he needs to fix his issues too. I always tell him how much I love him and I always tell him how much I appreciate him. Any time he does anything, even changing a nappy I say thank you, not because I have to, but because I am thankful for what he does no matter how small.

He text me last night and said good night and hopes I sleep well and that DD1 went down well. I text good night, DD2 did too and hope you do too.

Have not heard from him today yet. I don't want to play games but I am trying not to call him even though I am dying to talk to DD1 as I miss her but I want to give him his space.

dollius Also, in regards to what you said about letting him leave: I wish I could. I wish I was that strong. I still love him and need him and I am not willing to accept that this could be it. If he is going to walk out then he needs to do it, not because I told him to. If he never came back I could not live with myself knowing I am the one who told him to leave. My girls will grow up and know that I tried everything. But believe me there are moments I am tempted and I can totally see where you are coming from. Even his dad told me to pack his bags and he was not worth it...

Phone and speak to your dd. I certainly would.

Don't be grateful for whatever he does, however small, they are his kids too!

Really sorry but I am with Dollius on this one. From what I read here I really think you need to stop catering to this and just get on with things. I know it is so, so hard to do and so easy to give advice but knowing what I know now having been somewhere similiar, you really have to put yourself and dc first and stop buying into it. Why isn't he sure about you and your fabulous dc? Why is he drooping about moaning about how different everything is and he doesn't know what he wants? Because he is being self indulgent and putting himself first. Its not easy to stay close as a couple because there are two other people in your family now. You seem to be trying to work hard enough for both of you. This is no good. I feel gutted for you, I truly do, suffering from PND and having to deal with this too.

You don't have to tell him to leave. Just stop buying into it. Focus on looking after your children and then give him the normal amount of attention that couples need to have once dc have been taken care of. Its up to him then isn't it?

But please stop all the talking and asking whats wrong, he is not telling you anything and you are getting hurt by him not communicating with you. I know of what you speak, I promise I do.

emmabemmasmom - one more thing I thought of is to tell DH's Dad to stay out of the way.

TBH, I am astonished that he told his son he would be no longer welcome in his house if DH left you and the next minute telling him to pack his bags.

Also this comment is very telling. "He said that he feels like he has failed at everything he has done and he knows we won't last so it would be easier to leave now."

Has his Dad told him he is a failure? My Dad told me that when I was 16 and that I would never make anythng of myself. I have never forgotten it - and it was not true then or now. Is your DH constantly trying to prove himself to his father? That can totally undermIne someone and lead to depression.

The pressure of your baby arriving, the pressure of your PND and what sounds like a stressful job and perhaps the feeling he is now the main breadwinner could all be adding up. It may not be something he can 'tell you about' because he does not really know why he feels the way he does if there are multiple accumulating causes.

I think you and and DH need to stop talking to the father figure hovering in the background and talk to each other. You need to tell DH that the only two people in the world that need to matter to him are you and the baby and those are the only people he has to prove himself as a 'man' to.

I agree with others, this must be incredibly hard to handle with PND but TBH you sound pretty confused too about the way you feel. You both need neutral support from someone who is not an interested or involved family member.

betadad His dad has never said he was a failure no. However, he has always told him that he has more potential and is smarter than he thinks he is. He has always tried to tell him to go to school. DH feels pressured by this and he told me he is not smarter and this is it. What you see is what you get. I think the thing is, DH has no education and he has a labour job. He was in the Army for awhile and when he came out he was full of dreams and goals. He took whatever job he could get and he is still there. I of course want to see him happy and if that is working where he is forever, then so be it. But, if he wanted to go to school then I would support that 100%. I on the other hand have an education and gave up my career to move here. I am only a few credits away from my masters so was talking about going back to school in Jan to finish that. He was supportive. He keeps saying he is holding me back and I deserve better. I think maybe he feels that when I achieve what I want and get back on my feet that maybe I would leave him as he does not feel good enough, which is sad. Again just my thoughts trying to figure this all out. I still don't know...

Well I came home yesterday afternoon. FIL took DD1 overnight for the first time. Interested to see if she would sleep there and it worked great so looking forward to maybe do that once a month.

We have done A LOT of talking, which can be good but also bad. I feel like everytime we get once step forward we go two steps back. I am no closer in figuring out what exactly is going on in his head other than he is feeling very stressed. He said he is going to stay and work on things. He spoke to the HV today and he says he is going to go to a councelor on his own. Hope he does. Last night we had a lot of quality time together and even had a bath together. I am finding it hard to be intimate with someone if I don't know if they love me or not. I do want to...but it feels cheap if that makes sense? This is like high school if you ask me!

Funny enough, after I left on Sat DD1 was playing with the laptop which I left on the table. I don't know how but this thread came up and DH saw it. He read it and told me when I came home that he did. I told him that I have nothing to hide and that I would not have posted anything I would not have said, or have not said, to his face. He felt weird reading about himself but I was happy he read it and I think it gave him some things to think about. I also think it was good for him to see how I really feel as I would not hold back on here. He felt bad for seeing it and then for reading it as he said he knows this site is personal to me. Glad he told me though. Shows a new path of honesty.

He is away playing snooker with a friend tonight as he felt he needed some time away. I can see his point but also felt he should give it a few days and focus on us. Then again I could use something to take my mind off of all this for 10 min too. He got babies to bed first though which was nice.

Oh also RE work/school thing...if he has a bad day at work and comes home all upset I try to help him see that he has options. I am not trying to push him in any one direction but just trying to help him see his options and know I would support him no matter what he decided as I just want him to be happy. He told me he felt pressured to go to school and that I wouldn't want to be with someone who was not bettering themselves. This is not true and I have told him this. I did not realize I was coming off pushy. I thought I was being helpful in showing him that his happiness is what matters to me. I hope he knows that...

For what it is worth, wed he had one of those bad days. We spoke and I told him about school option. He agreed it was an idea. I said maybe this is a good time to look inside yourself and try to figure out what you would like to do that would make you happy. He said he would like to think and so that is when he went for his walk. I thought he was thinking about what going to school would mean life/money wise. So the next day when he was talking about his thoughts I was shocked that instead he was thinking about us and not being happy...

Today my old DH is back. He is cuddly and attentive, laughing with me and we are in perfect harmony...Feel like I am about to loose the plot. I am so confused...

That's because he is blowing hot and cold on you. You don't need this - you have a toddler and a baby to look after. And you have been ill.

I think you need to tell him to make a decision and stick by it. Tell him you are not going to allow him to force you to make the first move. You will not allow him to put you in the position of being the "bad guy" who called time on the relationship.

If he continues to mess you around like this, you must start telling people what is going on. Make sure he can't blame you.

It is only a short time in the grand scale of things that you need to focus somuch more on your babies than on him. Why can't he just let you get on with it for that short time?

These are HIS children that you are nurturing FGS. He should be grateful to you and thinking how amazing and wonderful you are.

Sorry, but all those who say, Yes but you have to understaaaaand how HE might be feeling. Bollcks. My DH would never dream of being as selfish as this. He needs to be supporting you at the moment - that is what relationships are about - the person who needs support getting support, and then giving support when the other one needs it more.

And, sorry, but a man wondering "where he fits in" after the birth of his own child is NOT as important a problem as a woman who has post-natal depression and is trying to breast feed a baby and manage a toddler.

FWIW Dollius I agree with you too. Think Betadad's was a good explanation though of why he might be behaving as he is.

Thank you everyone for all the advice and support. It is very hard to put things in action if your brain is saying one thing and your heart is saying another.

Update: My old DH seems to be back. I don't think this is right. I asked him yesterday if he had done any thinking. He said yes, he wants to stay and his mind is telling him to stay but he said there is something in him telling him to think about it and that he should leave. I don't get it. So I said, ok, well will I have to just wait until you decide and then drop the bomb? He said that he would tell me his decision.

I did not like that answer but ok, left it at that. Later I was in the shower and something in me snapped and I said I couldn't do this anymore. I came out and asked if we could talk. I told him that 'I couldn't do this. I could not go through everyday trying to be the best I can and work so hard when you may leave anyway. You either love me and the girls for who we are, ups and downs, or you don't. I know I have been a pushover the last few months but I won't be anymore. You need to decide what you are going to do now and stop playing games. You are killing me and it is not right. I love you and want you to stay. I have told you this and you can take it or leave it but I am not going to go through my days like everything is fine and have you leave in a few days/weeks. So whats it going to be?'

I think he was a little stunned as he just stayed quiet. Then he said 'Can I see someone first like therapy?' So I said well if you want to see someone then that means you want to work on it. If you see someone it should be long term...a few weekly sessions and then maybe once a month and take it from there. I said if you go to see someone once or twice and then give up, there is no point so you may as well leave now. If you want to see someone then you are working on your issues and I will support that. He said that he would work as hard as he could and he wanted to stay for us and not because I am making him. he said he will stick with the therapy and see how it goes in a few months time. He said he would talk to me more and not let his stress pile up. He said he loved me and the girls and he does not know what is wrong or why he is feeling the way he is but he does not want to feel this way. I told him I understood how hard it must be for him and that I am always here for him but he needs to get help and not take it out on his family anymore. I need to be strong for my girls and stand up for myself. He agreed and said he would make calls today to find out who he will see and get himself an appointment or on a waiting list.

I hope it works...

I am really sorry to say this (truthfully - as my best friend has just gone through similar with her DH who she worships) but...if he is saying he is so unsure and has to make a decision whether to go or stay whatever millions of reasons he/you give for his confusion he either
a) Has someone else, even a flirtation at work that might not involve mobile phones or physical intimacy yet. I believe behind nearly every 'wobbling' partner lies a 'someone else'
b)Is very manipulative and wants to get you where he wants you and enjoys feeling so desperately wanted/needed
c)Wants to leave you but is too scared of making a mistake, regretting it and hurting you.
Very possibly all 3.
I hope this doesn't sound too harsh and I have read all your posts,so I'm not ignoring all the intricancies of your situation.
I've just seen this before with lots of people.
btw my best friend decided to stay and they are happy to a large extent 2 years on but the 'I could leave you one day' hangs over her head and he explicitly and implicitly perpetuates that IMO
I'm sorry for your pain
ps I'm quite new on MN so don't know protocol re replying to emotional threads if you don't know OP so apologies if unwanted opinion!

boyngirl No, it is fine. I welcome all opinions and thoughts. Although some may be hard to read, I am sure everyone knows that they don't know everything. Only me and DH know the whole story and you all can only take my word that I know the real DH and this is not him. I know he is not seeing someone or even fancy someone else. He works with men only and I did ask. He said no and I believe him. There are no other signs leading to this and he told me other things in a moment of complete honesty and there would be no reason for him to not say. Also, he knows that would be it so wouldn't he tell me to make me hate him and force him to leave and make it easier for himself? He is no way a manipulative person either. I have known him for over 5 years, married for 3 and only in Jan did he start this when we had just moved house, had our 14 month old and I was 6 months pregnant. He is such a pushover really. He hates confrontation and will let anyone say anything to him and he will just take it. Which is why sometimes we have a hard time communicating because it feels like a one way conversation. I do think that at this moment in time he does think part of him wants to leave. He said it would be easier that way. I don't know how it would be and when I ask he does not know either. He said he is really stressed out and has a lot on his shoulders and he just wants to run away from everything so he can breath. I can totally relate to how he is feeling, but you can't just run away. Nothing will be easier it will get harder. And talk about stress? It would be even more stressful if he did leave. I know that it would be a mistake and he would regret it and he knows that once he leaves that is it. He says he does not want to hurt me anymore and because he does not know what is wrong he is afraid of hurting me again. I told him he has not hurt me yet because I know this is not him, but if he leaves then he will do the most hurtful thing of all. I think he is finally realizing he has issues he needs to work on as it has been a week and he is still full of 'I don't knows' for all questions...so he does not know why he is thinking the way he is. I just want my DH back and I don't care what I have to do to get him back but I won't be walked over anymore either.

Sorry for such a long reply lol

Of course you know him and I don't - you are right. I do trust you on that! And you don't need to defend that, you've enough to wrestle with. All you can do is trust those instincts.

You can bet your life he will regret it if he decides to leave - most guys do. Grass ain't greener. In a way (an awful way) might it better for him to make that decision and realise his mistake, although that would be very painful and disruptive for u and family.

As I said about my BF (sorry to harp on about her) they are surprisingly happy now though she doesn't fully trust him on many levels. I always tell her at least they have a very 'real' relationship where they've tested marriage to very limit and lived thru it.
In her case however he IS manipulative and sneaky.

I hope you can resolve this, it must be terribly stressful for you.

He did say that he thinks that the trust is to far gone now and does not know how I will ever trust him again. I told him that he would have to show me that I can and in time I would again. But you are right. Trust is a hard thing. He also asked why I still love him as he could not understand why I would after what he has put me through. I told him that I don't know why, I just do. It is not something that you can help and I can't just switch it off. No matter what happens I will always love him even though I wish I wouldn't, it is not something I would be able to change. He is the father of my children and has been a big part of my life.

I can only hope that we will be as happy as your BF in 2 years time. We are still young and it is a young marriage in terms of years together. We still have a lot to learn and I think we are just now getting to the 'big tests'. You know fight or flight? I am fight and he is flight...and I won't let him be. Not with us.

He is on the phone with Relate right now for himself...

there was someone else. i am drunk. i needed to feel something other than hurt...

you were all right. and i hate myself for defending him.

emmabemmasmom, I'm so, so sorry to read the content of your last couple of posts.

Do not hate yourself, it is natural for you to have defended him!

When you say there was someone else, do you mean a one night thing or something more prolonged?

For now, take time, ask him all you feel you need to. He owes you nothing less than the truth.

Take yourself to your local GUM clinic at the next available opportunity, it's a horrible thought but men who screw around can be thoughtless in more ways than one.

Please do not panic, please do not beat yourself up, do not feel stupid for not realising or responsible for his actions.

Talk to those you feel you can trust, do not feel responsible for his secrets, garner support for you and your children where you can.

Come back here or start a new thread and I have no doubt you will receive support from the many of us who have experienced this and those who haven't but care.

Don't go through this alone!

Things are likely to feel surreal for some time so try to avoid the bottle if you can, particularly if you are on meds for PND.

Thinking of you x

Oh emmabemmasmom, I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope you managed to get a little sleep last night. Please don't 'hate yourself' or beat yourself up in anyway. Your husband has been a thoroughly selfish idiot. At least now you have got to the bottom of his hot and cold behaviour - frankly the whole 'We'll decide if we have a future on new years' eve' sounded absolutely tortuous and cruel of him. I know you must be feeling completely numb at the moment, but know this - no matter what path you choose to take forward, you will be alright. Do you have any friends or family that you can lean on at the moment? Please come back and talk to us.

Emmabemmasmom- sorry to hear what's been going on. I can't imagine how hurt and confused you are. Just be strong and think of what is best for you and your girls. Big hugs.