*UPDATE* on the DP 'finding himself' trip to India. We had 'the talk', did not go well...

[stellamel]

Original thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=relationships&threadid=799173-DP-is-going-on-39-finding-himself-39-trip -to

....went worse than imagined

It started off all nice and calm, well on my part anyway. I asked if I could chat about a few worries I had regarding the trip, which he grudgingly agreed too, he didn't see what needed to be discussed, as I'd already agreed to the trip. Anyway I pushed on regardless. I asked him straight out what his reason was for going, was it this make or break deal, this finding himself trip, but he said that was what I wanted it to be, it wasn't anything like that for him, he said he was doing the trip because 'he fancied it' , it was something he'd always wanted to do. When I pointed out that I didn't think he could justify an extended trip, to a danger zone, at a large expense just because he fancied it, he just replied 'why not?'.

Anyway it all went down hill really from there really, to condense a very long and exhausting evening into a readable post, he basically said it wasn't to be a one off, he intends to do more of these extended trips to exciting locations. He also refused my compromise of a couple of weeks a year to himself to go off climbing or running etc somewhere (a damn fair compromise I thought). He also refused to turn next year's India trip into a family affair, I tried to suggest we go as a family treking somewhere (we are big hiker types) instead of him doing India. He said no, if we could come on bikes, or possibly canoe down the Andes (what with a 6mth old and a 4 yr old!) then maybe, otherwise there was no point. When I pointed out that I didn't know anyone who thought this was a good idea amongst my friends and both our families (men as well as women), he said he couldn't care less and that everyone of his mates at work thought it was a brilliant plan, and they wished they could do it. He then said the most negative thing ever 'All men are held back by their families'!

He basically accused me of being selfish, of not understanding because I have no desire to travel, which I said was extremely unfair, I do and would, but I have to put my children first, and I am not even a earth mother type - I just know that my kids have to come first and foremost now, and that doesn't mean I have to sacrifice myself in the process, just that I have to work around the fact that I am a mother with responsibilities. I conceded that family life can be mundane and tedious, and I too feel the need to escape at times, but that can be done without fecking off for weeks and weeks to the other side of the world at great expense.

He is blatantly unaware that his going away heaps massive pressure onto me too, that I need to stay behind and hold the fort as it were while he just swans off.

He told me that this is how he is, that he is a free spirit etc and he'll never be any different.

I pointed out that it sounded like he was trying to escape being a parent and a partner, he replied by saying hypothetically speaking what would that mean if it were true. I told him it would make me feel very insecure and question his commitment to me, and was it worth carrying on. He got angry with that, and said he wanted to be in a relationship and be a Dad.

Ho hum, things deteriorated after that, much of the same going round in circles, with him not understanding any of my fears and worries. I gave up in the end and went to bed.

We are still ok, the trip is still going ahead, with my blessing (he's going regardless, I may as well be included in the build-up, so I can get a grasp of the risks involved and the precautions taken). I have a lot of thinking to do. I have discussed the above with a mutual friend and his mum, and feel that he his possibly never going to compromise and it's down to me know to decide what the future holds. His mum did say, he once came to her quite upset after another failed relationship, he told her he felt he would never be able to have a long term committed relationship because he couldn't find anyone who wanted the same as him. His mum told him that most women will happily coast along for 3 years, but after that they want some show of commitment. He just didn't get it.

So there you go, not positive, but at least I now have a better insight into how he works, and hopefully I can make a choice that is the best for everyone.

yes, you do sound bright and bold, stella. he's forcing some tough choices on you here (i personally think on purpose, but there you go).

I fifth or sixth all that about YOU being the one with talents and resources in this relationship Stella. All the very best of luck to you, I hope you find a way through it all.

stella YANBU you sound like a very caring person and good on you for supporting your DP but I think like the others he is taking the piss, I could understand a few weeks as a one off but six weeks and he wants to do it more often
My DH works on a drilling vessel off the coast of India and has to get from one coast to the other when going to and coming home (he works month on month off) he ususally has 2 flights across India to do this but this time he had to be driven from the west coast to the middle to catch a flight, he said to me this opened his eyes. Started off on the road of death there was a man lying dead in the side of the road (had been knocked off his bike) then a few lorries wrapped round trees and down embankments, water buffalo all over the road and drivers driving the wrong way up the road and chaos he just decided to shut his eyes and hope he got to his flight in one piece, I dont want to add to your stress but does you DP really understand the risks, this was just one road in an area that isnt at war and doesnt have paricularly high crime.
My DP went away 3 weeks after I had given birth and a month on your own with 2 kids is no fun as you can imagine.

Aitch - if he does that then I think she should walk away too... not only is it utterly selfish of him to put her through that, but usually idiots like that often end up putting soldiers at risk as they have to try and rescue people injured in the field or trying to rescue their bodies.

If he's hell bent, regardless of what it means for your relationship, he must get some kind of training and security advice otherwise he'll end up exposing others to risk when they inevitably have to come and rescue him.

He wants to be a sports photographer, I did say no to the warzone stuff . He is aware he's gonna have to start off crappy, and do stuff that doesn't set his heart on fire.

He is a great Dad, he is lovely with our DD. I am aware I seem like a mug and wet blanket, but I'm not - I am a woman who embarked on a relationship with someone I thought was right, we seemed to have much in common and we were in love (I still am - I suppose I have to question DP love), we had a child, and we have another on the way. I see no benefit in walking away without seeing if there is any way to make this work for us both, I owe it to myself to say I did everything I could.

He knows he's able to start off 'crappy' because he has you, his personal doormat, to pick up the tab.

He's not a great dad.

Because a great dad a) would never treat the mother of his child like this b) abandon his child to go get himself killed in a warzone for fun.

oh he'll never get paid as a sports photographer for the papers. the guys who've been doing it for the last twenty years have it sewn up, any money goes to them. the rest do it for buttons.

seriously, in an age where we all have camera phones and can 'report' from any location, he's goiing into the wroooooooooong business. believe me, i'm a journalist, our industry is dying on its arse.

Sorry if my posts seem out of sync, but I'm not a speedy typer!

Thanks ellie, another sobering first hand experience to read!

I agree with everyone else Stellamel; you need to take a really long look at your relationship and what's best for your chldren and you.

I think the choice of career - photojournalist - is interesting. They always (ie the ones who go to warzones and the like) strike me as people who go to these places and stand outside them, observing through the lens of their camera rather than actually providing any real help to the people they are photographing. It's all a bit detached and voyeuristic. I realise that's not the whole story of course, but it does seem to reflect something of your DP's character, tbh. He wants to be a detached parent.

And what exactly is it he hopes to find on this trip (and of course the others he has planned for the next year, and the year after that...)? 'Finding yourself', at best, seems to involve a moment of realisation, rather than a place where you can be happy - that requires far more hard work. And I'm not sure he's prepared to put that in, from what you describe.

I hope you find a way through this. It sounds tough.

I think MyCat hit the nail on the head.

There is no way on earth an adult in control of their faculties would think this is a reasonable thing to do. He might like the idea of someone calling him Daddy, but he doesn't like the reality. I think wants you to take the decision to end it, so he can enjoy being the injured party.

I second AichTwoOh. My SIL used to make a reasonable living as a photojournalist in Europe. She's given it up because she can't make enough money to survive. This is a woman with a film and photography degree, 15 years experience in the industry, awards and a portfolio as long as your arm.

Stella, he isn't a great dad, he's a selfish, childish little boy.

If he was a great dad, he would get up during the night with the baby.

He wouldn't think that it is ok to feck off to India whilst you are at home raising his children.

The roads in India are frightening, we had a car crash there last year, and our driver was a local who was very used to the roads. I don't know whether you know, but June is the beginning of the monsoon season in India. Not the best time to be on a bike.

You deserve so much better than this, 'I owe it to myself to say I did everything I could.'

How about your P doing all he can to deserve you and your children?

have you actually at any point told him that you will also be ding the same and will be taking time out to spend weeks without him doing stuff that you feel he holds you back from doing?

Flip, if he wants to "make a difference" then I did a 30 second search and VSO are looking for civil engineers for irrigation projects and also electrical engineers. Took 30 seconds!

Or he could spend a month (and less than £4k) doing a TEFL and then teach English abroad - that makes a huge difference to thousands of people.

Take photos while he is there and publish them for free - if he really wants to "make a difference".

He doesn't want to - he wants to go off and do what he wants, and in our family thats just no possible - adn doesn;t sounds like it is in yours either.

I would like to go on a month long spa break to Thailand

it would be great

but on planet Real World, when you have a family, they come first

swanning off to India my arse, tell him to get a grip

I have a few points to add:

1. I travelled around the world for 10 years working my way when I was young, free and single. Unless you actually work your money from home doesn't last very long or go very far so 6 weeks does not sound very much and from his point of view or a world traveller, it is not.

1. When you have 'itchy feet'anyone being negative to that idea will be thought of as boring and unreasonable.

1. If he survives one adventurous jolly overseas he will want another and another and another. You get your highs from it, I know, I did it for years. Also, the accolade and bravado and regaling your stories of exciting adventures makes you the centre of attention which he'll love. I did.

1. Everyone else who is not living their life like this comes across as boring and middle aged and a party pooper.

1. I was selfish, young and single when I ventured off and came back wiser, wanting to settle and not wanting to be selfish any more (it took 10 years mind! Now, I live for my dc and their needs)

1. Your dp has something in his system that will make him unreasonable to live with if he doesn't go. He will also accuse you of clipping his wings if you put obstacles in his way.

1. It is completely unreasonable of him to demand money for this trip and to even want to leave you for this time when your dc are so young.

1. A normal loving dad would not want to leave his dc unless he had a job which forces him to go.

1. Your dp does not like his parental responsibilities and does not like being tied down by you or any one else.

10. Either support him totally including getting a p/t job so you can send him money when he needs it and tell him he can go whenever he feels like it as you and the kids can join him when they are older and you have earnt more money

or

Tell him to grow up, ask him to help out with the dc far more than you do now so that he realises he is indispensible at home, and ask him to provide you all with an expensive all inclusive holiday overseas costing £4k

Think that is what I mean Stella by it isn't as black and white as 'he's a bastard so you should leave him.' although you should
You have

• 1.5 children together, so risk them being detatched from their no good father
• negative equitiy in the house so you are potentially messed up financially if you do decide to split. Lodger? Well, in some ways you already have one in him.
• You love him, it just depends on how much you can put up with and whether he really loves you for not who you were at the beginning, but who you are now and when the baby is born. ie not just his DP but a mother with responsibilities.

My friend had this with her DH. He was just chafing around the childcare thing/being responsible. In the end she just decided that they should split whilst the dcs were young enough not to know any better of having a dad who obviously didn't want to be there for the hard graft. They are both much happier and get on very well, to the point where they are going on holiday this summer together. Some men will always think that they should still be at university mentally.

My friend is an established freelance news journalist. He went to Iraq some years ago for several months, wanting to build a career of war reporting, as he felt it was important and valuable work. His GF was not happy but supported him because he assured her of his commitment to their relationship. They didn't have kids and he was insured. She later went on a 3-month secondment to India, which she enjoyed.

Whilst in Iraq, the chap met and became friendly with the Belgian chap who was kidnapped and murdered.

He is still in the same relationship as he was but they are now happily married and hopefully they will have kids soon, they will make lovely parents.

Oh, and he doesn't want to be a war reporter any more.

If you didn't have children StellaMel and you didn't have to fund this trip then I would say let him get it out of his system.

But that's not your position and he needs to grow up.

I think relationship counselling might be a good idea.

If he is so determined to go anyway, maybe the deal is he can't expect you to want him back as a partner but just as a friend and DC's dad and as a potential date if he put the effort in to woo you. But I worry that suggesting this would mean he felt he was even more free whilst away and would come back with a zillion STDs, sorry!

How would he feel if you or one of your children or his mum became ill or injured while he was away - has he thought at all about not being able to take you for granted in the wider sense?

movingoutofblighty - CAT me if you can - my pal in Halifax happy to talk to you if you're stil interested?

'6. Your dp has something in his system that will make him unreasonable to live with if he doesn't go. He will also accuse you of clipping his wings if you put obstacles in his way.'

He doesn't just have it in his system or he'd have gotten over it, seeing as that she said he travelled all over the place during his 20s and 30s.

This is how he is and will be for good because he likes it.

Actually, I feel sorry for your kids, stella.

I really do. They'll never understand why he felt the need to put his life at risk over their needs. Over and over.

OOH Midnight express, brilliant. Will try and work out how to CAT. [moron emoticon]

I have permanent itchy feet and have travelled and lived in various places

however, now the whole family comes

I do not swan off on some jolly at the expense of everyone else

Erm - sorry, but can I be really really blunt and perhaps not so polite as other MNetters..? Tell him to go to hell, you have no intention of supporting his new career from your own wage packet when he is going to be so reckless as to spend far too much money on a selfish trip when you have to put food on the table, pay the mortgage on a property that has negative equity and hold the fort. I'd also at that point make it very clear that I was going to take him to the cleaners money wise to support the family that he had created and wants to walk away from and then see how he has his holiday with no dosh!!

Erm - sorry again!

Stellamel, if you do stay with him it will be on his terms won't it, as he won't compromise?

Which means that in his eyes you will also lose the right (not that he appears to think that you have any right anyway) to make any complaint about any future trips, on the basis that by staying with him you effectively accepted his right to go off on jaunts and to fund them accordingly. That'll be years of biting your tongue then.

(Hijack)
Have enabled the CAT thing. Think that is it then. Must go as taking DCs to dreaded soft play. aaaaaaaaaaargh