I think my mum might be a narcissist and I don't want to parent like she did

[doggiesayswoof]

I have a strange relationship with my mum.

We get on fine on the surface. She lives in the next town and we see each other often. I am not emotionally close to her and would never confide in her about anything. Our relationship is very superficial.

We had a terrible relationship while I was growing up. She is dependent on alcohol and has been for as long as I can remember.

Since I had my dc she occasionally makes statements like "Now you understand what it's like" (with a big smile) or "you've turned out not too badly" etc. I realise that this is her way of saying it's all ok now, really it was all your fault, but it's water under the bridge.

She takes no responsibility for anything, she has never apologised to me.

I have a lot of issues, nothing too fundamental, but have issues nonetheless. I would rather die than parent the way she did and in some ways we are quite similar so it worries me.

Can anyone relate to this?

doggiesaywoof - honestly the similarities are astounding... my mother too does presents for all grandchildren equal to THE PENNY - we get cheques for ridiculous amounts like £1.72 because DS' present was that much less than DN's... but she also pits the grandchildren against each other (much like my sister and I were, and are, pitted against each other) - we don't allow it but it requires constant vigilance and a very thick skin and CONSTANT honest and open communication between my sister and I. DSis has been known to start getting something from our mother and therefore go along with me being blacklisted as it serves her purpose but I'm pretty good at recognising if that starts happening now, point it out to DSis who then goes "oops, yes you're right" - but it is a case of constant awareness and being prepared for the way my mother will utilise situations to her benefit. On being told of my current pregnancy her first words were "well I won't be able to help" - not Congratulations or anything, and what is crazy is she doesn't help AT ALL with DS 3y, in fact goes 3-5 months without seeing him yet that was her first response - it's weird, I don't understand it, but it didn't come as a surprise! It has (and still does) sadden me greatly that I will never have an equal and loving relationship with my mother but all I can do is focus on my children to ensure that they never feel even one ounce of what I have felt. And that's all any of us can do - parent with love - something so alien to a narcissist that we aren't in danger of repeating what happened to us, even if we do make little mistakes in using certain words. The real difference is, if you say to your DC "I'm so proud of you" - it's out of complete love and admiration for what that child has done for themselves - the motivation is different from why a narcissist would say the same thing.

Weegle - the divide and conquer strategy is often utilised by my mother to drive a wedge between me and my sister. We have often caught her out lying because we now talk much more often.

It all sounds eerily familiar. When I told my mum that I was pregnant with my first child and what my due date was (the day before her 60th birthday) - her first response was "what about my 60th?" She now ignores my DD's birthday and tries to make a big song and dance about her own!

I agree that we shouldn't get hung up on words used etc, but I loath it when my DH says "you sound like your mother!"

DH values his knackers too much to say such a thing to me

The single best thing that happened for me in terms of famly relationships was my sister and I figuring out that we had been lied to about each other our entire lives and reaching an agreement to never let it happen again - it really puts the narcissist on a wobbly footing, but it takes a lot of effort on our part!

And your DD's bday thing - mine is 4 days before my mother's - last year for my 30th she made me "share" my celebration to be fair - she was turning 64 - please don't let it ever overshadow your DD's bday.

I'm so glad my sister and I can talk about her the situation.

I think I would have gone bonkers without being able to say "is it me?" and hear the reply "no it's her"

Nobody else really understands what she is like.

It's so 'good' to hear the similarity of our experiences. My mum managed for years because my sister and I lived hundreds of miles apart. Now we see each other all the time and constantly compare notes. Doggie - you are right, no-one else understands.

Weegle - my DH has been told, in no uncertain terms, never to use that against me again! His knackers will indeed be in jepoardy.

Fortunately my MIL is lovely and does notice all the little developments and quirks of our DD's and takes the joy in them that I wish my mother would. Unfortunately she lives a long way away, but perhaps that helps.

I don't have a sister, or I'd think you were writing about my mum

I have hundreds of examples that are too boring to go into, but the birthday thing struck a cord. We booked our wedding for the date our vicar could guarantee he could do it- no other reason for choosing the date (in fact the vicar chose it). Several months later mum spat at me "you do know you've ruined our silver wedding", which was 10 days later.. Hadn't even occurred to me. She felt that people wouldn't come to her party so soon after coming to the wedding (and an anniversary is so much more important than a wedding )

er, snap.

They are just shit aren't they.

But we are all here talking about it and understanding it and knowing that we will not do it to our own children.

Thank god.

Sad bastards.

Pass the vodka

It's hard to read all these posts as they too closely echo my own experience of growing up with a narcissist (and, as my DH would put it, a bitch to boot!!)

No alcoholism but a life of constant control, evil judgments on people who don't do things her way, constant fallings-out with neighbours and friends, disapproval of my friends, and ultimately of my DH... the phrase 'it's all about her' doesn't even begin to cover it.

Weegie I am exactly like you, I give no details of my life where I can possibly help it except the most inane, as I know all others can and have been used against me.

Divide and conquer is familiar too, sad thing is that although I have had years of therapy after nervous breakdown (that mum blamed me and everyone else in my life except her for, while at the same time refusing to acknowldge my troubles even existed!!) , nobody else in my family can recognise her crap for what it is. My siblings think she is neurotic at worst. Totally brain-washed by her as I was for a long time into believeing that her reality is real. Dad worse than useless, totally abandoned us emotionally as kids, had an affair, now he's like a walking shadow and only protects himself. Siblings and I never even talk about how crazy she is.

It actually gets me so down talking about it and years of therapy have helped. But I still can't confront her and she still rules our family with a rod of iron. Part of reason am putting off decision to have kids is because I see how she has been with her adult kids now they are parents, criticising, controlling, and I can't face the thought of losing any of my hard-won independence (I don't have much of it!) by having a baby for her to be super-gran to.

Good to read all your posts even though they make me sad Pass the vodka indeed.

Gosh. The more I read, the more I need to validate my own experience.
I'm certain my mother is a narcissist. She is kind in so many ways though that it makes it hard sometimes to be really sure. Some examples:

1. When my first child was born (abroad) my mother was certainly not with me. She was, instead, at a reunion of her maiden family name where she was proud to stand up and recite her own poetry. Her arthritis at the time was crippling, yet she made the 4 hour journey by road (with my still unsuspecting sister). I will never forget the feeling of euphoria at the birth of my first child. I remember making the call home and having my dad answer and pass on the message to her on her travels. I remember the sinking feeling of disappointment that she wasn't there to take the call or with me for that matter.
2. When my last child was born she had offered to look after my two older children in the event I went into labour. (But not on a Tuesday.. )Instead of staying with my two children, she got her friend to come to my house while she went into the city centre to give the class her friend could have done in her place (and indeed had been the plan if I did deign to go into labour on a tuesday!). The result of this was that she was the last person to find out her grandson was delivered safely into this world. The message came through to her mobile phone, but as it was during the class she was giving, she didn't look at it till much later. I remember her saying to me that her phone was beeping but that she couldn't possibly look at it during her class
3. After my last child was born I developed a serious pneumonia at 4 weeks postpartum. I was hospitalised for 7 days. This was particularly traumatic as I was breastfeeding. My mother called my sister (5 months pregnant) to come and 'help' her mind my children while my dh and baby were still with me in hospital and caused my sister to speed across city traffic to my house only to be told that my mother needed to leave as soon as possible as she had a poetry recital and couldn't let her friends down. My sister questioned who exactly she felt she was letting down. That didn't go down well at all and my mother left in a huff. I remember that evening distinctly as being one of the scariest and lowest points of my life where I wondered if I was actually going to die. My breathing wasn't performing at levels any where near stable and while I wasn't in intensive care I was terribly ill and all I wanted was my mother.

I know in my heart that she is self absorbed to a point where her maternal side is dysfunctional. It's just so fucking hard though

for you Emerald. Divide and conquer, evil judgements, falling out with neighbours and dissaproval all sound very familiar.

I might add too that my dad, we think, was possibly bi-polar. My childhood was horrendous; living in fear of my volatile father and seeking solace in my self absorbed/self-loving mother. Don't know how I've managed to turn out any way normal at all.

OMG, Doggiesayswoof - I feel as if you are writing about my own mother! .

The alcoholism, my inability to trust my own judgement...freaky.

I have to say mine has shown some improvement over the last couple of years - I think partly because I moved further away.

But it is as though she has some idea of thr right noises she sohuld be making but it is all fake, so never really comes off iyswim?

Will be reading this with interest.

Just read some more of the thread...

When I got married there was simply no interest there at all, it's as though she didn't possess the skills to be 'with me'.

When I was in labour with dc #2, she was supposed to be around to come and watch dd, instead she was asleep drunk .

Practical help has never been offered, although she is always happy to give it when asked...

Feel horrible actually writing this about her because I love her dearly, but I do worry that I will make my dc feel the same. I worry that I am selfish and incapable of being emotionally available to them.

I've never told anyone this before, but I sometimes worry that I'm faking it all .

what are you faking?

Like I'm simply pretending to be loving etc .

So many of these posts could be from me. My mum has never supported me, doesn't know what I do for a living, talks just about herself, has let me down so many times.

When my dd was born 3 years ago, we were in hospital for a week after a traumatic birth, infections, blood transfusions etc. My mum was really annoyed with me because I couldn't confirm when we'd be going home so she could come over and visit (not worth driving over if we were still in hospital because she'd only be able to stay for a couple of hours). When I called to confirm dd was out of the Special Care Unit, and started to tell her how dd was doing, her response was to interrupt and say 'yes, the main thing is I'll be able to come over on the Saturday then because you'll be home now'. Actually the main thing was my baby wasn't going to die.

To be fair though, one which made me laugh was that for my ds, my due date was towards the start of May. My mum said what a shame it wasn't a few days earlier, on the 30th April, because that's her birthday, and as she said 'that way you'd always remember the date'.

This is getting spooky.

At least we know we are not alone. Perhaps we should start a support thread!

Am off to bed now - but will check tomorrow for the support thread nigglewiggle!

my mum is absolutely the same and I have become really worried about repeating her mistakes.

looking back our whole childhood was about making her happy. She spent most of it in martyrship mode. I can't remember her praising us much - nothing was ever good enough. I remember her calling me fat. I remember her comparing my and my sisters looks and intellligence. Even now everything is about her. When I had a couple of serious illnesses she said that she couldn't cope at the time. She can't stand me being pregnant as she cant deal with the stress.

I have now seen her repeating the pattern with my very high achieving, very pretty dd1 - and it makes me feel very sad.

I have got a book on this and it says that there are 2 ways that children of narcissists react, either by rebelling big time or still seeking praise etc. I find myself doing this still and I hate myself for it. I can't remember when she praised me or my children, although she definitely favours 2 of the grandchildren.

She doesn't have a problem with alcohol but had a father and a partner who did.

oh my reading though this thread is like a reflection of my life so so spooky, I have always had a very difficult relationship with my Mum, I always felt an outsider, she showed me no love or affection and would always put me down favouring my younger brother. I have had counselling and through this discovered that she is probably really jealous of me so feels the need to constantly belittle me whereas to everyone else she is the perfect mother so proud of me etc etc

Typical examples are: when I had a mc she told me it was for the best and no one has 3 DC these days, she phoned me up 10 days after it happened and spent 20 minutes talking about my brothers new house before asking how I was, when I told her I didn't have to go to hospital and had a very traumatic mc at home she said, oh I knew you wouldn't be in hospital I would have known about it!" erm how exactly

DD3's birth she was the last to know as when I phoned her she couldn't be bothered getting out of bed at 10.30am

Told everyone the reason she didn't visit me when I was pregnant was that I didn't want her to see me in pain (with SPD) WTF??!!

Phoned me up when I was 7 months pregnant to tell me in every detail about her heavy periods and that she had googled the symptoms and she could have cancer, then told everyone she was having a cancer scare

There is ALWAYS something wrong with her, she isn't sleeping, she has athritis, she has food poisoning every week, colds, coughs, ezcema, skin conditions, gynae conditions, or she is poverty stricken.

Anyway sorry to digress I stopped making any effort whatsoever with her usually I would have phoned her but I didn't waited for her to phone me and I hadn't spoken to her until 2 weeks ago when she phoned to say sorry(and get the gossip) when my lovely MIL died. She sucks the life out of me and I feel so much better not having her in my life although as someone else said I do miss a Mum relationship.

2 in the morning and I am reading these and feeling sad for us all.

But we are strong I think.

It is a horrible disorder - and just to recognise it means we don't have it. Hurr-fucking-ah.

There is an american support forum for NPD survivors but it's very bagle-y and sort of Uber-US cool-dude-wow-mamma. I just can't do the lingo and they are all in michigan.

Anyone in maidenhead with the NPD prob?

Oooh some of these things ring so true for me too. I have a strained relationship with my mother at best. Everything manages to be about her and she was always comparing my brother with me (although to a lesser extent now). Now this has translated to my DS who is everything to her but she is so competitive and compares my DS to my friends DCs and her friends GCs all the time. Now I know he's wonderful but really some of the things she comes out with are quite horrible. I don't once remember her praising my achievements. I have also spent some time in therapy including 2 weeks in psychiatric care - I didn't tell her about this at the time but when I did her comment was 'I suppose that was all my fault then' umm well yes partly but also about some other things going on at the time. When I told her after the birth of DS that I was suffering from PND it was all 'well I know how that feels' - I don't know whether this is just another lie or it's true as I don't suppose there was much support for this in the 70s. She also goes into sulks if I ever dare to criticise her e.g. she made DS food way too hot and it was 'I can't do anything right' and sulked off to our guest room crying ffs just don't put it in the microwave so long next time!

One of the big issues with me having PND was that I was so worried that I would turn out to be like my Mum. I'm also really bad at making decisions and constantly seek praise so I guess I'm falling into the second category. Glad to know there are so many others who are in the same boat although at the same time.

There is something very reassuring about hearing other people's stories, although of course wouldn't wish our experiences on anyone. I do feel quite alienated in RL (although I deal with it) because no one can really understand unless they themselves have had experience of an NPD parent. And with the mother it seems particularly harrowing as the one person who should love and respect you no matter what CAN'T. And getting your head round that is tough. I have to detach from it else despite being very loved by friends and DH it can make me feel very alone and isolated. I'm finding it particularly hard at the moment because I'm unwell with a long term chronic condition being exacerbated by a twin pregnancy - I have a million thoughts and worries in my head and feel the one person who SHOULD want to care and support me just won't, and I can't even share it because it will be used against me - no matter how much time passes since I accepted I couldn't rely on her as a 'mother' it still rankles. Ho hum!

Anyway - thank you everyone who's shared something - I came on to this thread to give some support and actually have gained a lot from it myself, so thank you!

Well this is all rather illuminating.

My mother is also an alcoholic, or at the very least alcohol dependent, although she is in denial. We have had a terrible relationship ever since I left home, met DH, and realised what normal families are like.

I now live 150 miles away from her and we communicate mainly by telephone. DH always knows when I am talking to her because the conversation is totally one-sided, with her talking exclusively about her job and her other grandchildren. For example, when I told her that I'd had a bad day, she told me that there was no way it could have been as bad as hers. Sounds like a poor example, but it is like this with everything.

I was very upset when pregnant with my 2nd child when she got my due date wrong by 6 weeks. This came after a lengthy discussion about every pregnant woman she works with, their due date, their pregnancy complications etc. When I had the baby, it was all about when she could visit rather than when we'd prefer it.

On one memorable occasion, at 37 weeks pg and a demanding toddler, she came to visit to "help" me. She read a book the entire weekend, watched my son trample mud all over the kitchen floor and then watched me mop it clean. She didn't lift a finger, not even to play with DS. She had to have a nap every afternoon, even when I was clearly exhausted with looking after DS.

I could go on and on but it sounds so petty. But looking back to my childhood it is worse. She never bought me school uniform after about the age of 13 or so, and pretty much stopped doing anything. My brother and I pretty much fended for ourselves, in the guise of making us "independent."