would you be happy for your dh not to work in the following circumstances?

[hambler]

I will try to be brief.
I worked my butt off in my 20s and 30s and built a successful business that kind of runs itself now - I work 3 long days a week.Very stressful, but only 3 days. Now in late 40s
DH and I have been tog 15 y , 3 kids. I had made a lot of money when we met. He had debts which I paid off.

He has never had a decent job. Was a kind of default househusband when kids young. (ie my job paid all the bills - ha had no job)
He had part time job for 5 years, took voluntary redundancy
Great with kids, ok at house stuff. He watches a LOT of telly We rumble along fairly happily. Sometimes less so. Everything I earn goes in a joint account which he freely spends

I am pretty easy going, he is very uptight.

I recently went on one of those examine your life type weekends (not my thing but a friend of friend dropped out and i took her place). Now I feel a lightbulb has gone on in my head and I feel like a mug and a meal ticket.

For the first time I am really questioning the reationship based on the financial foundation. I realise ours is an exact transposition of many husband/ wife set ups and I would never question the typical SAHM mum's position.

But I am feeling taken for a ride
I have changed a couple of details to protect the innocent

HELP

I think that if your relationship was solid then you wouldn't be questioning things, course or no course.

It sounds to me as if you have had a number of niggles with your relationship which you have seen in isolation from each other - being the financial provider, his poor domestic skills, his lack of get up and go, the way in which you seem quite different. What the course seems to have done is bring all those individual thoughts together into a very challenging whole.

Can you talk to each other? Sounds like you need a very honest appraisal of what works and doesn't in your life for both of you. To be honest, the telly watching, not looking after the house well etc suggests he might not be particularly happy either. How would you like things to be?

"I realise ours is an exact transposition of many husband/ wife set ups and I would never question the typical SAHM mum's position."

I don't agree with this statement one little bit. Why do you think that?

What does your DH contribute to your family life?

Imagine it the other way round and that he was working v hard with his own business and you were SAHM.
What would you be doing with your time? Would you do more things with the children? I know they are teenagers but does he spend time helping with homework or doing projects or taking them to interesting places in the holidays? would you do those things?

Would you do more around the house?

I am assuming that yes, you would do a lot more if things were reversed and THAT is the problem I think, not that he isnt working.

I think you need a good talk with him. In as unaccusing way as possible. Tell him that you are feeling really stressed and over worked with things in the house and the business and what can he suggest to make things run more smoothly?
If necessary, make it clear that if he isnt up to the job at home then he ought to be going out to work and earning at least enough money to pay for a cleaner/ironing service etc to cover the work that isnt getting done!

Is a funny thing.

We feel we have moved on and are equal to men but there is clearly an inate feeling that men should be the provider or at least provide financially a bit.

I have been at home for 9 years now while DH has supported us all financially and when he is home he does what needs to be done as well.

My job is to look after the kids, keep house, get the food in and enable DH to go to work.

DH's job is to go to work to earn money and to do what needs doing once he is here.

I wouldn't listen too much to other people. I have done that in the past and it was a mistake.

I get the feeling it is more about you not begin able to swan off to Europe a couple of times a year or have the time to have hobbies, more than the fact you are funding him.

Do you feel unappreciated?

People are allowed to change how they feel about things but you have to think about what and why things have changed.

I think that as a society we massively undervalue the non-monetary contributions that people, mostly women, make to a relationship. Things like raising children are so important and can take huge amounts of time, energy and patience (I speak as a SAHM to a toddler and a baby!).

From your posts though, it doesn't seem to be like this. I wouldn't take much notice of friends who see him as taking a ride, after all, they aren't in your relationship and they don't see what happens behind closed doors. But what you describe isn't a normal husband and wife relationship transposed. My MIL has been a "typical" housewife of the old-fashioned model. But she has taken on all the housework and cooking, raised two children (doing almost all the hands-on work as was normal in those days) and when her children were older she took on part-time work as a childminder and then as a carer to elderly people. Other housewives of the old model have completely supported their OH so that the OH can succeed in the workplace and progress much futher than they otherwise could. None of these things seem to apply to your relationship.

If both of you were happy, then none of this would matter one jot, but you don't seem to be happy. What would you want to happen, in an ideal world?

hambler my view for what it is worth. I think it is very easy to fall into patterns of behaviour and ways of living without really questioning them, or even formally agreeing them. sounds like this may have been what happened to you in your relationship. You ended up in a position where you were/are the breadwinner and he by 'default' became the SAHD. However, that doesn't mean you meant to sign up to that set up for all time, and it sounds like your weekend away has mde you realiase that. You need IMHO to work out what you DO want and how you feel things should work, and then you need to talk to dh about it. This set of behaviour and way of working is clearly nolonger valid or viable for you (kind of know where you are coming from - I am in a crisis re patterns of behaviour here too)

Well for a start - if he is at home all the time, and you are at home half the time (and working v. hard the rest of the time)- then no I would not expect you to have to do "at least half" of the housework etc.

Also if he is home all day and has time to do his hobbies and watch TV etc, then yes I would definitely expect the house to be clean, washing done and so on.

And to be honest if it was my DH, and he was neither working nor doing much at home (assuming it was by choice, not due to illness or being unable to get a job), then as well as being a bit miffed at him not pulling his weight, I think I would also think less of him as a person, for not wanting to get off his backside and do something, whether it was a job, community work or becoming a domestic god.

Sorry, maybe sounds a bit harsh but that's just how I would personally feel, not necessarily saying you should!

The vast majority of SAHP return to work when their children are at school. I think it is over 70%

I was a sahm for five years but went back to work p/t time when my younger child was 7. My dh wasn't bothered if I work or not, but I felt that it was time I started earning for myself again.

Agree with Inigo. I suspect the OPs dh has probably lost confidence in his ability to get a job and needs a bit of a poke maybe towards retraining.

The situ reminds me of a friend I have with teenagers who has never worked since the eldest was born and hides behind the fact that she has horses to look after as an excuse not to get a job. I actually think she's scared of going to work as it's been so long since she's done anything.

See if you can get him interested in doing an OU course or something.

Blackdog speaks sense. If the children are nearly teenagers, there is no need for him to be at home all of the time.

My dp was a SAHD full-time for five years but once dd2 started school full-time he re-trained and then worked part-time so that he could still take them both to school and pick-up.

Now that they are both at secondary school, he continues to work part-time but he does ALL of the housework except ironing and cooking.

Also - he hardly ever spends money on himself (this is his doing, not mine) and would certainly not have lone holidays or expensive hobbies if he was unable to contribute to them.

You need to speak about your feelings with him because he has clearly gone along thinking that all is fine and will continue to do so if you don't discuss it, whilst you become more resentful.

An OU course, or even some voluntary work, would be a good start.

Okay - she speaks sense but her name ISN'T Blackdog - sorry Blackduck!

LOL - I do get the blackdog on occasion though!!

It sounds as if it's his lack of ambition and drive to make something of his life that is a big factor. I can't say that a man who wanted to spend his life sitting around watching daytime TV would hold much appeal for me.

I dont see this as an issue about whether you can "afford" to keep him. It is about the imbalance in your relationship and the fact that you seem to do most of the work - paid and unpaid.

I would feel taken advantage of in your situation.

Why did he take voluntary redundancy? Did you discuss his future plans when he chose to do this, or have you just drifted into this situation over the past years?

This is a really interested subject for me, because in our household I'm the breadwinner and he will be SAHD.

I'm not quite sure what led you to really question this, but I must admit I frequently question our set-up - and tbh it's frequently when I read stuff here and I think "waaaah, why isn't my OH a banker?" - but then as others have pointed out - nobody would blink an eye if it were you who were the SAHP. It's a difficult role-reversal thing and it is hard to get our heads around.

I suppose the really important thing is, are you happy as a couple?

Growing up in the 70s my mother never worked of course - nobody expected both parents to work. My mum still had hobbies - horse-riding and gin mostly.

I think it's a realy shame that in "our society" men must be seen as ambitious and go-getting and able to provide. Nobody gives a flying fuck when some lazy-arsed SAHM posts here - of course not all SAHM are lazy - of course not! But really, if you were at home, do you think your husband's friends would be saying "god your wife's lazy - she goes on holiday? What a bitch."

I would not be happy.

My DH is SAHD just now. DC are nearly 5 and 14mo. We haven't talked about the "long term plan" but I would be flabbergasted tbh if he were still not working in ten years' time, say.

And I would say the same if the roles were reversed. I would expect to get some sort of paid work at some point if I was SAHM.

Also, DH never spends any money on himself - I have to persuade him to buy clothes etc - he feels bad about spending "my" money even though I don't see it that way.

Also - DH does not do all or nearly all of the housework atm. But that's because he doesn't get a minute during the day with a baby and a preschooler to feed and keep occupied

How do you think it would affect him if he did get a job? My DH has been a SAHD for 6 years. Last year, when DD was 7, he got a job. It was a year long contract which finished a few weeks ago. To be honest, we are not in any great hurry for him to go back to work because it is easier having a SAH parent during the summer holidays. When DH went back to work, his demeanour changed. He liked having adult company and was challenged in his job. However, if we are both honest, he is happier as a SAHD.

In the long run, what is more important? Your happiness as a couple and individually, or money? Would he be happy in a job? Would not having at home those three days affect you? Your children? The general running of the home? Are you sure he is happy with the current arrangements, or is it just the rut you both are in? Have you discussed this with him lately?

I understand the feeling of being the one who organises everything and brings in all the money as well. In some ways I would be happier if DH got another contract and the money started coming back in again, but on the other hand, DD appreciates having her Daddy at home and on tap. Is it the fact that he hasn't a job that bothers you or is it that he appears to do very little with his time? Would you be happier if he spent that time learning a skill/on a course/improving his qualifications?

He's only taking advantage if you're having to sacrifice or make choices you wouldn't otherwise so that he can do what he likes.

You say he doesn't do his share domestically - has that bothered you in the past? Does it bother you now? You have been "rubbing along" nicely with him for the last fifteen years so clearly you weren't feeling like you'd worked yourself to the bone while he was lurking and having a good time?

As for the money, if your relationship was such that you earnt it, then I don't think that means you get to decide now that after all, his trips to Europe are unfair. You do get to say, "actually, fifteen years down the line, I've worked really hard and now I want some more time and effort for me. I want to do less housework/travel more/work less" or whatever the case may be.

You have to seperate out between what has happened before and what you want to happen now.

slug, what a beautifully eloquent post!

Organising the home and taking care of the children is a large undertaking - any of us who can survive with only one of us having to work, are IMO blessed.

Great post slug.

I too know the feeling of organising it all and working ft (DH doesn't really do planning ahead, buying clothes, arranging holidays, birthdays, buying presents, sorting finances etc).

But I also know the feeling of having DH there for the DC all the time and that is wonderful really.

It depends, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

My Mum met my step-dad about 20 years ago now and although he has worked, he has had periods of years where he was supposedly self employed, but didn't do much. Mum admitted that he didn't like finding work and it drove her mad, it was like he'd work if it was presented to him on a plate. A few years they decided that he'd 'retire'.

When they met he'd never owned a house and Mum put her house in joint names.

Doesn't sound great does it, but - he adores her and she loves him. She knows he just isn't ambitious and has learnt how to deal with that (mostly by taking charge of everything). It wouldn't be for me, but they are very happy.

So, it isn't about the facts as they appear on paper it's about what's in your heart.

AHH
you lot are brilliant.

Magnacarta, Ithink it may be cracked if not broke.
Blackduck and secrets you have got it spot on

Ohbling I have no problem with the Europe trips - I mentioned them just to illustrate he/we have a pretty charmed life.

I actually think he has the cushiest life of anyone I know, but he does not see that and has a negative outlook .

skihorse I do know of a woman in my dh's position and yes, she is considered a lazy bitch!
gaelicsheep your kind words meant a lot. Thank you.

I think me and dh need to talk!

oh fuck. Is he a cocklodger?
Shall I kill myself now?

Hambler, ok read most not all. dp and I used to work together 24 / 7. Loved it. literally working side by side all day every day. One day I realised that when we got home he would park his bum while I was getting on with house crap. So I sat down with him and pointed out that it wasn't balanced. So we divvied up the chores. He's banned from using the washing machine (for ever!!) but was a whizz with the hoover.

This was fine until I got pregs and was banned from working after about 10 weeks.

Its a much more usual split now because I have ended up as a sahm with 3.9 kids and he has been having to work away. culture shock for me!

But we still actually discussed the way we would split things and how our lives would be. I too have been with dp for 15yrs and we are not exactly where I expected us to be after 15yrs BUT I know how we got here and the number of discussions etc that got us here.

I am wondering if that is what has been missing in your relationship - you haven't necessarily steered your relationship to this point and nor has he but this is where it has ended up. You are questioning it because of your mind awakening weekend and he is happily chugging along in blissful ignorance.

You have been together for a long time. You need to talk to him about the key issues that are stressing you. Ie the unbalance in the home workload. I agree you can't offload all your sudden realisations, suspisions, doubts etc because it will cause an explosion, but if you say nothing you will explode.

One other thing, has your dp been paying his stamp all this time? If not it would be an incentive for him to get a job...

Soo belatedly with one finger typing - - no don't top yerself. He's as lovely as you thought he was before the weekend.