Please read, I feel so awful right now! Atila or someone help??

[PlumBumMum]

I don't even know where to put this, it could be a WWYD

Basically I haven't spoke to my father since the day after my dd2 was born,2.7 years ago

Abit of background my father has ruined every family occassion I have ever had,
my graduation (had a row with my mother because the camera wouldn't work)
my wedding (had a row with the man taking the wedding video)
the day my dd1 was born(had a row with my mother in the hosp)
the list goes on of the many times he has thrown a 'tantrum'as I call them and ruined a special occassion
So the day after dd2 was born he threw another tantrum in the hospital over her second name,
this was the last straw for me, and to cut along story short I haven't spoke to him or let him see my 3dcs until I get an apology, which hasn't come because he dosen't think he has done anything wrong!

Now in this time my mother has been keeping in touch and I used to see her once a week, over the last couple of weeks I haven't seen my mother very much, my father has not been well and I think she expected me to go and make it up with him and now realises it isn't going to happen

So to get to the point my dd1 (8) has her end of year dance show in a big theatre, I bought tickets for me, dh, mil and my mum to go tomorrow night

My mother has just rang me and said
I'm not going to be able to go tomorrow night because its Fathers Day, and with the way things are I don't think I should leave your daddy on his own on fathers day

I said thats ok, she said she would give me the money for the ticket and I said no it didn't matter, it was ok I had to go she said bye and that was it

I wanted to scream at her
1 he's not your father
2 You can tell your granddaughter your not going to her show
3 Your a bitch and I can't believe your doing this to me
She told me years ago if he ever made her chose between him and her children she would always chose us!

My dh has just exploded and is never going to speak to my mother again, I feel numb and now I have to tell my 8 year old that her nanny is not coming to see her show(which is a major deal to her!)

I am sitting here numb, I feel like a terrible person because I feel like I should feel more and say more but I have cried to her before about how hurt I am and she just says how do I think she feels!

I feel sick and I don't know what kind of relationship I want with my mother anymore she has let me down so many times

What would You do?

ToughDaddy - expecting grandparents to be there regardless of other commitments is a bit precious, yes.

But it is not precious to expect people to be there who said they would be there, and who told the child in question that they would be going.

TrillianAstra- I see what you mean; but children have to learn to cope with a little disappointment here and there? Other fmily members will be there? Can you arrange family viewing of the video (if available) at a later date.

Maybe it's because I had very many bros and sisters and just adjusted to the fact that I wsn't always at the centre of the universe, altho I was loved and did have special times. I never felt neglected! It is up to the mother, who will be there after all to project happiness of the occasion on to the child. I think that PlumBum risks spoiling the occasion. Seems to me that the whole disagreement has little to do with the child and is all about the adult relationships.

Your dad spoilt your special occasions - you have all my sympathy on this- but you are in danger of spoiling your dd's big day!!

Is PBM making a big deal about the disappointment of her DD then? I didn't read that. Obviously a bit upset for DD but I thought the point was the mother making a fuss about having to 'choose' and making the OP feel guilty? Did I read wrong?

OP's DD is upset already but we know she will cope so long as plumbum can remain confident in her stance. It's the DD's grandfather's previous form that's the problem, followed by the grandmother's inability to deal with the situation without making everyone feel crap about it.

Toughdaddy no in my families eyes I am the most laid back person, and I have spent the last 2 years telling my mum not to feel guilty come over when she can and basically ignoring every little comment like "you know I like to help if the situation were different" etc
I don't expect any grandparents to be there my FIL never goes,
I rang her before I bought the thickets and asked her did she want to go, she said yes, it is the fact that she is now saying she can't go because its fathers day,
the reason my father will not be seeing half of his family on Fathers Day is because of his actions not mine, so I am pissed off that she instead of teeling him she is going to see her grandaughter, she is taking the easy option and telling me she won't be there!
And I am venting on here because I don't want to tell her how I really feel

And I haven't told my dd yet, but my mother is the one who always makes a point out of showing up to things shes not even expected to be at or asked to come to, so I'm not pbeing precious at all, my mother actually acts abit precious as she likes to be the "favourite nannie"

Yeap hobbgoblin that is it exactly, everyone continuely lets my father away with his behaviour and once I said enough was enough, my father causing a major scene in the hospital ward because he didn't like the 2nd name we had chosen for our dd, everyone says but you know what hes like,
Yes I do and I'm fed up with it!

And Toughdaddy I will defiently not be spoiling my dds day, and that is exactly why my father is not allowed near any family occasions because he can't bite his toungue!

PlumBumMum- I see.

Your dad spolit so many occasions for you, I would be surprised if you didn't have a lot of hurt stored up. But moving on from disappoitment of GM pulling out and focussing on the big day for your DD has got to be the right thing to do. Enjoy the day and I hope that your relationship with your mom remains in tact. From what you said, she has otherwise been loyal.

Agree with HobbGoblin, more great posts!

I also see that your mother has divided loyalties and she cannot make everyone happy. You have been good enough to be the better person all along by the sounds of it, making it as easy as possible for your mother to be part of your family despite your fathers obnoxiousness. That is to be commended because I'm not sure I'd have the same patience.

Having been so obnoxious, I'm not sure your father should actually be trying to revel in fathers day as if it is some sort of entitlement, but hey-ho, there's nothing you can do about that. If only he put as much effort into being a grandfather.

Your father is losing out on valuable time with your DC and that is his fault, his choice. It is a pity that those choices affect everyone concerned.

I'm really not sure what I would do in your shoes but I do think that maybe the idea of taking some footage or pictures and giving to your mum could be good. That way, she can then see what she missed out on and hopefully direct some of hr anger towards the person who is causing the strife, your father. It is up to your mother herself to stand up to your father and say "look, I am having a relationship with our daughter and grandchildren whether you like it or not!!".

Hope you feel better soon plumbum.

"but you know what hes like"

Yep, having been a twat for years is no excuse for twattish behaviour.

Do they go on to say 'you can't teach an old dog new tricks'? Because that's basially admitting that it's their fault for letting him behave like that for so long.

HolyGuac your spot on,
I'm feeling much better now, I think I'm more annoyed as it feels like we are going round in circles, shes know how I feel, I have told her she is welcome here whenever, and the sad fact of the matteris she fits in visiting the dcs around shopping trips etc so that she dosen't actually have to take time out of his day to come and visit us.

Toughdaddy she actually hasn't been that loyal, my father told her that she wasn't allowed to babysit for me thinking that that would make me change my mind, and she keeps saying "you know I would love to help out if things were different" which I have asked her not to say

So I'm going to ring her and just say thats fine, which I already said to her, it was only when she rang back and said are you annoyed I said yes,

And yes Trillian you've got it only its worse, my mum actually defended him once by saying he has never apologised for anything in his life he's not going to start now!

PBM- I am seeing your perspective much more now. Sounds like you do have much to be irritated/annoyed by. Just ensureyour dad doesn't spoil your day even when he isn't around!! And you DD's day as well.

Have you ever written him a letter to spell it all out and get it off your chest?

PBM- Your mum is a classic enabler. She likes to play the victim I think and cast 'you' as rescuer.
You deciding to walk away from these games is the best thing for yourself and your family.
The anger you feel now is probably due to the amount of times you have 'felt' let down by your mother when she has seemed to 'chose your father over you, which I bet she did even when you were small.
She is an adult so remind yourself of this 'she' has made the decision not to go now so why should 'you' be made to feel the guilt or responsibility for what she has chosen to do.

I have thought about writng him a letter but does it sound mad that I know if I wrote down everything it would probably hurt his feelings more and I'm just not that type of person
I had avoided this for along time because I knew if I ever 'pulled' him on his behaviour he wouldn't speak to me again, so for along time I have been just as guilty for letting him away with it,
although I would have played devils advocate with him but dad see it like this etc.. but he just thinks he's right and if your not with him your against him, I know he has never apologised for anything and
I actually said I don't want him to apologise for what he said, its just the time and the place, literally throwing a tantrum on the ward when my dd was a day old!
I sat there in shock, then my mum and dad left, my mum rang me and apologised that it happened and I was crying and saying that I had visitors and I was crying because I had stormed out
My mum said to him you have just left your daughter in tears and he said "nobody gives a damn what I think"
She never said anything, so if I'm honest I have alot of built up resentment that she didn't turn round then and there and say your daughters just had a baby grow up!

And I have spoke to her again and she has said she is not going tomorrow night because of Fathers day, which I think is a contridiction, but I just left it as I now realise she dosen't get it!

sorry that should say crying because he had stormed out, infront of the visitors when I should have been showing off my new baby

i would not put myself through writing him a letter to be honest, are you sure your dad is not my mum, they sound identical
in his eyes he will always be right.
i think you should concentrate on spending time with those that genuinely care for you and those that you want to spend time with.

i know its hard, i went through it but boy do i feel better now!

I agree with ToughDaddy and Hobbgoblin and Smallblessings

This is your dad ruining your (or your dd) day by proxy.

His tantrums suggest that he has to have the attention on himself whenever attention should be on someone else-the one giving birth, the birthday person, the graduate, the dancer, the (fill in the blank).

You made a huge step forward -toward the survival of your mental health-in realizing enough is enough and blocking him. Your mother has not arrived at this threshold, yet. Understand that she may never "get it" and endure this for the rest of her life(or her dh life). It is mired in the concept of "dutiful wife" ...a tangent.

You can not make your father or mother do anything. As you have seen-you can not make your father apologize. And you can not make your mother see things the way you do-she is her own person-she chooses the way she sees things. You can try to convince her, yes, but you can not expect to control her mind. Absolute disbelief at her choices is not productive as ToughDaddy says.

Your mother is in a very difficult situation. Have compassion for her, but realize that she really could choose to come to the recital if she wanted to-but she chooses to remain a doormat to the toxic one.
And remember-this is your dad, not your mom, controlling this. Keep focus on that, so your anger doesn't get misplaced and you start blaming your mom. I think she can only be blamed for weakness of character and that should induce pathetic sadness from you, not anger.

It will be hard, after cutting your dad out, but I suggest you begin to detach yourself emotionally from your mom. When she chooses her husband over you &dc, you really need to immediately let it go. Welcome her when she can come, but don't let it be an emotional trigger when she can't. You can probably see how your children would pattern that behavior-show them that it is ok to take "no" for an answer.

Sorry this was sooo long .
Good luck, stay focused, stay in your adult mode, even if your parents can't.

Have you got any chance of getting your mother to the show? What would you have to do to get her there?

Hi Plumbummum,

Re your comment:-

"She has just rang me again to say if it was any other day she would go, now she has left me feeling so shit because shes crying about how bad she feels and how hard it is for her".

Have only just seen your post PBM.

Ah diddums to your Mother - NOT. This lady who is now crying and doing the "poor me" act is a pretty low thing to do actually. Its emotional blackmail by any other name. If she was really determined to go (he's probably told her as well not to go along to the show) she'd tell him what for and do so but she never has and likely won't ever be able to stand up to him. I note TMSB's recent post as well and would agree with every word written.

I know someone like this and would hazard a guess that on any other day she still would not attend. There will be an excuse and another piss poor one at that. She is a doormat/bystander to your Dad and will go along with his wishes always out of her self preservation. She is a bystander to this as well as she has not managed to fully protect you properly from her husband's toxic behaviour towards you. She is also culpable albeit in a different way to your Dad as her actions are more covert but just as damaging.

They're both acted disgracefully in my view and I don't think you will get a heartfelt or meaningful apology. Neither will take any real responsibility for their actions.
People who continue to do such things are actually not worth worrying about but its easy to write and harder to do.

If you haven't read "Toxic Parents" written by Susan Forward I suggest you do so, its a good starting point. You cannot change either person here but you can change how you react to them.

NO FBG, I have already said I would never make her choose between us,
I have spoke to her again and she says she feels she needs to be with him, she will feel guilty for leaving him on Fathers Day! He dosen't know anything about this.

But I know thats its because she dosen't want to tell him she is going out with us tomorrow night, I am not annoyed about her not going to the show, I'm annoyed about her reasons for not going!

So she wants to go but can't because he won't let her if he knew where she was going?

PlumbumMum,

Re your comment:-

"I have thought about writing him a letter but does it sound mad that I know if I wrote down everything it would probably hurt his feelings more and I'm just not that type of person"

Forget him for the moment, what about your feelings in that regard?. I don't think you are anywhere near ready to write him such a letter yet. You also need to consider what you want to achieve from such a letter (I don't think you would ever receive any apology from him let alone any responsibility on his part for his actions) and what response it would elicit. I think any response you got, if it was not ignored, would be nasty at best. It may comprise of a laundry list of your own supposed shortcomings along with self righteous justification for his actions.

She has chosen her bullying H of a man over you and will likely continue to do so. For her to say that she feels guilty for leaving him on Fathers Day is both piss poor on her part and an insult to your intelligence.

Attila thank you I am definitely going to get to get the book, I have seen you mention before.

I know in my heart I will never get an apology, my brother went up to see him when it first happened, (my brother has been the brunt of many a namecalling and getting threw out of the house for being useless) and he showed no remorse at all he dosen't see any problem with airing his opinions and he dosen't care who he does this infront of!
I had settled myself with that fact but it is my mother who keeps dragging me down again,
I have asked her not to mention him infront of the dcs, she does,
I told her no cards with his name on, which she did for awhile then at Easter she said I'm going to post the dcs cards but I'll warn you your dad seen them and has put his name on them, I said don't bother posting them or post them but dh will open them and bin them, no cards arrived, but then on dds communion (which she said she might not come to,until I said thats fine but dd will remeber that) she handed the card straight to her and she had actually written his name which annoyed me more than if he had of written ifyswim!
Its all the small things or 'guilt trips' as my dh calls them that get me down
I don't want to cut her off completely but I don't want to feel like this anymore

PBM,

I hope you find that book helpful to read.

Would ask why you would not want to cut her off completely despite all that has happened. Is this also because of what society seemingly dictates re family?. You are well within your rights now to disengage further physically and emotionally. I think your Mum has disrespected your wishes with regards to your Dad/her H many times. She writing his name on a card to his granddaughter (a person whom he has not seen for years) after you have specifically told her not to is disrespectful of your own feelings on the matter. She's again putting him before you and has done so for a long time. She may well be afraid of his own shadow at home but this is no excuse for how she has let him treat you all. Again this is bystander behaviour on her part.

Does your brother have any relationship at all with his Mum these days?. Have you talked to him at all about this?.

You would not let a friend treat you like this so why should family get away with it?. Short answer is they should not.