men and affairs

[notconvinced]

why do men have affairs and can a leopard really ever change it's spots

Ethnic cleansing and genocide aren't instinct, it's choice fuelled by hatred. Animals don't hate.

Men are no more likely to cheat than women. The fact that society has traditionally placed men away from their homes and families, to work, means they spend more time with strangers than they do with their families. This, obviously, leads to strong relationships being formed with people outside the family and contributes to affairs. Instinct doesn't explain a person's decision to cheat. I'm not superhuman because I'm fighting my instinct, in choosing not to cheat.
My point is that men and women choose to cheat equally, men admit it more because society says it's ok for them to sleep around.

happy daddy, i think we are going to have to agree to differ on this. it feels like my perspective threatens you, and that is why you are making david attenborough type jibes. i am sorry if you feel that way. i do not feel the need to respond in kind because the fact you see things differently does not challenge my belief system. can we not exchange perspectives without becomming sarcastic? I am interested in what you have to say. I actually find your attack fascinating. I would love to get you on my therapy couch!
I view your anger as a confirmation of my point. you seem to me to be displaying a modern type of the fight or flight instinct. you perceive a threat, your instinct is to attack that threat, cavemen would have done it with clubs, you are doing it with sarcasm! (when you read my posts do you go all angry, hot or tense or anything? that would be the adrenalin, preparing you to fight me or run away!! ) sorry, im just stirring you up now!
we do not LIVE by instinct alone with no thought!- i have read back my posts and do not read that anywhere. i beleive i was clear that the same basic instincts shape the behaviour of all animals, including us. we have created society and most of us live by its rules because it is in our interests to do so - those who dont feel its in their interests, dont, eg criminals! Strip away the social niceties and you have the basic behaviours common to all animals. the layers of society peel back to reveal the basic, unchanged instincts, including the male instinct to ensure that his genes are passed on, and the female instinct to nurture. as to war and famine bringing protests, well, that is a different issue from the instinct to reproduce, to spread one's genes! since you feel unable to debate this issue with me without becomming aggressive, i dont feel like putting myself in the firing line again because you are BOUND to hate my view on that!
Again, i say lets agree to disagree, i dont want to get into a slanging match with you, i see no point in trading insults. i dont care that you think im wrong, and you dont need to care that i think we are animals at heart!

wow sobernow - tribal instinct! - we DO think alike!!!!

Sorry, disappeared last night for food and bed! My2pw, enjoyed the discussion, thanks. I wasnt being rude saying you were simplistic, only that I think its a difficult area, and the men are all animals over simplifies a complex issue. I actually said that sobernows theories were interesting, strange, but interesting!

PTP - of course it touches a nerve, it is an issue which affects all of our lives. Dont think that that is odd.

Happy Daddy - really like the argument about mens opportunity for affairs. Hadnt thought about that aspect and think there is a lot in it. The women I know who had affairs interestingly also worked outside the home, now not starting another debate about only people who work cheat, but there is an opportunity issue. I would choose not to cheat, but thats easy for me to say stuck at home with only my virtual mates to chat with! Our milkman isnt up to much and he comes at 3 am!

I don't agree with you, therefore I'm wrong. I use sarcasm, therefore I'm in fight or flight mode. I'm not defensive about men having affairs, I'm defensive because you say ALL men want to have affairs and, as a man, I don't agree.
Are you sure you'd want me on your therapy couch? I might try to shag you through instinct.

Sobernow - ethnic cleansing and racial hatred are taught, not instinctive. In both Bosnia and Rwanda neighbours, who'd previously got along for generations, started killing each other after their governments taught each that the other was less than human.

pinkmama, reread the last sentence, couldnt resist mucky giggle!!!!
i understand re simplistic and agree it is a HUGELY complex issue, i dont think my view is simplistic, but i am trying to not go into bucket loads of minute detail! if i tried to, it woud take me hours to type!!!
Also, i do not think that men are animals and women are not, but rather that human beings are animals. i did not mean to give any other impression.
thanks for your perspective too, i enjoyed it. xx

lol happydaddy "Are you sure you'd want me on your therapy couch? I might try to shag you through instinct. "

I believe that affairs are more about circumstances and opportunities and therefore BOTH men & women are equally like to sucumb.
It's naive to think women dont and wont have affairs given the same opportunity + current state of relationship.
Having been on both had an affair and been cuckholded, I can say this with experience. I hasten to add both affairs were with previous boyfriends and NOT with DH.

The reasons for affairs are the same for both sexes and are complex, not just that men want to spread their seed. That's my main point. I agree with you MrsMiggins.

P.S. MrsMiggins, great name.

Mytwopenceworth, I enjoy debate and have enjoyed this one. I have noticed that if I disagree with a poster's pov, I'm seen as aggressive. If that is due to the tone of my posts, I apologise. If that is due to my being a man in a mainly female environment, i.e. MN, then that is a shame.

hi again happy daddy.
i didnt say you were wrong, i said i dont agree with you. i also said theres no reason we have to agree on this!
i didnt say you ARE in f/f mode, i said that is my interpritation of your behaviour based on my belief of instinct- btw, if you note my grins and wink at that point, you will see that i was also trying to inject a little lightness!

as a man you dont agree that all men would have affairs, fair enough, i dont think they would either, (refer to my point about consequenses) but i think it is an instinct males have, that some/many/whatever, choose to not act on this instinct is due to society/civilisation.

"Are you sure you'd want me on your therapy couch? I might try to shag you through instinct." - i might want you to. Do you have good quality genes?

As i have said so many times, can we not just accept our difference of opinion? I have my view, you have yours. im not going to change my opinion and like i keep on saying in many many ways, im not asking you to change yours either!

crossed post hd, i think i see in your other posts a lot of sarcasm, which i interprited as hostile to me personally. i just do see sarcasm as aggressive. i enjoy debate, but i dont like it when it gets agressive
as to your being a man on mn - you bring another perspective to a debate, cos i think men and women do see things differently on many things. I like a male perspective.
are we cool thru all this or are you still mad at me for my pov?

A woman agreeing to disagree? Sorry, I just fell over.

Is this turning from a debate into a pick up line? As for my genes, well you'll have to have a look at my member profile, won't you?

We are ok, mytwopenceworth, don't worry. Sarcasm is my first resort, I didn't realise it could be seen as aggressive. It's a sign of limited communication skills, definately .

I'm sure all this defensive energy could be put to much better use... although I don't really want to expend it on the ironing...

lol i also said could we agree to differ in my last 2 posts before that one!!!!! very reasonable woman, i am!
in fact, i dont believe in store cards, pay off credit cards in full each month, dont gossip, hate spending saturdays in town window shopping and i believe that football is the one true religion

Well, I'm a SAHD who spends all day doing housework. Sounds like our role reversal could provide you with an honour winning thesis.

phew, was beginning to feel i would have to challenge you to pistols at dawn!!

HOUSEWORK? would your lovely wife lend you out do you think - my kitchen floor hasnt been scrubbed in days!!
i would pay good money to see a man in a pinny!

She's probably be glad to see me doing something useful, for a change!
Me in a pinny would not be a pretty site.

Have I killed this one?

yes, you have.

i think we've reached an understanding and i dont have to send my brother round to beat you up.

Good. I'll take my good genes elsewhere...