Abusive parents - finding out 'the truth'

[duke748]

Hi all,

To cut a very long story short, I was sexually and physically abused by my father and ignored by my mother during my childhood. I haven't spoken to my father for years, having decided he was 'evil' and beyond redemption.

My mother, i find it harder to know how to feel towards her as she wasn't particularly bad, but she also wasn't particularly good to me either. Its a lack of parenting rather than an actual wrong doing if that makes sense. I have not spoken to her for several years, but have recently tried to re-connect to her via email by sending a 'confrontation letter' as per Toxic Parents book that many of us have.

She eventually replied with this:

'At the moment I am relatively pain free but I expect to be very ill again in a few months as my body gets used to the painkillers again - so now is the best time to get this stuff out.

Ok here goes - but the stuff still gives me nightmares so be prepared.

Firstly, you were a planned baby and all of my life I have dedicated myself to give you the best future that I could. This means that I did not want to end up stuck on benefits as most single parents were then. It was not so easy to be a singe parent then.

When I became pregnant I was still working, managing the Little Chef, which was a difficult job, involving me being on my feet a lot. At about 4 months pregnant I was becoming ill and very tired. Derrick (I want use this name again - DJ instead), started to become difficult. I was the main breadwinner - earning 3 times what DJ did so it was important that I kept working as long as possible. DJ did not do the housework, cooking etc. At 5 months pregnant, we wanted the baby room and kitchen decorated. He would not do the baby room so I did that after work. After much nagging from myself he agreed to do the kitchen - which was large. I came back from work one evening and he had decorated exactly half of the kitchen and demanded that I complete the rest. He has started hitting and abusing me at this time. I was made to climb up the ladder and start painting which I had to do whilst DJ went and sat in the lounge watching TV. I fell of the ladder because of my pregnancy and because I was tired and unwell. He came into the kitchen saw me on the floor and started kicking me in the stomach and vagina - stating that my pregnancy had made me useless. He spent some time kicking and abusing me and I started to lose blood. I asked for an ambulance but he took the phone and left me in the kitchen, where I stayed until the morning. After he left for work, I was able to call an ambulance and I was blue lighted into hospital. I was put into a coma in order to keep the baby and stayed in there from August for a month or two. When I was sent home, I was again beaten and I think that the aim was to abort the baby. That afternoon I went shopping to get some food and the doctor saw me in Sainsbury's. He called the ambulance straight away and I was again blue lighted into hospital. There I stayed in a coma until I went into labour. I was in labour for 3 days. On the second day, your father was physically removed from the hospital because he was being abusive to me whilst I was in labour - demanding that I hurry up and do something that any women could do! After 3 days, I had a beautiful baby girl, who I then vowed, I would protect for ever more.

When I came home on 24th December, DJ had totally changed. I had postnatal depression, which is quite common after such a difficult birth, but looking after you and protecting you became my sole reason for living. During this period the abuse became really bad and I really wanted to get away. At that time such matters were caused "domestics" and the police did not intervene. Abuse was not seen as something that was discussed. I went to the doctors whenever I could. One Indian doctor told me to go home and forgive him. The social services at that time concentrated on removing the baby rather than help with abuse. I concentrated all my time on protecting you and ensuring that you were not taken into care and recovering from a major operation and have eclampsia. During this period real abuse began. Some of them are:

Wrapping a phone cable around my neck and then ripping the phone off the wall and smashing it into my face - that is the scar between my eyes and two scars on my forehead. This is because I was calling my mother. My parents gave me little support and did not believe that I was being abused.
Rammed a wardrobe into me at great force.
Ditto a sofa - both extremely painful.
Grabbing me by the hair and running around the large, long corridor, banging my head against a wall.
Strangling me until I passed out - I often had large bruised around my neck and have lost one on my vocal chords because of this.
Frequently raping me and sexually abusing me - which in those days was not illegal. Now it is called rape.
Frequently verbally abusing me kicking me to the floor.
I have a lot of burn scars from cigarettes and small scars all over my body.
Many more that are buried, far worse and I don't want to talk about.
After he kicked me to the floor - wearing steel toed shoes he held you (a little baby of a few months) and telling you how pathetic I was. at this time, I had had enough, knew that he would only get worse, so I decided to divorce. A matter that I knew would cause even more problems.

When the papers were served on him, he became worse. He decided that I belonged to him, as did everything else. He started locking me in the house. He nailed all the windows shut and disabled the car. He changed the locks and locked me in the house with you. The beatings became worse but I always protected you and he never touched you.

One day he went completely mad (in all senses) and decided he did not want me in the house any more so he physically threw me out, holding you. I had no money, no clothes, nothing except what we had. I walked with you the two miles into town and went into the Salvation Army. They looked after me and fed us both. After a few days, they contacted my parents and they agreed to help (they had not wanted to help before, as they did not want me to divorce, saying it was all my fault). I stayed with them a few days in one of the flats. We were then given a bed and breakfast room and the Salvation Army gave me a few clothes and toys for you as well as nappies. I think you were about 6 months old. We had to leave at 7 am until 7pm and it was deep snow. We spent a lot of time in the library where I read to you. Generally walking around and eating where we could. The social came up with emergency money for us. My bank accounts had been cleared out by DJ. This was our poorest and I missed out on buying you all the beautiful things I wanted to.

The divorce was contentested all along for over 3 years. He wanted you and I would not let him have you. The cruelty was denied. We were sent to Relate where he attacked me during the counselling. This was reported to the courts. Courts were very pro men at that time. During court hearings he stated that I was amongst other things, gay, drug taker and unfit mother as well as being mad. All of these had to be proven wrong and all were said to ensure that I could not keep you. Similarly he did not want to lose any money or the house or cars. He stated that I had left the house so I should lose them all. I was doing everything I could to keep you. During one of the reports on me I was sent to a physiatrist to see if I was mad - the physiatrist stated that I was fine, but DJ was a psychopath - which meant that he had little concept of right or wrong and had a totally different view of life to most people. He used violence to make me conform to his view of life. He was trying to live as his father - his mother was not allowed a life!

I gained the house for us to live in after about 18 - 24 months. When we left the B&B to get into the house, I discovered that it had been trashed. A sledgehammer had been used on all the walls, wallpaper torn off, fittings taken, cupboards wrenched off the walls, gas fires ripped out and the gas left on. The kitchen, including cupboards and cooker had been ripped out and the place was infected. I called the environment office and they condemned the house, so back to the B&B we went while they fumigated it and the gas board and electric board made it safe. A week later we moved in to a cold shell without any furniture or cooker. Again the Salvation Army helped us.

The next couple of years were spent in court sorting out access. I did not want to give it to him. It went right up to the High Court in London, before I had some kind of control over it. He also tried to snatch you several times, giving several cases of car chases until I could get to the police station. I stopped access whenever I could but if I stopped access, then the social came in and the courts threatened to give you to DJ. at about 6 years of age you began to react very badly to access and I again stopped it. Social came in again and threatened me with court, but you were luckily old enough to say that you did not want to go to him. I promised you, that if you told them the truth, I would try my best to stop access. I explained it to you in terms that you could understand at that age. Back again to High Court and I managed, with the social, to stop all access until you stated that you wanted to see DJ. This was kept to you and you never did ask. Several times DJ asked to see you and went back to court. Every time I had to stop him again. I got several restraining orders against him, because he was chasing me and threatening me in the street. He made one snatch on you and put me into a wheel chair with damaged discs in my back - this was done with his steel tipped boots. I finally got you cleared when you were in Royal Russell after he had become abusive at the school. The police removed him and you never knew.

During this period, my whole life was dedicated to protecting you from a mad, extremely volatile man, fighting the social and the courts who insisted that a man was entitled to see his daughter.

From the you age of 0 to 2 we were below the breadline. At that time social was paid minus maintenance regardless of whether it was received or not. It rarely was. We lived a lot on rice and were very poor.

At that stage I took the decision that rather than live on benefits and give you that kind of life, I would go to university so that I could get a good job and make a life for us.'

What I don't think she realises is that I went through alot of the same torment, but I was a child and couldn't leave. I feel let down that she didn't help me more. In fact, she moved in with another violent man, who, when he got drunk would beat me in front of his own children, all the time, giving them a long speech about how useless I was and how I deserved it.

Now my issue is... should I see her as another victim of the same man who ruined my life and offer her some kind of forgiveness or stay with my previous viewpoint that although not as evil as him, she still let me down badly?

This has totally knocked me for six and I feel like I need to come to some kind of resolution in my head in order to put this whole thing in the past where it belongs and stop it affecting my future.

Any help or advice from anyone who has been in a similar situation or just some advice from a neutral point of view would be very much welcome.

Thank ladies.

xXx

I jjust wanted to add something to this thread as it has hit a nerve. I'm quiye young (25) and I ahven't spoken to my mother for 14 years. When I was 11 I took the decision after years of abuse from my stepfather to move out of my mothers home to live with my dad.

I asked my mother if I could see her and to cut a long story short she said no I either saw her with my stepfather or not at all.

Out of the blue about 3 weeks ago she messaged me on facebook and basically said, "oh so you have made something of your life, how surprising." We then went on to exchange a few messages basically where my mother jusified my stepfather violence and abuse and in her messages her tone was all about her much as the same as your mothers letter to you which to me is pretty shocking.

I guess what I am trying to say is that my mother cut me out of her life and she has never mentioned ever loving me not even now in this latest exchange.

You don't owe your mother anything at all and at some point she will have to face up to the hurt you have suffered via her inaction. But please take something from the fact that although she was/is obviously very weak and has been through a lot herself she does say she loves you.

sorry about the typos am lying down typing as ill in bed!

Just to add, mogwai when you said about your mum always thinking "oh that old thing again I thought we were over that", my mother definately has that!

thing is duke, it is part of you. You went through all of that and here you are today.

I completely recognise with the escaping part of your post.

I can't tell you what to do but would seriously recommend counselling. And it took me years to admit I needed it and even then, years to find the person I clicked with.

But the insight into my own behaviour and how it is linked to the past has been invaluable. I am now working on changing my own patterns of behaving, something I hope will give real long term benefits.

There's a book called Reinventing Your Life which is very insightful if you like reading.

Fact of the matter is you are a survivor and what a tremendously, resilient positive person you must be .

I have not been subject to abuse and therefore realsie that I am not as well placed as many of you to comment but I can't help feeling that if duke's mum had posted her email about the abuse (and it was horrendous and sustained abuse) she had suffered she would have received the support and advice for which mumsnet is renowned, not judged and found wanting. When I read the email what came through very strobngly was her belief that in the midst of truly astonishing violence and cruelty she always tried to make sure that her daughter was not abused physically or sexually. She may have failed and she clearly has not recognised the emotional abuse suffered by duke but what I have always noticed when reading accounts of domestic violence is that the main victim spends almost all of their time trying to survive and there is not much time for anything else. How many times do we urge other mumsnetters to leave abusive relationships which to us are totally unacceptable but which they are unable to do until something absolutely and completely unacceptable happens.

I am not suggesting that duke's mother was not at fault and that duke did not suffer as a result but it appears astonishing to me the lack of empathy for a woman in an unimaginably horrible situation. It seems that duke almost blames her mother more for not protecting her more, than her father for despicable behaviour. She needs to report her father's behaviour - it is not too late

WIth respect, if you have not been through it, you're not just "not as well placed to comment" but you simply can't imagine.

I don;t mean that to sound rude or whatever and you make some valid points. I agree, for example, that the mother would have recieved support on MN, but that doesn't mean she would have told the whole story. My mother, for example, garners support from others but doesn't tell the truth.

Don't you think it's odd that she left her daughter in boarding school and went to Singapore? Do you think she'd have found much support on MN for that?

Victims of abuse often meet with disbelief from people who simply cannot understand what it might be like. This is a huge part of our problem.

Cordelia, Duke didn't just suffer emotional abuse. She was also brutally physically and sexually abused.

Certainly, what her mum went through was awful, but Duke had to deal with the very same abuse and was a child at the time, so was therefore powerless to alter her situation.

Think about it, the healthy response to such a letter is expressions of sadness and dismay that your daughter has suffered so much, and perhaps a wish to mend the damage done in whatever way possible. I certainly hope that's what I'd do in a similar situation.

Instead, Duke received a letter begun with a "poor me" line about "the pain", and then a screed full of the suffering her mother went through. No, "My god, I'm so sorry about what you went through." Only "You think YOU had it tough?". If the letter had outlined the abuse she had suffered and then gone on to explain that may be the reason she failed to adequately protect her daughter, but that she wishes to heal things between them now because she's sincerely sorry, then that would be one thing. Instead it seems defiant, accusatory. It sounds self-serving and self-centred.

I'm not saying that Duke's mother doesn't have every reason to be hideously fucked up and act that way. But I am saying that she is clearly unable to think past her own suffering, and until she can it's probably best that Duke keep her distance emotionally, and physically. I have compassion for any woman that has suffered abuse, especially such horrific abuse, but experiencing abuse doesn't exonerate you from responsibility for caring for and protecting your kids.

well said

Thanks again for all your replies ladies. I do really appreciate them.

To answer a few questions raised -

My confrontation letter - which by the way, although it must have been hard to read, acknowledged the positive things she had done for me, with specific examples, and ended on a positive note, hoping for some kind of reconciliation. I wrote it on February and she has only just replied.

In the letter (or email actually) I concentrated on the things I thought SHE had/hadn't done for me. This included not protecting me from my father, and also putting us in the same situation with her next partner. It did, however concentrate on the things SHE did didn't do, most of which came many many years after she left my father. The example about moving abroad without telling me is one I used.

So, no I do not blame her for his abuse. In fact, reading that email was the closest I would come to ever reading about my own abuse (I could have written that letter!) and I felt a degree of empathy for her, as I know, more than anyone what it must have been like.

In the same way she thought she was protecting me, I thought I was protecting her as I was told (in quite specific detail) that if I told anyone she would be tortured and killed in front of me.

Of course he is 'the bad guy' in this. I haven't spoken to him for many year (other than when he turned up on my doorstep about 3 years ago - that was a shock to the system). When that happened, I became very severely depressed and even, I am ashamed to admit it, attempted to commit suicide. I had counselling at this time and decided NOT to go to the police, mainly due to the low conviction rate. I took the decision for ME.

Now I feel I am going through similar (though thankfully not as severe) thoughts about having to deal with my mother. Do I attempt some form of contact or accept her as she is and not part of my life?

My best friend (the only person I have confided in) suggested I suggest joint conselling with my mother. I think that this might be a good option and way of moving things forward.

Another thing I have never explicitally told my mother about this things he did to me. This was while I was seeing him at weekends after they had broken up, up until the age of 9. As I said, I was told that if I told he would get both of us. Perhaps she thinks because she took the 'hits' she somehow saved me, and wouldn't think he could do the same to his own daughter?

However, anybody with any knowledge of him would be able to guess, surely? My aunt guessed. And I only stopped seeing him when my body literally came out in a rash everytime I had to see him and I had terrible migranes. The doctors said it was stress related and stopped access.

Of course I feel for her... I know her pain more than anyone else. Does she feel my pain in the same way I feel hers though? I just wish that sharing such a horrific experience had bought us closer together instead of tearing us apart.

Just to be clear - I WAS sucidal in the past, but AM NOT now. Don't want you to worry about me!

Duke, I think that suggesting joint therapy is a good idea. I will warn you, though, that I suggested the same thing to my mum as a condition of continuing our relationship and she balked.

I gave her this ultimatum when I realised that our continued relationship was damaging to me and my relationship with my own DD. The emotionally abusive patterns set up in childhood were still very much alive. To me, until the past between us is examined, exorcised and resolved in some manner I cannot see a future for our relationship.

It is sad, and I do mourn the loss of my mother, but I am an adult now and can control the access abusers have to my life. No mother is simply healthier for me than an abusive mother.

I'm so sorry that you got so down about your abuse you attempted suicide, it is certainly nothing you need to feel ashamed about. Coping with such a traumatic past is incredibly hard, and accepting that you are a worthwhile person deserving of life, love and happiness is one of the most difficult things to do. It is a miracle you didn't give in to despair far more often.

It always amazes me to hear about abuse survivors who have been to hell and back, but somehow found the strength and courage to carry on. You are one of these amazing people, Duke. Never forget that.

Thank you so very much for your kind words. I certainly don't think of myself like that - but I do understand why you say it.

I read somewhere that people commit suicide when their pain exceeds their coping mechanisms. These levels are different for different people. That really rang true with me. I am working on increasing my coping mechanisms as I am not sure the pain can be reduced that much.

Thanks again.

duke, what a horrific experience you have been through - and your mother too.
I agree, her letter back to you sounds self-centred, but unlike another poster's mother on this thread, she also sounded like she did care about you and thought she was doing the best she could for you. Trouble is, she wasn't very good at it. That may be because of her personality or it may be because of previous trauma - do you know anything much about her parents? They don't sound particularly good in the parenting department themselves, if they chose to leave their daughter and granddaughter in a potentially lethal environment!

Have you ever read A Boy Called It and its 2 sequels? An amazing journey for Dave Pelzer, especially when he realised what his mother's relationship with her own mother was like.

She seemed to have turned all her focus inwards - focusing on "doing the best for you" while not seeing what you really needed. All her focus was on "providing for you" and not on actually thinking about your feelings - maybe she was more aware than you know and couldn't ALLOW herself to think about you at a personal level because the guilt and pain would be too much to handle.

OTOH, maybe she is just that self-centred.

I wouldn't like to judge her too harshly without knowing more about her childhood and early life, and without taking a step back and looking at it as objectively as is possible for you. She clearly was a victim too, in a very trying time - look at what she says about the courts upholding the man's rights at every turn - what about the woman's rights? What about the child's rights? Where do they fit in? They don't - it was a man's world then.

I hope you do consider counselling, with or without your mother - because it will help you to sort out how you can deal with this and how you can go forward from here.

And as a matter of interest, there are therapies that can help with dealing with the pain - EFT (emotional freedom technique), TFT (thought field therapy) and NLP (neurolinguistic programming) are all techniques that are used in PTSD, abuse and trauma situations, often to very good effect.

very un-MNly hugs to you - I think you need them.

Your mother sounds thoroughly self absorbed, sorry.

my instinct is telling me that counselling with her is a bad move.

she doesn't sound capable of having a productive and stable relationship.

I only got halfway through it...

looked like a mothers life story from her point of view

OP needs to have her own life story from her own point of view..........and live and deal with that, as hard as that may be

best of luck

I know its not done but

Regarding joint therapy.

I don't know - it's obvious that you would go for this but would she? Any therapy has to be wanted by both parties.

Does she have the ability to be objective? I've had lots of counselling/psychotherapy myself and find you do have to have the ability to be honest about yourself (and this does also lead to your being very honest and objective generally afterwards).

Joint counselling has been suggested to me several times but, having been through probably 7/8 years of (exhausting) therapy myself, I simply don't have the energy to get any more, particularly not when (a) I feel relatively okay and (b) I am so much more enlightened and working with her would be like starting from nowhere again. I have small children and I'm tired and I feel she needs to deal with her shit because I'm tired of dealing with it.

It's obvious that the OP would be okay with therapy but from the tone and content of her mother's letter I would imagine the mother would spend lots of time talking about her own issues rather than their joint issues and I'm not sure how helpful that would be for the OP (sure - it might offer more insight into her mother's childhood but that's not enough to justify). In my mother's case, I think she would just enjoy the opportunity to talk about herself and how hard she had it. Any acknowledgement would be on the surface - she's too old now.

Do you cut her out?

I don't know - what do YOU feel about that? I wrote a second letter in response, as you know. Perhaps that would be an option otherwise you are cutting her out with no real reason - she may feel she's answered your questions and may be puzzled.

I do think it's terrible that she took so long to reply but in the context of her other behaviour, it's not surprising.

Thanks again for all your insightful messages. Its clearly something that provokes divided opinions. Its also good for me to get different opinions, as I can't really speak to people in real lie about it, as it seems to much of a burden to put on others.

I am thinking of replying again with something similar to this....

Thank you for sending that email. I know it must have been hard for you to write.

There is something that I never specifically told you, and that is that the things he did to you, he also did to me. Almost exactly the same in fact. This happened whilst I was going to see him at weekends, on access. I didn't tell you before as I was told very bad things would happen to you and to me if I did. So, in a way, the same way you tried to protect me, I tried to protect you.

There is another similarity I noticed, in the same way you felt let down by your parents for not helping you in your time of need, I feel let down by you for exactly the same reason.

I feel that not only did you not protect me from him (and after reading your email I understand a bit more about what the court systems and people's opinions were like then, how different they are to now) but also that you decided to pursue education and money at the expense of simply being there for me.

I'm not saying that you didn't have the best intentions, and I understand slightly more your motivation having read your email, but I felt you let me down as well, in a different way, after having been horrendously let down by my father.

I wish that sharing such a horrific experience had bought us closer together, instead of tearing us apart.

I would like us to have some kind of relationship with you. However, there are still so many unresolved issues. And to be honest, I think they are too big for us to deal with by ourselves. My suggestions is that we have joint counselling in order to try and find a way forward.

Please let me know what you think.

---------

So - what do you think? My thoughts are that she may or may not want to go ahead with this option. If she doesn't, then thats fine, I'll be no worse off than I am now, and will know that I have tried.

If she does, it might be like picking old wounds to be honest, but seeing as a carry them around anyway, I would be willing for things to get worse before they get better if you see what I mean.

Your thoughts and opinions, are, as always, welcome.

x

great email but prepare yourself for her to treat it as a bit of a competition.

if you do have joint counselling, make sure you line up some individual comselling for yourself also to deal with the fallout.

comselling = counselling

In what way do you mean a competition? As in who suffered the most? You really think she would be unable to see anyone else's pain to that extent?

duke748,

I would also go along with the premise put forward that your Mum could well treat it as a sort of competition and/or dismiss the idea of counselling completely perhaps saying that she's now too old/frail/counselling is not for her etc.

Her original reply to yourself does not fully acknowledge your suffering or even her own part in it. Its very much about her own life at that time; its self justifying her own actions but not really taking any responsibility for her own actions. Your Mother was the bystander in this particular dysfunctional family unit.

I would certainly suggest counselling for your own self as a matter of course. I don't personally think your Mother will want or wish to go into counselling under any circumstances. I would certainly not do joint counselling with your Mother and would not even be entertaining the idea.

duke, I think your email is well thought out and well put but like the others I would hesitate to go for joint counselling at the moment. Your mother is in clear need of counselling herself and, whether or not she means it, the sessions are likely to revolve more around her than you. She may orchestrate it that way, or it may just work out that way, as she is in the middle of the chain of damage, whereas you are at the end of it.

If it were me, I would first try one of the therapies I suggested for damage limitation and pain reduction. The reason I say this is because counselling can take a bloody long time - and therefore cost a lot, and it can be very painful bringing back the memories of abuse. In cases like yours, sometimes it can take a long time before you even really get to the meat of the issue, and all you can do at that stage is deal with your feelings about it.

Resolution of the issues - why your mother did what she did - will be harder by yourself; so it might be an option to have individual counselling first and then when you feel you have reached a point where you can deal more with your mother's issues, then involve her as well, if she is willing to be involved, which she might not be.

One more thing - I don't know how ill your mother is, or how much pain she suffers - but it might have impacted on how long it took her to answer your email. I had a good friend who stopped speaking to me for no apparent reason that I could fathom; I let it go for a while and then sent her an email. It took her 2 months to reply to a pretty heartfelt plea, because she didn't have the time to formulate a well thought-through response. It may be that your mother has been too ill to really re-live that period and write it all down until recently. It would have been nice if she had thought more about how you must be/have been feeling, but some people just don't.

I can't understand why you would even entertain the thought of going to counselling with her.

I'm sorry to say it but to be perfectly honest, your posts and letters to her just scream PLEASE LOVE ME MOTHER in such a huge way and I'm afraid that you just cannot control other people's behaviour (not that I think you are controlling at all but your words sound like you desperately want that love).

The only person's behaviour you can control is your own.

The thing about counselling is that it is very personal and the person has to want to do it. It has to be at the right time and you can't dictate that time for your mother.

I can see that you desperately want a reconciliation or some sort of relationship but I'm afraid that if you are trying to engineer this, it may all blow up in your face and you might end up being hurt even more when you are (possibly) rejected.

Sorry if it sounds harsh. I don't mean it to. But I am so worried you are setting yourself up here for a huge disappointment, especially given your mother's reply to your first email.