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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

THE RED FLAG LIST - how does your DP/DH score?

52 replies

madameovary · 17/05/2009 16:38

Apparently if you have a DP with one or more of these behaviours you should run for the hills.
I counted over twenty that applied to my ex...

OP posts:
BillSilverFoxBuchanan · 17/05/2009 19:13

Why does my opinion that it's a horrible article have to automatically mean that I've never been in an abusive relationship

Coming from the other side, as someone who has one of the traits on the list I dislike the implication that I must therefore be waiting to or actively abusing someone.

Springfleurs · 17/05/2009 19:15

That wasn't for you BSFB. It was in agreement with MO in response to another poster.

frazzledgirl · 17/05/2009 19:20

None, thank god. That was scary.

TheProvincialLady · 17/05/2009 19:37

None for DH but reading that list was like re-living SIL's many, many relationship problems for the last 15 years.

TrinityIsLovingHerLittleRhino · 17/05/2009 19:50

none for dh

at the list

poshsinglemum · 17/05/2009 20:16

I actually think that this is a fairly sensible checklist and many of the points have unfortunately belonged to my ex partners. This is also useful for those women who are not sure if they are dating a case or not.

poshsinglemum · 17/05/2009 20:18

It is an uncomfortable read but it is lists such as this that may shed some light on why some relationships don't work out and should be avoided at all costs.

poshsinglemum · 17/05/2009 20:18

It is an uncomfortable read but it is lists such as this that may shed some light on why some relationships don't work out and should be avoided at all costs.

HeadFairy · 17/05/2009 20:26

Didn't mean to offend anyone who has been in a relationship with someone like this. I can totally see how some wankers psychos can break down a person's will and resiliance. Esp with behaviour patterns like that.

KiwiKat · 17/05/2009 20:28

Was nervous reading it in case I recognised any of DH's traits, but fortunately his personal foibles don't feature. He can stay ...

BecauseSheSmiles · 18/05/2009 01:32

XP scores 26.

at squatchette. My mum is still with my dad, who displays some of these traits. Some of us didn't learn healthy relationship examples growing up (i.e. to run a mile from this kind of behaviour) - it took a looong time for me to begin to realise that XP's behaviour wasn't normal, acceptable or respectful. I still, out of habit, find I regularly blame myself for our difficulties - which is testament to how soul-destroying and spirit-crushing these relationships can be.

Thanks for the link, MO - worth me adding to 'Favourites' anyway, because I do need guidance on what's an OK relationship and what's not; I can't sense it, instinctively.

PurpleOne · 18/05/2009 03:00

My exp scored very high too.
It may be horrible reading it, but try living it one day, and see how these twats really run your self esteem down.
The final straw came for me when he threw his dessert in my face and was dripping from my hair in front of the DDs...then he put his hands round my throat.

Never ever blame yourself and get the hell away ASAP. These people are NEVER good for the soul.

lowenergylightbulb · 18/05/2009 07:44

That list resonated with me. A boyfriend I had for a year when I was 17 and a subsequent bloke I saw for a few weeks both would score highly.

Bloke 1 - loved playing mind games, doing the arranging things and backing out at the last minute, he'd invite me to his house for the evening, I'd get there and the house would be in darkness and he'd be hiding, he was odd with money... a cocklodger in the making, he had erectile issues (I realise with hindsight) but it wasn't his issue - it was because I wasn't as experienced/sexy/pretty as his ex girlfriends. I was a virgin when I met him, his previous girlfriends had been virgins as was the girl he moved on to after me.

Bloke 2 - had a 3 month old DD, the mother was a bitch etc - nowt to do with the fact that he had sod all interest in his child!! When I met him on day 1 he loved me, wanted me to move in with him, lots of grandiose gestures, he didn't like my friends, was possessive, didn't really have friends of his own just drinking buddies and work mates, he had an odd sleep pattern and expected me to conform to it. Luckily I moved house to another part of the country and had the foresight to not tell him!!

I shudder at how my life might have been if I had ended up with one of those two. And the knock on effect of dating toxic guys can't be under estimated. I thought that I was rubbish at sex (funnily enough bloke 2 had a wonderful, sexually exciting ex..), I had trust issues because those two blokes consistently said one thing and did another.

When I met DH I didn't know what a 'normal' loving relationship was like.

One of the blokes I have kept up to date with what he's doing via friends of friends. It's morbidly fascinating. After I ran away he got married - big wedding, true love etc. Then it ended after a year. He dropped off the radar, and then popped up because he was getting married again. Big wedding etc - the marriage ended. Then he started seeing a really nice girl (over this period he did lots of moving around, starting businesses, winding them up because other people spoiled it for him)and it was true love etc ... then he got an 18 year old barmaid pregnant. Had nothing to do with the pregnancy, because it was all so hard for him(!), missed the birth and has seen this kid once.

The scary thing is that he's a plausible bastard. On the surface he's charming, good looking - but scratch the veneer and he's just horrible.

Thanks for posting the list, I found it quite cathartic.

BillSilverFoxBuchanan · 18/05/2009 09:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Miggsie · 18/05/2009 09:34

There should be a "men who screw with your mind" topic on the curriculum for all teenage girls...to help them getting into these relationships in the first place.

I did a business course and we had to put people we knew into "relationship style" boxes, of course they meant "business relationship" but it occurred to me it would be a useful exercise for personal relationships...!

I've been there and it baffled me how a man could be so bloody awful...and they know a woman is more likely to blame herself than the man so they get away with it.

Original poster
madameovary · 20/05/2009 18:29

Yes Miggsie, it is baffling how one person can do that to another without conscience.
I agree, the school curriculum should include a version of the red Flag list for girls, especially if they are naive as I was at 16.

lowenergylightbulb, thanks for posting that. Good that you had a lucky escape.

OP posts:
skihorse · 21/05/2009 08:51

"135. He's an ex-con. For some women, this still isn't enough, for some reason."

I found this harsh, my OH went to prison when he was 19 for fighting in the army. Should he spend the rest of his life single because he had a teenage fight?

Or does "ex-con" mean something different in "American"??

wotulookinat · 21/05/2009 09:08

I got to number 74 and gave up reading. Made me very glad that I am no longer with my ex. (and his new girlfriend knows nothing about his wife that I found out about )

shelleylou · 21/05/2009 09:23

IF onyl i had seen that just over 3 years ago, I might have actually listened to my aprents. A lot of them described exp.

A few describe dp but nothing major

Snorbs · 21/05/2009 09:29

I think tips about spotting abusive relationships, and how to get out safely, should be taught to both teenage girls and boys. It's not only men who are abusers.

junglist1 · 21/05/2009 10:01

No there are some female abusers, but I've never heard of men running out of their houses naked at 4 in the morning. Male violence is much more common than the other way around. How many women kill pets to make their point? I think the both ways argument can be dangerous, abusive men use it to justify themselves.

Snorbs · 21/05/2009 10:42

...and the "men are much more likely to abuse than women" argument is used by dangerous, abusive women to justify themselves, too.

Yes, men are more likely to be physically violent in a relationship. But the number of men who have been hit by a woman is not that much lower than the number of women who have been hit by men. In terms of emotional abuse, most studies I've seen have put both sexes as equally likely to be abusive. If you want an example of that, have a look on MN about the number of women complaining about being badly treated by their mothers, MILs, female friends or SILs - a woman who is controlling and abusive of her daughter/DIL/friend is very likely to be controlling and abusive towards her DH/DP.

Abuse is abuse, regardless of the genders of the abuser and the victim. Everyone needs to know how to spot an abusive relationship and how to get out.

junglist1 · 21/05/2009 10:51

I don't disagree women can be just as bad verbally, but I'm in an abusive relationship, and as much as I'd love to fight back, or attack him when I've been verbally bashed for hours, I can't. If I do, he'll batter the shit out of me, and as a man, is physically much stronger (I'm an ex thai boxer and as tall as him). I suppose my point is men are physically more dangerous.

Snorbs · 21/05/2009 11:22

I know that most men are physically stronger than most women. I don't see what that's got to do with teaching all children (rather than just girls) about the warning signs of abusive relationships.

I was in an abusive relationship for a decade. Mostly emotional abuse, some violence. I couldn't ever and have never hit my ex. Not because of fear of being hit back and hit harder - I'm a man and a large one at that, while my ex is an average-to-small woman - but because a) the knowledge that I'm not as bad as her was one of the few shreds of self-respect I had left by that point, b) I am spectacularly non-violent as a person, and c) that I wouldn't be believed that she had hit me first.

That being said, the emotional abuse had a much more serious and long-lasting impact on me than the violence.

junglist1 · 21/05/2009 11:48

I have a lot of respect for you not hitting back. Afraid to say my P has made me a lot more aggressive and quick tempered, probably because I'm always on the alert. He plays with me by saying I'm over reacting to digs he makes but I know I'm not. Emotional abuse wears me down more than the violence as well, probably because he's not violent that often, but the verbal stuff is all the time.