Does my exdp have the right to take my ds's out of the country if i say no???

[fifisboys]

Just to keep this brief..split up with dp recently and he is on about taking the ds's away for 2 weeks with his new girlfriend.

My ds's are only 3 and 16 month and i would not be comfortable with him taking them away from me for that long..he used to struggle to have them for the day when i was at work and has never had them on there own overnight even when we were together.

Am i within my rights to say no to this?

Thanks

[numal]

My dh can look after our 3 dd's. Its the very new gf that would concern me most. Assuming she has no dc of her own how could she possibly know the dangers of sun exposure and all the dozens of little wants and needs of 2 these little boys? Don't even get me started on the dangers of swimming pools. It would be a holiday from hell for her. With children that young the term "keeping an eye on them" doesn't even come close to the care and attention these boys are going to need. Imagine bedtime - the boys sunburned, tired and crying for their mum - the gf hoping for a romantic night on the town. It doesn't bear thinking about. Don't even think about it.

[JoPie]

Mrs jammi, I think you're being a bit naive to be honest. Whether you like it or not, there are a definite number of fathers who do not do a lot of the day to day childcare, and simply would not know what to do with their children on all practical levels. I'm sure a lot of them are perfectly intelligent people who could work it out, but not all of them.
Thats not being judgmental, its not being mean to dads, its just being realistic. I know fathers who are oddly proud of never having changed a nappy, who wouldn't know what to dress their own children, or even where to find their clothes. These are often men who work long hours, who spend little time with their children during the week, and leave all of the practicalities to their partners.

I'm not saying all, or many, or even a lot, but lets not pretend that all fathers take equal care of their children, or in fact any real practical care of their children. Its not being horrible, its just a cold truth.
I know one man in particular, very nice guy, clearly adores his children, but to be honest I wouldn't trust him overnight with a cat, let alone with his or any children for 2 weeks. If his girlfriend leaves their 2 children with him for an afternoon, she is likely to come home to find that it hasn't occurred to him to feed them or change a nappy let alone anything else. If it was me I couldn't bear it, but they seem happy enough so who knows. But if they had split up and she told me he had taken them to spain for a week, I would assume she had lost her marbles entirely.

[AnitaBlake]

This post saddens me.

1. What experience did the OP of looking after DCs ALONE overnight before the split with her partenr? Why does he have to prove himself but she doesn't?

1. How do you know that his gf has no xp looking after LOs overnight? I have no DCs of my own, but am very well versed in looking after very young children overnight.

As a final point when my parent split my brother was approx. 1 yo. my dad applied for contact after being denied it by my mum. He was given EOW and one night a week. My brother was not considered too young to be away from his mum, and this was 20 years ago, when the coourts were unlikely to give overnight contact at all to very young kids. All I am saying is it very much depends on the child. I find it worrying how many mums refuse contact because the DC is too young, surelym the faster the child knows that both parents can look after them the better?

[AnitaBlake]

This post saddens me.

1. What experience did the OP of looking after DCs ALONE overnight before the split with her partenr? Why does he have to prove himself but she doesn't?

1. How do you know that his gf has no xp looking after LOs overnight? I have no DCs of my own, but am very well versed in looking after very young children overnight.

As a final point when my parent split my brother was approx. 1 yo. my dad applied for contact after being denied it by my mum. He was given EOW and one night a week. My brother was not considered too young to be away from his mum, and this was 20 years ago, when the courts were unlikely to give overnight contact at all to very young kids. All I am saying is it very much depends on the child. I find it worrying how many mums refuse contact because the DC is too young, surelym the faster the child knows that both parents can look after them the better?

[Pinkglow]

"Whether you like it or not, there are a definite number of fathers who do not do a lot of the day to day childcare, and simply would not know what to do with their children on all practical levels."

As per the above does the OPs partner not do alot of the childcare or have them overnight because hes never been interested or because he hasnt been given the opportunity? If they have just spilt up then surely its a matter of time before the partner will have access to the kids overnight so will therefore gain that experience?

As I see alot of fathers who like JoPie said dont have alot to do with the day to day childcare but quite often its because they are not 100% trusted by their DP so are therefore never allowed to take their DC out for the day etc etc

[JoPie]

Its certainly one reason, Pinkglow.

[blondissimo]

Very unfair to suggest the girlfriend would not be capable of looking after the children. Before I had my ds, I helped to look after my dp's dd and I had enough common sense to know that she should always be kept an eye on, plastered in suncream, reapplied, fed at correct times, bed at set time etc. In fact, and I know my dp would agree with me here, I think I probably did a lot more of the hands on childcare than he did. He has always looked after dd overnight since she was 18 months old and perfectly capable, but says it became easier when I came along. Not fair to assume she is incapable.
I do think though, that if the split was very recent and they haven't spent lots of time/ overnight with dad/gf then this needs to be introduced before they go away for such a long time.

[JoPie]

You do realise that other people are not exactly the same as you though, mrs jammi?

[Janos]

I think the OP has come in for a lot of completely unjustified stick here.

It's a very emotive issue and people have very strong feelings about it which is totally understandable.

I've read through and can't see anywhere where OP has tried to stop her XH seeing their DC. All she's done is ask whether it's a good idea for them to be going away on holiday with XH and his new girlfriend and said she feels uncomfortable about it and doesn't want them to go.

It really is all about context and the individuals concerned. As JoPie says some men would be capable, some wouldn't.

[Janos]

Sorry, missed a bit off the second last paragraph.

I wanted to say that maybe the OP's concerns are justified and perhaps we could all think about that rather than just making assumptions?

Given circumstancher es she sounds very reasonable and accommodating in facilitating access when many people (mums or dads) wouldn't be.

[Janos]

Urgh, sorry, what is up with my typing!

I mean to say given her circumstances.

fifisboys just realised I talked about you in third person. Sorry if that came across as rude, not meant to.

[JoPie]

no, you missed my point. I did not mean that your opinion puts you in a minority, or that your opinion was wrong. What I have been trying to point out to you is that not all fathers are as capable as your and mine partners, and that merely being a father of children does not make you capable of caring for them for 2 full weeks.
You don't get automtic abilities just because you love the children. The same point applies to mothers, grandparents, friends, and new girlfriends of fathers.
Some people, including some fathers, would have a distinctly questionable ability to adequately care for their children properly. Any parent or caregiver who is not sure of any persons ability to provide a reasonable level of care to their children as both the right and the responsibility to deny them the request. And if that includes their own father at that point, thats sad, but no less reasonable a point.

[jellybeans]

Not read all thread but I agree with OP, I wouldn't want my little kids in another country for such a long time, even with their dad, older kids great, babies no. Yes dads are very important but often babies are more 'bonded' with their mum, breastfeeding etc. There is a difference between stopping contact out of bitterness and not wanting your kids in another country at a tiny age. The OP sounds perefctly reasonable.

[fifisboys]

Thanks for all the replies on here....

Firstly, i have briefy spoke to exdp about this over the weekend and told him the reasons why i dont want him to have the kids away for that long.
I know that he will take care of them but the main issue for me is that he has never had them on his own for more than about 8 hours and i have never left them for longer than overnight with our parents so i dont know how the kids would be if we were apart for that long.
Secondly, exdp was supposed to have the kids overnight on saturday and he openly admitted that he didnt feel like he could have them so he dropped them off at my mams house because i was out, which has kind of confirmed for me that he is not ready for such a big responsibility to take them away.

I am happy for him to have them overnight, maybe even for a weekend but certainly not for such a long length of time in a foregin country.

[Surfermum]

He's not exactly helping his cause is he? How did it respond to what you said fifi?

And I agree about the new girlfriend not necessarily being a concern. I was childless when I met dd (then aged 4) but I was well aware of what the need for suncream, and the dangers of swimming pools - I'd been a volunteer lifeguard for about 20 years! I was perfectly capable of looking after her and understanding her needs, and had the resources to find out about what I didn't know either by reading up about it or asking friends and relatives for advice.

[fifisboys]

He just said he thought i was being unreasonable....but given what happened at the weekend i think i have every right to be.
I agree the girlfriend is not really an issue in all of this, its the fact that my babies will be in a different country for 2 weeks without me, which would be unsettling, like i said they have never been away from me. I am going to stick to my guns and still suggest the overnights and weekend stays for now, but i cant see him taking them away anytime soon.

[Surfermum]

I bet he knows that actually it's him being unreasonable - hence him trying to say you are. He probably knows full well that if he had to take them to your mums at the weekend, then you are right in wondering how he will cope for a fortnight abroad. But it's easier to make out you are the bad guy, so instead of saying to people "I'd never cope with them for a fortnight" he can say "she won't let me" ... then he gets the sympathy vote.