Does my exdp have the right to take my ds's out of the country if i say no???

[fifisboys]

Just to keep this brief..split up with dp recently and he is on about taking the ds's away for 2 weeks with his new girlfriend.

My ds's are only 3 and 16 month and i would not be comfortable with him taking them away from me for that long..he used to struggle to have them for the day when i was at work and has never had them on there own overnight even when we were together.

Am i within my rights to say no to this?

Thanks

[prettyfly1]

Uh sorry but I am with my partner and my son is four - I wouldnt have wanted my kids away from me at sixteen months. That is still a baby and its ridiculous to take a baby away from its mother at that age for that amount of time. Recommended access for that age bracket is little and often. She is far from overprotective. If the split is recent then the gf has not been around for long and this is too much to ask quite frankly. No mother should be forced to be away from their baby for that amount of time REGARDLESS of their partnership status - when she had kids with this man she didnt sign up for that if that is your argument.

[atigercametotea]

if you weren't separated, would you let them go on holiday with their dad?

Who clearly knows them and their routine?

It doesn't really matter that his girlfriend is going on holiday, as it will be their dad who looks after them.

Of course, a dad should be able to take his children on holiday, whether he is living with their mum or not.
Being ALLOWED to is a ridiculous notion!

[2rebecca]

The op did say they had only recently split up though so before that he was seeing the kids all the time and living with them.
If the dad had got residency would people think the mum shouldn't be able to go away with the kids? Why is going with a girlfriend the kids hardly know any worse than going with a friend they hardly know? A 3 month old is too young to notice either of them anyway. If the holiday isn't until July there's actually pleanty of time for him to start having the children alternate weekends and see how he gets on. I still think the dad and girlfriend would have a more relaxed holiday without 2 young kids and think 1 week would be plenty.
I think the op will have to get used to the fact that now she is separated the kids will be spending a significant amount of time with their dad rather than her. It is very hard at first. I used to be in tears Sat night when my ex had the kids at first as I missed them. Thankfully I missed them more than they missed me and seeing their dad regularly has meant they have an excellent relationship with both of us and know at least 2 adult will always be there for them.
It's hard but for the sake of the children you have to treat the other parent as you'd wish him to treat you if he had residency.

[2rebecca]

I had presumed they were 3 months and 16 months and very recent split.

[2rebecca]

Actually if 3 years and 18 months that should be easier for the dad to manage. I'd wondered at the wisdom of taking a 3 month old away but presumed he was bottle fed and would be 5 months by time of holiday. If the youngest will be 18 months old then they should be fine, but I wonder why the dad hasn't had the kids staying with him so far. Is hhe in temporary accom if recent split and wife got the family home?

[Surfermum]

I think that's a good point about the non-resident parent having to prove themselves all the time while the parent with care can do anything.

That was definitely dh's experience. We too were prevented from going abroad by dsd's mum. It was a flat no, no discussion. Then her reason was that she wanted to be the one to fly with her for the first time. She insisted on knowing exactly where we were going in this country and wanted contact numbers etc. That's not that unreasonable except for the fact that when dh asked her to let him know where she would be with dsd over the 3 weeks he wasn't going to see her she told him it was none of his business.

And in court over contact, there were never any questions asked about dsd's mum, her forensic history wasn't searched, she didn't have to to have supervised contact before she was allowed to see her child - she could go home from the court and see as much as she wanted of her daughter. But dh was scrutinised and forced to have supervised contact before he could even take his little girl out for a day. It was bloody outrageous (although I can understand that the courts had to find out for themselves that the lies his x was teling them weren't true).

But in spite of our experience, in fifi's position I would want to build the contact up rather than a great leap to 2 weeks abroad.

[HolyGuacamole]

I think the ex should be allowed to take his children on holiday, he should be allowed the opportunity of having the same relationship with his children that they have with their mother.

I understand that you are worried though, doesn't every mother worry about their children? Why not start with him starting to take the children overnight and see how he gets on?

As for the new girlfriend, I know that may be a hard to swallow but it is his life and that is the reality of having parents who are divorced. I think unless there are obvious reasons, then you have to give him the respect for him to decide whether he wants someone to get to know his children or not, why not have a very reasonable chat with him about it? He might be able to lay your worries to rest? Alternately, he may make a mistake and introduce someone too early and their relationship might not last, however, he is an adult and needs to be given responsibility. If he makes that mistake, he will hopefully learn from it because we all make mistakes.

You can't protect children from absolutely every outside influence that they will ever encounter.

[prettyfly1]

I was a single parent initially and yes, I would have been unhappy with someone taking my son away at sixteen months for two weeks - partner or otherwise. Its really interesting hearing the different perspectives but personally I think that this father is obviously loving and caring but IS inexperienced at the tough things like overnights etc, quite possibly through no fault of his own. Some weekends together first, and then maybe a week away this year, with the proviso that both parents can do holidays up to two weeks next year, whilst the children, who have NEVER been away from their mother adjust to the changes would be a slower and more reasonable way to make things better all round. 2 Rebeccas posts are absolutely spot on - although its three years - and op does have to get used to this, but so do the kids and that has to be done slowly and carefully. My partner has his son 50 per cent of the time, so I am now a step mum myself and understand the strength of feeling of those of you I recognise from stepparents, who have had nightmares thanks to exes but I wasnt introduced straight away and I feel strongly that introducing children of any age to a new partner before six months is just absolutely wrong. After that again it has to be done very very slowly for the kids sake - not the mother - The three year old in particular could get quite attached and if the relationship doesnt work long term then it will end up hurt and in an upheaval process again.

[Flynnie]

The problem for me is the fact that he has only been with the gf for a month.
I personally wouldn't want my children to go out of the country with someone who is a stranger to them.

However there is a double standard. You can take them abroad but he can't?
How would you feel if the gf wasn't going and it would be just him and the dc?

[JoPie]

But its not just 2 weeks away with their dad, its 2 weeks with his new girlfriend, who he has been with for a month, thats a completely different prospect anyway.

I am not seperated, and I would not let my DS's go away without me for 2 weeks, not with my husband (who would be perfectly capable of having them for that long), not with their grandparents (ditto), and certainly not with someones month old GF! And none of them would dream of expecting it.

I would imagine if it is a recent split and given their ages, it would be very hard on the children who would likely be crying for their mother and be completely confused and miserable. I can't imagine it would be remotely enjoyable for the children, or in fact for the girlfriend.

And he had the option of going on holiday with his children and their mother, and he was the one who changed the plans in favour of the new GF, he can't have his cake.....

[prettyfly1]

surfer and holy I think they were really good posts. The op isnt wrong to want to protect her kids and the system that makes dads constantly prove themselves SUCKS and allows exes unreasonable amounts of control - I know I have been through it - but for the sake of the kids in this instance I really feel it has to be done much more slowly and I say that firmly knowing that I would expect my partner to ask the same of me and I would provide it without a second thought.

[GypsyMoth]

theres plenty of time to build up to it ready for july if they all start now. so why do n't you offer this op? approach him,tell him your thoughts and see what he says.

[Surfermum]

If I was the girlfriend a fortnight abroad with two little ones wouldn't be my first choice of break .

I can remember the culture shock from taking dsd on holiday for the first time (was childless at the time) and not being able to stay anywhere until closing time as she had to get to bed {grin]. Although building fortresses against the incoming tide was quite good fun.

[prettyfly1]

Lol - surfer I am still trying to get out of it

[mayorquimby]

"No mother should be forced to be away from their baby for that amount of time REGARDLESS of their partnership status - when she had kids with this man she didnt sign up for that if that is your argument.
"

but it's perfectly reasonable for the op to force the father to be away from his children for that amount of time?seeing as she is going on a holiday herself this month?

[Snorbs]

A parent with PR needs the permission of all other people with PR before taking a child out of the country.

The 28 days exemption only applies if there's a Residence Order in place and it's the resident parent who's taking them.

So the OP's ex needs the OP's permission to take the children overseas. By the same token, though, the OP would need her ex's permission to do the same thing.

[idranktheteaatwork]

"No mother should be forced to be away from their baby for that amount of time REGARDLESS of their partnership status - when she had kids with this man she didnt sign up for that if that is your argument."

So what makes you think that the father signed up for being forced to be away from his babies for that amount of time??

BOTH parents are equally as important regardless of gender. The op is talking about summer holidays, the father will have been with his girlfriend longer than one month by then and as by her own admission they have known each other for years it doesn't sound like a fling.
Although it wouldn't matter if it was, if the the father went to court with this he would in all liklihood be granted permission. The girlfriend issue would be invalid unless there were child protection issues.

One parent should not have or assume the right to dictate to another parent where and when they can see their children. The op needs to be working together with the father as co-parents. If a child sees it's parents growing up showing each other respect and consideration with equal opportunity to spend time with both parents then that child will end up a well balanced happy individual.

[idranktheteaatwork]

likelihood not liklihood. Sorry.

[GypsyMoth]

isn't it all about whats in the best interest of the children?

whats best for them op?

[BitOfFun]

Surfer has made the point I wanted to- chillax guys, there is no way in hell this guy's girlfriend of one month is going to agree to play mummy for a fortnight in sunny Spain when she signed up to a shagathon...get real!

[OptimistS]

To answer the question, yes you are within your rights to say no. Whether or not you should is a moral question not a legal one.

There are practical considerations to consider, for a start. If the 3-month-old is still being BF for example, then it's not really plausible for him to go away for 2 weeks. Can't see any real argument for the 18 month old not to go although I totally understand why you would be reluctant to let him go. I would be too.

I think this is one of those situations where trying to be as accommodating and friendly as possible will pay off. Your X may be pushing for this because he is feeling excluded. By letting him have access more often, including overnight stays, he will be less inclined to make more dramatic suggestions such as 2-week trips abroad. Plus, as someone else pointed out earlier, a few overnight stays will quickly make him realise that if he's going on holiday with a very new GF, he's not going to get in a lot of romance (or sleep!) with two small children around and he will probably change his mind. And if he does still go ahead, well at least he will have improved his coping abilities by that time. He can't get better if you don't let him have the opportunity though.

Good luck. I hope you get it sorted.