Does my exdp have the right to take my ds's out of the country if i say no???

[fifisboys]

Just to keep this brief..split up with dp recently and he is on about taking the ds's away for 2 weeks with his new girlfriend.

My ds's are only 3 and 16 month and i would not be comfortable with him taking them away from me for that long..he used to struggle to have them for the day when i was at work and has never had them on there own overnight even when we were together.

Am i within my rights to say no to this?

Thanks

[GypsyMoth]

after reading this thread i'm slightly worried now!
my dd1 goes to belgium with school in june,and again to poland in oct. my kids don't see their dad,the younger ones speak to him,but dd doesn't at all.....do i need to ask him if she can go?

[JoPie]

The point I was making was that due to the nature of our family set up we are both equally primary caregivers. If my husband was the PC, I would consider it to be the same as if I was, no gender differences whatsoever. But I don't think that is the most common set up, per se.
Whether we like it or not, infants and small children have a different relationship with their PC than with a non-PC. Taking small children who are already dealing with a recent break-up away from their primary caregiver to spend 2 full weeks with someone (parent or not) who has been shown (taking the OP at face value) to be uncomfortable with their daily care could be quite damaging. Throw in a new partner that they don't know? Even worse. Especially to the younger child who is probably still deeply in the attachment to the PC phase.
No way on earth would I allow it. Nothing to do with the rights of the parents, either of them, I think it would be very bad for the children. Just MO.

[idranktheteaatwork]

The parents don't have rights, the children do.
Every child has the right to an equal and uninterrupted relationship with both parents as long as there are no child protection issues.. That is the law in this country. About bloody time it was enforced.

[GrapefruitMoon]

Actually 2rebecca, in the "olden" days (and I'm talking about when I was a child!) when mothers died/couldn't look after their children due to illness, in my experience the children often ended up in care. Fathers were not expected to be able to cope with the rigours of looking after children as well as holding down a full-time job. Obv it may have been different in other areas but that certainly was common where I grew up

[Pinkjenny]

So a 16 month old child that can't comment for itself and no longer lives with it's father should be taken on holiday for two weeks without their mother? Rubbish.

We have a situation like this in our family, where my cousin has been handed over to her father for two week holidays over the summer, absolutely sobbing her heart out over being away from her mother.

She has rights, does she?

[Surfermum]

And how was the holiday PinkJenny? It's very common IME that children are distraught at being left at nursery, for example, but the minute their mum has gone they are absolutely fine and have a great time.

Handovers when things are acrimonious between the parents are really tense and stressful. The children pick up on that. I wouldn't base whether your cousin should be able to spend a fortnight with their dad purely on the handover.

My dd (6) still now cries sometimes if she has to go to Grandma's because we are going out. There's absolutely no problem with her being there or being away from us - she just doesn't want to miss out on what we are doing.

[CarGirl]

I would try and discuss this with your ex. I would point out to him that 2 weeks away from a childs main carer at such a young age is not in their best interests (and no it really isn't a good idea from them to be away from such a sole carer for such a length of time).

I would explain that you don't have a problem with the principle so perhaps he could start building up having them on his own (with or without his new dp) for a few hours, then whole days, then overnights and perhaps look at him taking them away for a long weekend at the end of the year?

[Pinkjenny]

Yes, the holiday was fine, I'm sure. And my dd goes to nursery, so I am well aware that handovers can be stressful.

My point is that in this situation, it is far more about point scoring than the welfare of the children, i.e., "well if you are taking her away then so am I". If my dh and I split up, it would be totally inconceivable for me to comprehend him taking my dd out of the country for two weeks. In fact, I wouldn't even be comfortable for him to take her away for two weeks now!

[idranktheteaatwork]

Yes she does have rights PinkJenny.

When my dsd was 3 she used to sob at handover from her mum to my dp. She would then sob at handover from my dp to her mum a few days later.
She would also sob when being dropped off at nursery.

As surfermum says you cannot apply what happens at handover to what will happen over the fortnight.

The op isn't the sole carer, the father sees the children almost daily.

[CarGirl]

to be away for 2 weeks is very very different to a day and then seeing your primary carer.

[spicemonster]

I think rather a lot of people are putting 2 and 2 together and making 6 on this thread. The OP said that she still wanted her ex to come on holiday with them. Doesn't sound like it's acrimonious does it? Sounds to me that she's worried about how her small children will cope without their mother for 2 weeks when they've never been apart from her more than overnight.

He may be their dad but it's still a valid concern that he's never looked after them before on his own isn't it? It's not that he's incapable (I don't think we know enough one way or the other) but it is surely relevant that neither he nor they have ever spent the night together without their mother being there. Or does that cease to be important if parents have split up?

[Surfermum]

Yes you're right, it is. But my point was about the handover doesn't necessarily set the scene for whether things are going to work out or not.

It may be point scoring, but equally it may not be. He doesn't want to go with his ex partner which is entirely appropriate, but he might still want to have a holiday in the sun with his children.

[Pinkjenny]

Just to clarify, I meant the point scoring was an issue in my family, not the OP's.

[Surfermum]

[JoPie]

Theres a huge difference between crying going into nursery when your mother will be back in a few hours, than being taken away to unfamiliar surroundings with people you don't know without their mother for 2 WEEKS! Thats like a year to an infant.

I can't imagine that a newly seperated father who had the best interests of his children at heart would do that to a child. I just asked my OH and he said the same thing.

[Pinkjenny]

And so do I.

[ProfMargotBeauregarde]

People who haven't been through this come on board with their Waltons glasses on.

I worry about my children when they're with their dad, because I know he can't tolerate their fighting and will snap at them. He can't tell what my son wants/needs because he doesn't understand his word approximations or makaton. They all come back traumatised.

I think start with a few hours and work upwards.

My x has reduced the length of time he spends with the children since we first split up. Some people who haven't been through this will no doubt say that's terrible, but at least they come back still happy.

[Surfermum]

I know it's not the same, I was specifically talking about the child reacting at the handover - hence my question about how the rest of the holiday was.

My worry if I were in the op's shoes would be that he has never had them on their own for any length of time and how will he/they fare.

They certainly aren't with people they don't know though, they're going to be with their Dad who they see every day.

But I think the fact that they are newly separated is important. The children may be all over the place and maybe it's too soon for either parent to be taking them away from the other for 2 weeks.

Of course they will miss their Mum if they go with their Dad, but they will also miss their Dad if they go with their Mum - they have been used to living with him, and then seeing him and been put to bed by him every day since the split. That routine will be completely changed when they go away with their mum.

[JoPie]

I agree surfermum, I would hesitate to have them go away at all, but I don't think it would be as disruptive. Not because she's their mother or a woman, but because she has always been the primary caregiver. Still not ideal though, but if it was booked for the family and theres no refund, and he did turn down the offer, on a practical level I can see why the mother would go on the holiday.

I dunno. Tough one. Ideally, for me, either he should have sucked it up and one on the holiday, or the holiday should have been cancelled.
But if I was newly dumped/seperated and with 2 kids and a holiday paid for, I'd likely go. I still wouldn't let him take them for 2 weeks under those circumstance though. I admit theres an element of the double standard there though....

[Surfermum]

Yes, I think there's no point in wasting the holiday. And it's only a double standard if the reason for not allowing them to go with their Dad is it's too long to be away from her, given that they are used to seeing him daily. I don't think it's a double standard to say that it's because he isn't used to being their sole carer for any length of time - I'd be right behind her on that one.

[lou33]

not sure if this helps at all?

[fifisboys]

Woah...this has heated up....

Spicemonster - That is exactly it..its not that i dont want him to take them away at all, i hope to god that he does and i love the way he is still with them on a daily basis.

For me the issue is that he has never had them on his own..ie..the longest he has had them for is a few hours while ive been at work, never overnight.

I have never met the gf so would have to do that first...

And regards my holiday...dp still had the option to go..he chose his new gf!!

[rizlated]

I have 2 boys, 3.5 and 17 months and have been separated from dh since November. He has the boys twice a week & sees them most days and has done since we split. He took the boys to his fathers for 3 nights at easter and althogh i was worried about it and would rather he hadn't taken them i knew i had no right to stop him. if i want to take the boys away on holiday then he has got to have the same right.
However, i would be extremely nervous about it if he wanted to take them abraod for 2 weeks, especially with another woman who didn't know them. Equally I would expect him to be unhappy if the position was reversed. Not sure what point i am making actually.....

[Horton]

I'm not a lone parent and I wouldn't let my DH take my two year old away for two weeks without me because neither she nor I would like it. It doesn't have to be actual trauma for it to be a bad idea. 16 months and 3 months is far too little to be away from the primary caregiver for two weeks, IMO.