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Original poster

Help on behalf of a friend, wwyd?

27 replies

LouieStrumpet · 07/05/2009 13:53

Sorry don't really know where to put this and it could be long.

My friend (I will call her Sarah) is stuck in a difficult situation and doesn't know where to turn next. So I was hoping any MNers with experience with SS or other child help organisations can advise her.

Sarah has a dp who has a 13 year old sister (I'll call her Jan). Jan and the dp's mother is an eccentric woman who is a head teacher at a SN school - which makes this even more surprising.

When Jan was one month old, the mother decided that she was not getting enough attention from her current partner and so set herself on fire (that was her reason anyway - I am sure that there is a whole other lot of factors going on there but that is the story I got told). She then spent the next 8 months in the hospital while Sarah's dp and another younger sister looked after Jan.
According to her she had a full psychiatric report done and they found nothing wrong with her .

Sarah has known Jan now for eight years and she constantly wets herself, even at 13, and lies about the fact that she has done it. She also wanders around naked at home, and does a poo where she feels like it. She wears a nappy at night and sleeps in a sleeping bag because of the fact she wets herself. She is bullied a lot at school because of this.

The mother will not accept that there is anything wrong and thinks she will grow out of this behaviour. Sarah is desperate to help, but has tried talking about it to her dp and the mother and they basically tell her to mind her own business, and that one day she will be fine - double .

Anyway Sarah would like to know if she can anonymously do anything about this - she is nervous of ss in case they take Jan away, but she would like to ask if there is someway that Jan can be given the help she needs.

OP posts:
FabulousBakerGirl · 07/05/2009 14:01

Clearly someone needs to do something and sometimes having a child removed from the family home is the best and right thing to do.

She needs to phone social services.

norksinmywaistband · 07/05/2009 14:11

Agree, this child needs support/ assessment.
Ring Social services, TBH I am suprised your friend is hesitant about this
The phone call can be anonymous, for all the family know it could be a school friends child concerned about the wetting

CarGirl · 07/05/2009 14:16

The girl may have a bladder problem that needs treatment and not be behavioural at all. Please phone SS or NSPCC.

StewieGriffinsMom · 07/05/2009 14:19

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poshwellies · 07/05/2009 14:19

Contact SS ASAP

Original poster
LouieStrumpet · 07/05/2009 14:22

Thanks for your responses, I agree with you regarding ringing ss. I guess the reason my friend is hesitant is that the mother appears to be in all other respects loving, but just the physical stuff is ignored.

Oddly enough though she gets angry if someone else takes Jan to the doctor for anything, I guess maybe she would feel ashamed if anyone found out what her daughter was doing.

The NSPCC would be a good idea. What would they do?

OP posts:
cestlavielife · 07/05/2009 14:29

sorri but how ever "loving" the mother is, the child needs serious help from mental health services and medical asssessment to se if there is a problem.

this isnt physical - it is clearly emtional too.

"taking her into care" doesnt necessarily mean no contact - but the mother clearly needs help and jolting out of denial.

that is based on taking these facts as true - but you should call SS and the school she goes to should be made aware so they can put their child protection policy into action. if she is bullied at school surely teachers have been made aware?

Original poster
LouieStrumpet · 07/05/2009 14:31

Actually just reading back over your messages, I think I should tell her to ring ss as soon as possible.

I will let her know.

OP posts:
BitOfFun · 07/05/2009 14:33

She should make the call.

poshwellies · 07/05/2009 14:35

Agree with Cest

The situation makes me feel uneasy actually,I feel there is something quite disturbing going on with the Mother's behaviour/reaction with the daughter.

I Hope the daughter gets the help she so clearly needs AS SOON AS POSSIBLE..I would be making the call tbh.

StewieGriffinsMom · 07/05/2009 14:37

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Message withdrawn

StewieGriffinsMom · 07/05/2009 14:37

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whoisasking · 07/05/2009 14:40

I'm surprised the school haven't stepped in.

Original poster
LouieStrumpet · 07/05/2009 14:45

I know, whoisasking, but they haven't. According to Sarah though, the mother is adept at putting on a front and pretending everything is fine, plus she is a head teacher so has quite a bit of standing within her community I think.

I could make the call myself, I will see if my friend would let me do this.

OP posts:
Rhubarb · 07/05/2009 14:45

If she is a Headteacher at a SN school then it could be that she is in denial that her own child has SN. Does Jan show any other signs that could point to SN? Such as autism? Apart from the bullying, how is she socially?

Often when you work with very challenging children, you are reluctant to adopt the same role at home. So because she has to be on top of everything at school, and on the ball, she lets all of that slip when she gets home.

But no matter what the mother's problems are, the girl does need medical attention. I have a teenage niece who wets herself still and they are at a loss as to why. But she isn't incontinent the other way and you say this girl also walks around naked? In private or when there are visitors? Because there is nothing wrong with a liberal household and let's face it, her mum might find it easier to get her to the toilet without having to strip her first. But if she is allowing her dd to walk around naked in front of other people, then she is exposing her to danger.

Sarah can always discuss Jan with a friendly social worker so will tell her if there is anything they can do. They may pay a visit and have a chat with mum, find out if there are any issues. But your friend should expect trouble for this, it wouldn't take Sherlock Holmes to figure out who rang social services. They are unlikely to take her away however, if there is no evidence of abuse. If the mother is denying her child access to medical care, then social services can go to court to get the mother overruled, but even then the child needn't be taken away.

MadameCastafiore · 07/05/2009 14:48

Phone SS - what is happening to the girl is neglect and needs to be addressed.

Original poster
LouieStrumpet · 07/05/2009 14:57

Thanks Rhubarb for your post. I don't think she wanders around naked in front of other people - although she has done in front of Sarah so who knows if she has in front of anyone else.

It is a VERY liberal household, I am hoping I am not going to be royally flamed for saying this, but the mother has had all of her six children by six different fathers and I would probably call that a bit liberal (nothing wrong with that though!!!!).

It sounds more and more like a soap opera doesn't it?

And I think you are right that the friend should expect trouble, and I think that is also part of the reason she is hesitant, but at the same time you can't leave a child in a situation like that. IMO Jan needs both medical and psychological care, as my friend says, she is going to be very vulnerable when she gets older and although I have never meet Jan myself, it makes me feel quite a bit worried about her.

OP posts:
poshwellies · 07/05/2009 15:02

Shitting where you like is a little bit too liberal.

SueMunch · 07/05/2009 15:49

LouieStrumpet - I know of someone with a daughter aged 9 who has a similar problem although not as extreme.

Her daughter has problems - soiling herself at school etc. She has only recently been diagnosed with Attention deficit disorder. This followed years of bad behavoiur on the girl's behalf.

Although this has now been recognised and her daughter takes medication which helps, the 'accidents' are continuing.

Not sure it this related to how Jan behaves?

However, I suppose a key difference is the reluctance of the mother to admit there is a problem. Perhaps because they are so liberal they think that a medical opinion is invalid?

prettyfly1 · 07/05/2009 17:14

This girl is coming up to adolescence and if she has no awareness of personal or social boundaries, which is what this sounds like, then she is in very serious danger indeed. Please either contact ss yourself or get your friend to. Somethign in this situation just makes my skin creep a little and I wouldnt want to think of a child I know being raised in this way.

Rhubarb · 08/05/2009 07:40

Could it be that the mother has sought medical advice and does, in fact, know what is wrong with her daughter but she is afraid to admit this to others? Perhaps as her position of Head of a SN School she is in denial about her own daughter having SN?

Or she might simply think that the daughter's condition and treatment is none of anyone's business?

Walking around naked in front of your sister and mum is no big deal as far as I'm concerned, so long as she's not doing it in front of everyone. At 13 I'm sure she is able to say if she chooses to get dressed or not.

I'd tread carefully with this one, it doesn't sound that clear cut and there is no actual evidence of neglect or abuse. It's mainly the unknown. But perhaps a visit from SS might shake the mother up enough to reveal to her family what's going on and to accept further help.

Tortington · 08/05/2009 07:44

the role of a parent is to socialise a child.

if this child has special needs becuase of her environment.

then there need s to be intervention

Rhubarb · 08/05/2009 07:46

Oi Custy - have you recovered yet?

Tortington · 08/05/2009 07:50

yes thanks, just! what about you?

Rhubarb · 08/05/2009 07:53

Had a dodgy gut all week but I reckon it'll be fine with a few beers tonight! 'Twas a very excellent night and well worth it.

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