9 weeks to go and relationship still confusing

[hobbgoblin]

I have just over 9 weeks to go til 4th baby is born.

I separated from DP not long after finding out I was pg. We tried again for a while when I was about 4 months pregnant but it wasn't right and I've since moved out into my own place with DC.

Had a dreadful period around the time of my moving and there wasn't even a friendship there for a while.

The background is, exdp was separated when we met, and 18 months plus later he is still not divorced and won't be til end of May when final divorce hearing finally goes ahead. In all the time we have been together exdp has swung between charming and being a total wanker. A lot of it involved this grown man slagging me off behind my back and also beginning a v. short lived fling with a v. young girl during one of our 'off' phases.

I do realise that to have had such an on/off relationship over the course of less than two years does not bode well. However, I am pregnant and we have to sort things one way or another.

To be quite honest, he has been appalling - and I now see this clearly and rationally enough now that we have become more distant since my moving out. The only thing stopping me writing him off (apart from our unborn child) is the fact that in all the time we have been together his divorce has created HUGE strain. The financial implications have been and stand to be massive. This is not a man who deals with loss of financial standing well.

There has certainly been a correllation between divorce stress and our problems.

Anyway, as things stand we are now both single but see each other about twice a week. Still have sex, but not always - more often than not we will do something with each of our children like lunch or a walk or something.

My Exdp vehemently opposed the idea of having a baby. He is mid 40s and did not want any more children - was looking forward to less stress and possibly winding down business for a chilled pre-retirement phase. He could have afforded to do all this had he not divorced and certainly had he not met me and ended up helping me become pregnant! What's done is done however and I chose to have the baby and accept my decision. He has had to deal with my decision.

My issue is this:

ExDp has no commitment to me or the baby and yet he is still very much in my life despite saying he would walk away completely in the beginning. He says he still feels very mixed up about things but tells me to relax and enjoy how we are now. Admittedly, how we are now is relaxed and we are getting on better than we have done for some time. I just feel anxious that he could still just never make any more of a commitment to me and/or his child.

There are other threads on this, by me where mnetters have posted on the likelihood of him walking in and out of my life to suit him.

It's true that if I pressure him to define what it is exactly we are doing then he doesn't want to know, and equally the more distant I am the more he wants to be around me.

He makes a point sometimes of stating our friends not a couple' status and yet does not seem to see an end to this.

I feel very vulnerable and the worst imagineable would be for him to disappear completely soon after the baby is born when I am most fragile.

Any thoughts?

Dadnetters' advice would be good.

This is both painful and serious because it involves our parental roles too.

OMG this could be my longest ever post.

oh hobb - dunno what to say really to help you here - obviously pg hormones aren't helping you but he is still getting what he wants out of this and leaving you hanging, isn't he.

He isn't going to commit. If you are lucky, he will see the baby and fall in love with it and he will be unable to walk away.... but in your heart of hearts, do you really think this is likely?

All the while you let him use you as a sex buddy he has no reason to walk away - he really has the perfect relationship there. I think that may end when your baby is born, unless you are one of those freakish amazing women who can even contemplate sex soon after giving birth! If he doesn't get what he wants out of it, he may go seek it elsewhere.

So that this is still messing with your head - I think your best way forward IS to prepare for the worst case scenario in your head and then deal with any improvements on that as and when/if they happen.

thumbwitch, thanks for sticking with me on this, again!

mrsjammi thanks for your perspective.

I suppose I am happy with things as they are, it's just the prospect of no further commitment that I would be unhappy with.

I know that until divorced and financially re-established this man is going to be nightmare to be around full time, that's just him. I am enjoying my space and not having his stress encroach upon me and my DC as it did when we were under same roof most of the time. The time we do have together is argument free and enjoyable for him, me, the children. He texts often to say what an enjoyable day it was or nice evening and so on.

However, the niggle is there that I am just a fuck buddy and the emotional investment is not there from him.

I do still love him, perhaps in a more realistic way than before when I was afraid of the end. So, yes it is tough loving him when he is too caught up in his stress to properly love me back like he once did, perhaps fleetingly.

Just don't know whether we will regain what we started with pre-divorce proceedings or whether he has long since given up on us and is just making me a stop gap.

Something tells me it would have been easier for him to walk away when I moved out and get his fucks elsewhere. Nobody is making him involve himself with me now, and the sex is not such a major part of what we do that it is the only thing we enjoy together iyswim>?

well, if I'm being completely cynical (something I'm really good at!) he has one major advantage in having sex with you as opposed to anyone else - you are already pg so can't get pg! But that might be just mean.

Obviously there are still things about you that he likes, possibly even loves, but I don't like (on your behalf) his refusal to acknowledge that you are any kind of couple.

I have a friend (single) who had a girlfriend for 3 years and never publicly acknowledged her as his gf. Even though she went to functions etc as his partner, he just would not refer to her as his gf. Eventually, when she turned 30, she asked him where the relationship was going and whether it had a more involved future - he thought not so they split up. afaik, he wasn't exactly heartbroken over it!

If only someone could wave a magic wand for you and make him and your feelings for him just not matter for the next few weeks - can you manage to concentrate on the loveliness of looking forward to meeting your new baby without the attendant worries about its dad?

Think only of yourself and your DC - current and about to be - try and put him out of your mind as much as you can; don't call him, let him come to you if he wants.

Think about all the lovely things you can do with your DC when the new one is here and above all look after yourself.

Well, shall try and put my worrying aside for now and sleep! Thank you.

Admittedly, I've had a hormonal sort of day today after a good week and lovely weekend. He came over yesterday evening to watch 4D scan DVD with me and was all pretty nice.

Anyhow, to add some perspective for any morning responders, in light of thumb's thoughts, this is how he is being now;

Has offered to do gardening for me and has done several DIY bits round my new house.

As mentioned, has invited me for numerous lunches/walks/barbecues at his with the children.

Phones and texts to see how I am daily and texts things like 'thinking of you x' here and there

Always interested in baby when he comes here and spends ages feeling her move about in there.

Has admitted having mixed emotions and not certain of whether he will attend birth/how he will feel post birth.

Bought baby clothes this weekend and came over with them on a surprise visit.

But, yes, still he sees himself as single.

I think you need sgb's advice...

I think once you have the baby and you are tired and stressed yourself, he'll find somebody else.

Sorry- but he just sounds like he is telling you and telling you that you are NOT in a relationship any more.
He's enjoying your company and having sex with you. But that's it I reckon.

He keeps saying he's confused and that he doesn't know......but i reckon that is code (even if he doesn't know it yet) for "this is lovely just now". But as soon as the baby comes and you are less available to him emotionally and physically then he will either love the baby and stick around for baby and find a new partner, or just freak and run off completely.

I hope against all hopes that I'm wrong, i haven't posted to you much but I am aware of the whole thing.

At this point you need to protect yourself. And don't give away too much to him.
I sound like your mum (!) but you may well get very hurt.

I hope it all works out- if you got back togehter do you think you'll ever forgive him?

Hobb, I have followed your story from the beginning I think.

Here is my opinion.

You are a couple in every way but name and that is obviously his choice. It sounds like he is very fond of you but is holding a large part of himself back, so that if (when?) he decides to walk away he will find it easier. Perhaps he feels he is protecting you too by not acknowledging your coupledom?

I think you are a fuckbuddy and a "safe" haven at the moment, albeit one he obviously does like to spend time with. He knows he has more stress to go through re. the divorce/financial stuff etc and you are compliant and seem, at the moment, to be just gratefully accepting his attention completely on his own terms.

I too worry that when you need more, in the form of emotional and practical support, after the baby is born, he will melt away.

You are in a hiatus at the moment. That will be change immensely when the baby arrives and I suspect, very much not to his prescription.

Very difficult situation for you. Are you willing to hang on and see what enfolds? Or do you want to take the control back?

Thanks for the considered replies. It's difficult to know whether to take a pessimistic approach to this or not. Obviously in so doing there is an element of self protection but it does make it hard to enjoy the positives and not to feel like there is a shadow hanging over any rebuilding bridges between us. On the flip side, if I invest myself in the now I stand to be very much more hurt later on.

He could so easily have moved on from when I moved out, it seems odd to me that he wants to keep up this contact and involvement when clearly it will be more painful for both of us to call it a day after this period of enjoying each other's company again. That is despite his keeping me at arm's length. There again, he is male and probably can be more emotionally detached if he makes that choice.

I can sort of see this carrying on indefinitely and without playing games I think I will have to force a decision very soon after the divorce is finalised.

Even though to some extent he is having his cake and eating it, there surely must be something missing for him with this arrangement? So, it seems silly that he'd want to continue with it anymore than I do.

I have tried calling an end to things as they are but he just doesn't go, it's like he won't let me call an end. This is very hard because I don't really want to. It takes a lot for me to push him away as much as I have done.

"Even though to some extent he is having his cake and eating it, there surely must be something missing for him with this arrangement?"

hobb, this is where men and women can frequently differ enormously - don't project your wants and feelings about the situation onto him as he has already shown that he can cope quite well with the way things are, thank you very much. What would be interesting to find out is how he would react if you were to find another man - that might clarify things for him, but then again not - at the moment you are "his" to pick up and put down as he wants. He won't want anyone else to have you but he won't want to carry you around all the time either - he LOVES having his cake and eating it!

Try not to think forward - enjoy everything at face value in the here and now, and stop thinking about the future, even tomorrow. If you just relax and take each day as it comes, all will be well. What will be, will be in the end - there isn't an awful lot you can do about it now.

good advice, tw

although, I do have to say, depending on what personaily type you are, it can be difficult to sit back and let someone else make the decisions

there is something she can do, she is not powerless, it depends on how much she wants to change the situation at this point

personally, I would not ride along on the whims of another but at some stages in your life, perhaps the "easier" way is better

AnyFucker, I agree she isn't powerless, but it isn't in her power to make him decide at the moment either - the only decisions hobb can take are to let things ride as they are or push for complete separation - and in her situation I would opt for the former until the baby is born. THEN make the tough choices.

Thanks for helping narrow down and clarify my dilemma.

It is a question of whether I play wait and see and then measuring that against how much hurt I am storing up the longer this status quo continues.

It is almost impossible not to become more emotionally attached the longer we continue as we are though.

I think if I were to force the issue now, he would walk away. He is not stable enough in himself to offer full commitment. He is in a selfish place. I can justify this while he has the divorce to deal with, along with coming to terms with impending fatherhood, but not forever.

The lack of control over this is very hard. It eats away at the mutual respect and damages the power balance, of course it does. Plus, nobody likes to feel powerless do they?!

No idea how stong or weak I'll feel when DD is born. It could be very bad or I could feel very strongly protective of my DD's feelings in all this, and whilst I may be a sucker for allowing my self to be thrown crumbs in this relationship, I may grow the balls to demand more on her behalf.

Yes, he may be committed to the baby but it also affects her indirectly if he is treating me poorly so this indifference is going to have to stop one way or another.

"It is almost impossible not to become more emotionally attached the longer we continue as we are though"

hobb, this is the one area you DO have control, even though you might not feel as though you do.
You can CHOOSE to get more involved and hope that each good day is paving the way to better things; or you can choose to say "another good day, that's great, it could all change tomorrow so I'll just be thankful for this one and let tomorrow take care of itself".

The trick of it is not to build expectation. You mention the status quo - keep it as a status quo, in your head keep saying "this is the way it is just now, there is no certainty that it will continue". Live in the moment only.

It is only a few weeks now until your DD is born - as I said, things will change as soon as she is here and you will know pretty quickly which way things are likely to go. Until then though, don't speculate, don't hope, just BE.

Sorry if I'm repeating myself!

I can see that tw and I have a slightly different perspective here...

I think you have to be a pretty emotionless and hard-hearted person to just "be" and prevent yourself getting in deeper emotionally.

I fear for that for 99.9% of women that is an impossible task (not saying you are cold or anything, tw )

especially with hobb being in such a hormonal, vulnerable position with the birth of the baby etc

in fact, as I think about it, that statement also strengthens the argument to do nothing until all the dust has settled

however, I fear this blokes particular "dust" will never settle while a lovely, compliant lady like Hobb lays her whole life open to him to pick and choose just the comfortable bits he is interested in

I have to disagree with you, AnyFucker, because I know that it is possible to take control of how you react to anything - it is a choice, albeit at the moment for hobb her ability to make the choice will be harder because of the hormones rampaging around.

It is not about being emotionless, cold and hard - no I am not, btw - it is about protecting yourself by looking at things in a particular way and not just running with your feelings.

Suggesting that 99.9% of women are victims of their feelings (paraphrasing here) is a tad disempowering, imo.

I kind of agree with both of you.

I have been assertive via mail this afternoon. Didn't get me ANY further tbh.

It really is a case of cut him out and mean it or put up with bare minimum for the sake of temporarily avoiding a load of upset.

tis a human thing thumbwitch to find it difficult to switch off emotions and feelings

my post was not meant to inflammatory towards you tw, was trying to empathise with hobb

I just know I wouldn't be able to put-up and shut-up, pushing my upset and anger below the surface to keep a man happy

but then I am a fiery caaaahhh

oh trust me, it's nothing to do with keeping him happy at all - it's all about hobb protecting herself and doing what is right for her at the mo - and imo, keeping herself calm and on an even keel at the mo is the better option.
Plenty of time to sort it out when the baby is born.

and I don't want to sound like I'm harping, I'm not trying to pick a fight at all, but I was suggesting keeping a check on her feelings, not switch them off altogether - that would be madness.
But hobb doesn't have to allow them to get deeper and stronger, just because the man is having a few nice days. She can choose to keep them where they are as I said before.

hobb, best of luck with whatever you decide

and look after yourself and that new baby

Finished it.

Fucker.

see, I knew we were in agreement really, just coming from different angles!

hobb - keep posting whenever you need input to help clarify your thoughts and feelings, but above all think about YOU and your DC and don't worry about him for now.