MIL has been driving me mad recently and I need to rant!

[jenwa]

Sorry just wanted to rant really!
DD1 in playgroup and there all day on a weds. Her cousins are there in the morning with her but get picked up at lunch time by grandma (who is also DDs Grandma) DD gets very upset when she see's grandma as she wants to go to but she spends the day at playgroup and her cousins will be attending all day after the summer holidays. When MIL picks up the boys she always makes a point of going up to DD which then upsets her as she realises she is not going home with her! Last term we did a library visit, I went and so did inlaws, when we got back to playgroup the staff took DD off me to take her in as they knew she would get upset seeing me going (was lunch time so was coming back at 3 to collect her) so I let them take her but then MIL went in after her and took her a toy to cheer her up which is defeating the whole point of the staff taking her in to avoid upset, I was angry so went in and took the toy away and told MIL not to do this and that DD needs to learn that she stays at playgroup and cant have toys etc and not fair on other children.
THis week when I collected DD the staff told me that MIL had been in to collect boys and had upset DD by going over to her and they had to ask her to leave and tell her DD would be fine. MIL rang me later to say DD had been hysterical and shaking and that was before she had been into get the boys (this was from watching her though the window) anyway I told her Playgroup had told me what had happened and she got annoyed saying that DD had called her over and if she calls for Grandma then Grandma will NOT ignore her and will go over to her. Anyway I told them we had arranged for DD to be eating her lunch on the other side of the room so when Grandma comes again they wont be able to see each other as well, MIL agreed but said if DD called her she would still go to her, I told her not to as this makes DD more u pset, she then siad she would still go etc and basically will do what she wants!
Spoke to playgroup today who said DD was NOT crying prior to MIL going in and DD did NOT call "grandma" and she went over by herself and upset DD! DD also said Grandma came over to her. basically MIL does not want anyone else caring for DD and it is driving me mad. They also have issues with bloke who works there (he is lovely and is a BIl of one of the staff and has gone through the right procedures etc to work there) but MIL thinks its odd that DD likes him and he allows her to sit on his lap at times! Thats another story.
Anyway, it has really upset me and I feel in the middle now as it has caused an issue at playgroup. I did buy them some biscuits toay to apologise for the stress as I feel so uncomfortable about it.
DH wot get involved as his mum is precious and does not like to upset her. She always gets her way and DH has always said to keep her happy and she will be fine It is annoying when your children are involved and she is telling me conflicting info and basically does not like DD going to the playgroup. What SHE wants is to get DD with the boys and have her at her house where she feeds her a pack of ham and a bunch of grapes and says how well she ate
Sorry I really needed to rant, have just had a stressy time with it and wanted a nice birthday yesterday without dealing with all that crap too!

Sorry my spelling is bad, I am typing and not really looking

Your situation sounds very similar to mine but with my mother rather than MIL. She adores her granddaughters but quite often drives me mad with her interfering and attitude that she knows best. HOWEVER, as my MIL shows absolutely zero interest, I know which grandparenting style I would rather have any day....It is annoying and yes you do have to bite your tongue quite often but at the end of the day it sounds like she adores your daughter and that is worth its weight in gold.

How did you arrive at such a conclusion?. Am genuinely curious. As mentioned before, people who thankfully do not come from backgrounds where this sort of behaviour is played out on a daily basis do find all this hard to comprehend. Just because you haven't seen it at first hand does not mean to say it does not exist.

Atilla - this was your post in direct response to one by me. The inference is clearly there and directed at me.

You are now telling me that my views are in a minority - which is just another way of shutting me down because I disagree with your point of view.

I don't dismiss your views out of hand, I respect your right to those views, in this case I am just questioning them, that's all.

Accio as it feels like you have come under attack for your views I just wanted to say I support your comments too. It sounds like her MIL is interfering and perhaps over controlling but that doesn't mean she doesn't do it for the right reasons, i.e. love. I feel the MIL is coming under attack disproportionately. I don't think from the information we have got she deserves hatred.

keevamum - . You know sometimes the "toxic" diagnosis is bang on. In this case (sorry Atilla) I just really believe it is, as keevamum says, disproportionate and could be more harmful than helpful to jenwa's relationship with her MIL.

Totally agree with pinot grigio. The MIL is being a bit annoying but to label her as toxic etc is a ludicrous over reaction.

She loves and hugs her granddaughter? And that's the extent of the trouble?

MILs simply cannot win. I can imagine that the exact same 'toxic, controlling' diagnosis would be given if the OP had said 'My MIL picks up her grandsons and ignores my daughter'.

I know mumsnet is meant as a support forum, but I find it odd how in any MIL thread it's always 'she's toxic, she's a bitch' no matter what the MIL has done.

I know that it's often fair and justified, but in years to come are you ready to hand over your son and his kids to somebody who doesn't want you around and doesn't consider you to be your grandchildrens flesh and blood? Her son was once to her what your kids are to you - the centre of her world for decades. And now she has to shut the fuck up about him and his kids or be labelled as toxic. It could happen to you...

actually accio ther is alot more to it which I said I would not go in to and was more concerned re the issue at playgroup. If I did not take the toy away (which was not at all OTT) she would continue to do this on a weekly basis. Taking the toy away was not permanent and DD got it when she came home, I did not feel that it was fair on the other children who could see a toy being left for DD on her table with her lunch whilst they never had anything and the staff at the playgroup feeling uncomfortable about it as they remove all toys belonging to the children away at meal times and MIL went and asked them where DD sat so she could put the toy there without telling them what she was doing, the staff informed me that they would have moved it anyway as it was unfair and would have upset DD by MIL Leaving her a gift and making it obvious she had left.
I do not want to keep my MIL at a distance as we she is very good to my DD, she does however but far too many toys which has become expected from DD and does not feed them that great but I can cope with that in the grand scheme of things. What I dissaprove of it when I ask MIL not to do something and she goes ahead and does it and no one will stand up to her. She is a lovely person but can turn not very nice when it does not go her way and to me when it is my DD then she should respect this.
My SIL had an issue when she requested MIL not to use a baby walker at her house as she did not agree but MIL said tough she was going to anyway as wanted to. It is that behaviour that upsets me when it is to do with our requests and MIL disregards them as they do not suit her.
You also talk about better communication and this is my whole point! I have asked her not to do something and she tells me she will do it anyway, I have told her it upsets DD but she still will do it! The nursery staff has also made her aware yet she still does it, it is not our communication that is an issue it is her going against our wishes that is an issue.
Her family do not want to upset her and give in on many occassions regarding situations and I feel I dont want to let it go when she is upsetting DD. I know that when I have given in in the past she then continues doing things over and over so it is best with MIL to say "no" straight away.
DH was asked by MIL if they could havd DD one day, DH said yes to which I said "we are all out tomorrow" DH said to me "its fine just tell her yes and we will tell her no in the morning" this is how they work to please her at the time then tell her no the next day rather than upset or cause tension in front of her This is what often happens and boy I get confussed. DH will say its fine we will just sort it tomorrow!
DH has on many occasions said "if MIL asks about so and so tell her yes"! He also tells FIL not to tell MIL if we have been round when she is not there as she would get upset knowing we went round and she missed our DD!

I do want to add again that she does love them all and I do appreciate her for all she does and what she does for them and us, she can be very full on at times. I also feel sad that she had not many friends and that her life is purely for the grandchildren. They are doing a house up at the mo and FIL works hard to do this but MIL asks him to pick up grandsons alot and help look after them so they can not get on with house etc. I know this is their argument and FIL does get annoyed but its up to them to deal with that but I do sometimes feel sorry for FIl as she does control him and would be more than happy to have the grandchildren there everyday rather than finish their house!
I would rather them be loving as I know people who have parents and in laws who dont bother but all my friends do find MIL slighty odd at times and feel sorry for FIl and canat believe how intense she is at times. I know I am lucky to have family around me but sometimes I also want to be able to have my say in what my children do and not feel on edge or looked down on with my decisions I have made etc.
keevamum I agree with you and am lucky they care etc, I do not hate her at all though. Just annoying at times

Hi Jenwa

"Intense" people like this are very difficult to deal with but you must be firm with her or she will continue to cause upset to you and your family unit. Both of you will need to continue to stand up to this women - as DDs parents you have the final say re her care.

I would not actually describe your MIL as being particularly pleasant (even though she does a lot for her grandchildren). Why do I say that - her overall need for control gets in the way of everything else.

This can become a problem in that if people give way to this MIL all the time she will come to expect her way only and ride roughshod over everyone's wishes (as has happened to date with preschool too). Her own son has stated that, "keep her happy and she will be fine ".

For all that disagree with the "toxic" term and you have every right to I am not trying to villify this MIL or actually cast her as a hate figure. I certainly do not call all MILs toxic or a "bitch" - have never used that word to describe any MIL. Some DIL's can also be difficult too and I accept that. I am just trying to offer a viewpoint on why she (the MIL) possibly behaves as she does.

Accio - meant to reply to you earlier. Am sorry to read that you've had problems with your parents. I just assumed (and wrongly in your case for which I apologise) that some people who come out and call my comments an overreaction fortunately have no real knowledge of what such dysfunction in terms of control can do within the wider family. That has certainly happened before now. You acknowledge that sometimes the "toxic" term is accurate. Time will only tell with regards to Jenwa's MIL.

Okay Jenwa - you know what, you don't need to justify yourself to me and I certainly don't want you to be in a position where you feel you need to say more on here than you want to. You came on her to vent not to defend your position.

Labelling MILs as toxic is sometimes too easy IMO and often DILs are just not willing to accept their own role in the situation. I think the Susan Forward book clearly states this and suggests that without DILs/SILs accepting responsibility for their part in difficult relationships then there cannot be a resolution.

Anyway, all I know is it's a lot more complicated than just appplying the label "toxic" and then walking away. If you genuinely want to resolve the problems you have with your MIL, then there will be a way through. Navigate that way with your daughter in mind because she may adore your MIL and want a relationship with her.

MorrisZapp - as the mother of one son I hear you loud and clear. If he ever marries then it is my intention to do my best to be a good MIL, I only hope he marries someone with equally good intentions towards her new family

Atilla - my mum is dead now but when I first married she resented the presence of my MIL intensely, would not accept that she was a part of my family now and actively encouraged/bullied me to shut her out. This was just the tip of the iceberg and I do know that the term toxic can be fairly applied in many cases.

jenwa, the next time this happens, could you say to your MIL that there is one thing that you both agree on, that if your dd sees your mil, she is happy to wave but beyond that upsets her. And whilst you are sure (!!!) that mil does not mean to upset your dd, that is what seems to happen when she goes over to her - and obviously (!!!) you do not want to upset her again...

Say that just for the next time, the nursery staff have suggested that they will have the boys ready and that she can wave if she happens to see dd but that they want to see what will happen for 1 week if she doesn't go over to her. Point out that she is the adult and regardless of what she thinks (those auditory hallucinations of your dd calling her over! ) she is just to wave, that dd has been briefed and knows that granny is going to wave but not talk to her or call to her and she is not going to call to granny, just wave too and she is looking forward to trying this.

It also helps to get the nursery staff involved and thus lessen you as the baddy DIL, sounds like they are on your side, as it can't be nice for them to have to calm down your dd and the stress that it causes her and others in her room.

Make it just a one week experiment to start with, and maybe if you can bear it, sweeten it with a 'and if you DON'T upset DD, we can come and see you at the end of the day/some other time as a special treat.' BUt if she does go in then you won't go to see her when she wants you to.

HOpefully you will be able to make it sound better than I can as it is late and my brain isn't working properly!

Hopefully it will all go swimmingly well (or at least a bit better!) and you can then say that (through gritted teeth if necessary!) 'didn't WE do well at making sure DD was not upset when you picked up boys at nursery. Would be much better for everybody if we could continue like this'.

How do you get one with your sil? Would she be able to help by saying that the boys are upset by their granny going over to your dd and upsetting her/that they are in on plan and are going to be all ready for her to pick up/??? whatever so that she can't pretend that she heard dd calling/boy needs to pop to loo etc.

And Will nursery be involved enough to say that they will actively stop her from going over to see her when she gets there - even just 'reminding' her that 'this week we are ALL trying plan to make sure that dd doesn't get upset - remember just wave, boys don't need loo yadda yadda - pre-empting everything she might come up with to get to your dd...

good luck!

sorry, didn't realise that was going to be quite such a long post!

Accio, I see what you are saying about when you read the OP that the MIL didn't really come accross as toxic. I mean, it looks totally normal for a grandmother to want to go to her grandchild if the grandchild is calling for her.
But first and foremost this is a support board and the OP is obviously upset by the MIL's behaviour. So what to do?
You said that Attilla generalised with the word toxic. The reason toxic is a good word to describe certain people is because of the insidious nature of their behaviour. What this means is that they are very good at appearing to be the innocent party, while their victim ends up looking like the mad, angry one and the person who is to blame. They are very good at playing the victim themselves if anyone stands up to them.

So my point is you can't just say that the woman isn't bad just because she hasn't done anything that you can pin your finger on.
All we can do is go by the OP's feelings, and she definitely feels controlled and that something is amiss. So at the very least this MIL has no respect for the child's mother.
Yes, there is a small chance that the OP is totally overreacting and being unreasonable, but how can that be when this whole thing is about her DD. So the OP ultimately has the say in whether something is okay or not. She is the mother here and she knows whats best for her child. I think it takes a particularly arrogant person (this MIL) to think they know a child better than its own mother does.

Sakura - You are right, this is a support board and for that reason I'm not going to post any further on this thread as no way do I wish to upset jenwa. As I said in a previous post she came on to vent about a problem that is real to her and I respect that.

jenwa - I sincerely hope you and your dh are able to resolve this.

Just wanted to say thank you for all your comments.
Today when MIL went to collect boys the nursery staff actaully made sure DD was in the loo and washing habds etc so that there was no awkward atmosphere, DD would not see boys go and MIL come in and MIL would not be able to go and see her so it all worked out well and DD was fab today and NO tears so I am happy now

well, i'm glad today was fine for your dd..... but you haven't actually solved anything have you re how your mil behaves have you?!

blimey, a grandma who loves her grandchildren, how very odd

i think your own issues with your mil are clouding your judgement here, sorry

stop being so bloody difficult. there are plenty of people on here with parents who are not the slightest bit interested in their grandchildren. count your daughter lucky she has a grandma who loves her.

"not flesh and blood" oh SHUT UP.

'Yes, she is flesh and blood but I don't class her as my family. My DS and DH are my family. '

I find this very odd, especially as the child is a DS- it means that your family will be down to you and your DH if you have a DIL with that attitude.

I think that OP and her MIL have a lot of issues that need sorting out-unless they go and live further apart.

wilkos and Piscesmoon I never said those things you have mentioned re "not flesh and blood"
I only was upset that dd was upset at playrougp when MIL was going in and upsetting her. I also have said that MIL DOES love her and is very good in other ways so am not saying what an awful MIL she is. I would also say these things if it was about MY mother or SIL so it is not the issue of her being a MIL here. I also know there are alot of people who are very unfortunate not to have a devoting MIL or family nearby. I was however concerned that MIL was upsetting DD at nursery by going over to her and the nursery satff were also concerned as it was MIL feeling upset as SHE wanted to go to DD to see her and DD would then cry once MIL found her at her table.
The situatuion has been sorted and hopefully will be fine.
I think you or anyone else would find that YOU would also be upset if your DC was getting upset by a situation and when you had asked for it not to be done that you were ignored making your DC more upset

control to be honest No But the nursery have been able to take away the situation and if DD is happier then that is fine. IF she is just not in the rom when MIL goes in then it is easier as no one is upset or uncomfortable. I will carry on as normal and will always stand my ground where DD is concerned. I have no issues with them seeing her or having her etc I just have issues when I ask for something not be done and it is ignored and when it is not helpful to DD.

Sorry jenwa-I didn't mean you-I can't remember who it was-I just thought it peculiar that she wanted to lose her DS as soon as he gets a DP!! If I get a DIL she gets quite a large family-my DS is not a foundling!

Glad it is sorted. It helps to live further away IMO and then you don't get that sort of interference.

NO worries, just wanted to be clear that I dont hate my mil just find it hard that she can not listen at times as she is used to everyone doing what she wants. Just upsetting when it upsets DD!

If I moved away surely that would mean they would have to come stay for a hoiday and my parents too dont think I could put up with any of them in my house for too long

I have to say I think it's incredibly narrow-minded and ignorant of someone to suggest that one should be eternally grateful for any love/attention that a grandparent bestows on a grandchild, even if that attention comes shrouded in destructive, over-bearing, controlling, manipulative, selfish behaviour. You should just count yourself lucky, right?

Wrong. That's like saying it's okay for a husband to hit his wife as long as he loves her.

By piscesmoon on Wed 29-Apr-09 22:11:03

"I find this very odd, especially as the child is a DS- it means that your family will be down to you and your DH if you have a DIL with that attitude.

The difference is that I won't be an utter bitch to my DiL. I wouldn't treat my worst enemy the way MiL has treated me.

I had a granny like this.
She just did what she wanted, she told me my parents were rubbish...she told them they were rubbish, she disregarded my parent's wishes when she looked after us.

She ordered my grandfather around all the time "do this", "fetch that". She was always nice as pie to me...till I realised she was tring to have me as an ally against my parents, real emotional manipulation.
From an outside perspective everyone said how much time she spent with her grand children...

My parents pacified her for years and never stood up to her.

I really wish they had, it was awful being tugged around in that emotional dynamic.

Just be aware of her behaviours and don't let your children be upset by it.

Having a grand child is not a passport to over riding the parents' wishes and imposing your own.