Where to go from here?

[indecisivemumof4]

Hi, I am new to this and am amazed at how some of the posts are so true to my situation so I thought I would ask my question!

I have been married for 14 years to a lovely, kind, generous, funny, intelligent guy who is a great father to our 4 DC's. He is also a nasty, maniputive, cruel, hatefilled, sad man who thinks that I am out to get him and screw him for his money, the children etc etc. He is only like this to me and of course is charming to everyone else. He can go for several months being lovely and I think it's all fine and then he gets his 'look' and it's all over for the next few days. I have sobbed and sobbed over the years, believed it to be me, screamed at him and even hit him (Now who's the mad one, look at you, you're saying I need help).
Anyway, last year I'd had enough, I'd hit 40 and decided that I wasn't going to drive around sobbing my heart out trying to persuade myself not to drive into a tree and end it all. So I told him very calmly and detached that it was over if it continued and he was terrified. Since then he has been a lot better, even though there have been occasions so he isn't 'cured'. Also, I have my suspicions that I've just adapted my life to avoid any flare ups. (Not bought any clothes for the kids in shops etc!)

The big problem now is that we have no sexlife because for me I can't allow myself to become that emotionally involved again only to be hurt. (I promised myself I wouldn't be) He obviously isn't happy with this and to be honest neither am I.

He also won't hear that it's him he thinks its my issue. He knows its because of the destructive relationship we've had but feels as things have been better so should I be!

We've reached the point where it's choice time. It seems so difficult though to split up as really we get on and things have been much worse in the past.

We have discussed counselling but I'm not sure as they will encourage us to try and start one and I so don't want to. I really wish he would have an affair but he won't as he doesn't want to jeopardise him getting custody of the DC's.

Has anyone else been through this and got through the other side? or is it all over realistically.

I feel sorry for him really, he had a terrible childhood where he was deserted by both parents and he is driving me to do the same. Then it will prove to him that all women are betrayers. However, I also can't live like this for ever, or can I? How do you know?

I think you want to 'push' him to do something so that you can justify splitting up the family.

My h had an affair and believe me you do not want that (unless you want to be able to blame him for breakdown).

Is the no sex thing just with him? My libido is at rock bottom at the moment and i wondeer if i am just 'protecting' myself at the moment too (but i think mine is more an age thing tbh).

You have obviously not forgiven him for the past have you - but also because things are better cant justify splitting because of it either. Whereas is he were to go back to his old ways you would have the 'excuse' to leave.

I would encourage counselling - even if it is to help you seperate properly.

Good luck

I symathise, its very difficult when you see a side to his personality thats concealed to everyone else. A lot of women have been through something similar including myself, and yes there are plenty of threads on similar topics.
What is it honestly that you both want? You say you would like him to have an affair which suggests that you want an excuse to kick him out, although thats unnecessary because what he has put you through with his mood swings etc is bad enough, and I can totally understand how you feel about wanting to end it all because I used to feel the same, its emotially draining and why would you want to live your life putting up with this emotional abuse. There could be many reasons he behaves like this, work stress, perhaps he's jealous of you, or it may go back to his childhood.
The best thing you can do is not to get upset, show him your calm and in control.
If you both love each other and want to try to make this relationship work then you should try marriage counselling as a start off, they may then refer your husband for seperate counselling to deal with his issues arising from his childhood. In this respect you will have to be firm and emphasise its the only way forward to making your relationship work. On the other hand, you could try a trial seperation to lessen the impact of an eventual split. There will be other people along soon to offer some advice but I just didn't want to leave your thread unanswered.

Hmmm Holly you have just reeled of all the perpetuated myths surrounding emotionally abusive men - and basically made it the fault of his childhood, his work, and the OP without putting any of the blame for what frankly sounds like appalling behaviour where it belongs with the OP's H!
OP read the EA thread and read the Lundy Bancroft book (google it) and decide whether your H fits but trust me his behaviour is not normal nor is it your fault, I also didnt want my H to touch me and why would I when he treated me like shit and called me every name under the sun, never helped in any way etc etc..but of course that was my fault and the reason he had an affair - FWIW the affair made it no easier to leave him

Macdoodle, Not quite sure what you're talking about, I'm offering my opinion to Indecisive's situation based on what she's said in her post without trying to confuse her situation with mine or anyone elses.

Thanks both of you. Amazing that from a short post you both really get the situation.

The sex thing is just with him, I don't feel I have a low libido.
I do want to push him as an excuse you're right. One thought I had was to start to behave like other people do, doing things that I know he hates but are 'normal' in other peoples eyes and see how he responds. Then if it has been better purely as I subconsciously have been adjusting the way I live then I will know if things really have improved. These normal things are seriously, buying kids clothes from a shop, not a carboot or charity shop. (We are not hard up), buying the kids new shoes/ trainers, and clothes for me.
Then presumably, if he is able to let me do this then my trust in him will improve. I almost have to 'test' the improvement I think.
Otherwise, if there has been no improvement really the answer is there.

We will probably do counselling, although we have been before twice and interestingly once were split up.

He doesn't want to split up as his children are his life. He would be absolutely hideous if we did, even though I would agree to 50% custody.

I think I do want to split up but of course don't want to devastate the kids. Do you sacrifice yourself for them?? Difficult question unless things are so bad it's worse for them to stay.

Thanks for reading.

Sorry, when I wrote this second message, macdoodle yours wasn't there.

I do agree with your point though that excuses are not good enough. I have Lundy's book in my basket on Amazon but haven't clicked buy yet. Maybe I should.

Buy it, it is well worth it.

I am sorry but not only allowing you to buy you and your children's clothes from a charity shop or car boot is absolutely horrendous. Out of interest where does he buy his own? It sounds like he doesn't considers you equal at all.

I know exactly what you mean about wanting him to have an affair - ie a cast iron excuse to kick his arse out rather than the drip, drip of many minor and medium abusive episodes that all add up but alone cannot justify (to you anyway) breaking the family up. I used to imagine walking into a pub and catching my ex sitting, kissing someone else or coming home and finding him here with someone else so there could be no persuading myself that "it is not that bad" and not worth being a single parent over. I totally understand where you are coming from with that.

Indecisive, just read your latest post about having to buy yours and you kids clothes from charity shops, now that isn't on, and yes I am also interested to know where your DH buy his clothes from?

He buys his from charity shops too, so he isn't being unequal, just tight! Thats the hard thing, it's not that he doesn't allow me, it's just that if I do I get the difficult questions, he goes on and on saying did they really need them, had their feet really grown and it takes all evening and I can't bear it. It's so clever, he never actually says don't do it just makes it so unpleasant that you find yourself walking past the shops because you can't bear the fight.

He's clever.

Yes he is isn't he.

I don't really know what to suggest, men like this don't change. I left mine.

Please dont stay for the children - also you should not put up with him staying just because the children are his life. Surely you want him to stay for YOU.

I do understand the sacrifice for the children though and i think there is nothing wrong with that as such - we all do make sacrifices for them.

Do you really think life will be better without him or is it a case of 'grass is greener'.

He obviously has behaved badly in the past but if he really has made the effort to change you cannot forever bring it up - thats not fair on him either is it?

You are finding it hard to trust - but how about talking to him about that and seeing if there is anything he can do to help you.

I am having the same trust issues with my h at the moment - he is trying to do everything but it just isnt returning - i am wondering if i will always feel this dis-trustful of everyone, and is the answer to just walk away only to find the same issues are still there with a new partner??

I wonder how many of you identify with those conversations that start off ok and before you know it you are in tears and you're left thinking, what did I do wrong. I must have said something wrong but what. Surely it's ok to buy a pair of shorts from H&M. Then he will completely deny having said any of it, and you think you're going completely mad! Until reading the posts on here I quite often used to question that.

I know Happywoman, I do just wonder if it is a case of 'grass is greener' and I do wonder if I had a new partner whether I would be as withdrawn.

Also, I think he is staying for me as well. Its the usual, after an argument he apologises and cries so I think deep down he knows he's a shit but I just think now, don't cry, just don't do it in the first place!

I think I'm going to shop! and see what happens.

You get to a point where you know what subjects will cause the conversation to go wrong and at what point so you either avoid or if like me you tell yourself you WILL NOT be intimidated by the other adult in your home, you press on but your heart is pounding and you are feeling sick and terrified because you know exactly how this is going to go and the awful things that will be said. Which is just as bad really.

After 10 years with a EA H, and taking a long long time to make the break DESPITE his affair and baby with the OW, I have a lovely new DP and things are COMPLETELY different - it is him not you!!!

What will you say when your daughter comes to you and tells you her husband is treating her like yours does now?

It is just as bad and actually very controlling. I see other friends doing quite normal things that in our house would cause problems and I'm jealous! You're right though, I think for our sake it is better to not avoid but just do, so that you aren't intimidated and then they aren't winning. I have just bought the book so I will read it. I have to go now, as kids pestering to go out.

Sorry, its difficult to post answers that are then out of sequence!

You are absolutely right, I would hate my daughter to be bullied and I would definitely say leave. It's interesting isn't it. But very hard to make decision.

Macdoodle, that is lovely and I know it's true.

I'm thinking...

He's an arsehole and couple-counselling will NOT WORK. Counselling doesn't work when one partner is an abuser and your partner IS an abuser. He is controlling and manipulative. COule counselling is all about getting you'both' to take responsibility for the problems, it is lethally unsuitable for abusive relationships because it ends up with the non-abusive partner feeling even more guilty, ashamed and like she's going mad, while the abuser, having manupulated the counsellor and the situation, steps up the abuse and blames the victim.

He is NOT YOUR BOSS OR YOUR OWNER. It is not right, normal or acceptable to feel that you have to manage his moods and obey him in everything. It is not remotely surprising that you don't want to have sex with him - why would anyone want to have sex with a person who doesn't consider them to be a human being?
OK you may be able to find the strength to no longer be intimidated by his behaviour and insist on him treating you with respect, but it is quite possible that his response to this will be to start making threats of violence, or hitting you or smashing your belongings in order to make you obey.

I do agree about the counselling to a certain extent. We have in past counselling had long conversations about how dysfunctional my childhood was and how my parents got it wrong and I was so upset about that as I had a lovely childhood, not perfect but lovely. Anyway, she split us up so maybe she did know, or she thought I was mad also!

I'm going shopping now, I'm feeling very nervous, I'm sweating and scared. How bad is that! He's away until Friday and he has said in the past that when I shop when he's away its sneaky. Sad.

I thnik a lot of it is knowing yourself better.
I do think some of it is how you 'allow' others to treat you - and i am not disagreeing with mcd btw.
You have allowed him to continue and so he just does. A bit like a habit - its not nice but he will change unless he really knows he is hurting you.

Once you know your boundaries and set them out he can then have the choice of whether to cross them or not.

I think you are at the stage of wondering to continue with the relationship regardless of him crossing them.

You really need to sit and talk to him. As i think your dilemia is you want him to cross them to have the excuse.

You are not really being fair to him at the moment (and that is not to say you are at fault but i guess that is why you feel bad about it too).
Good luck anyway - i really do feel for you.

Solid - the op has said that he has tried changing and it has been better. So maybe couple couselling would be useful.

No-one should have to change their behaviour to please their partner - i agree, but surely it is normal to try and avoid certain situations where you know the likely outcome is going to be inflamatory. Its about give and take surely.

Yes it is wrong to feel so bad about the shopping though. I think we have probably all 'overbought' and hidden the fact and said 'this old thing, ive had it ages' - but that is not the same as dreading going shopping in the first place.

If you do want your relationship to work - make a list of what you will accept and tell him about it and if he agrees then you have a start. Things do change over time and it is not unreasonable to have different views over time - but he is not a mind reader either.

My xh agreed to go to counselling because he thought that it would confirm that the problems were my fault, and that the counsellor would "help me to have sex with him again".

Fortunately the counsellor was great, refused to be part of his game, and asked questions that helped to strengthen my own resolve.

I was also scared for many years that xh would use my "mental instability" against me to get custody of the dcs. In reality I was never unstable, but because of his actions, I lost all self-belief and thought others would believe I was unfit as a mother.

Once I stood up to him, and left, and learned to deal with his inevitable anger (he'd just lost control over me, so of course he was angry) there were no threats about taking custody of the dcs.

Interestingly though, according to him, our break-up all became the counsellors fault for encouraging me.... never, never, never his fault.

Like macdoodle, I now have a great and normal life.

but at least he had the counsellor to 'blame' - if he had blamed himself he would have shown you he had changed.
At least by doing the counselling you can know you have given it a real chance and not be left with any doubt that it is your fault, and surely that is a good thing.

If he is EA then I dont think counselling will help and some of your comments are worrying - I so recall that horrid anxious sweaty feeling of how he will react over something minor - and even now we are apart he can still do it to me - funnily enough new DP doesnt