Where to go from here?

[indecisivemumof4]

Hi, I am new to this and am amazed at how some of the posts are so true to my situation so I thought I would ask my question!

I have been married for 14 years to a lovely, kind, generous, funny, intelligent guy who is a great father to our 4 DC's. He is also a nasty, maniputive, cruel, hatefilled, sad man who thinks that I am out to get him and screw him for his money, the children etc etc. He is only like this to me and of course is charming to everyone else. He can go for several months being lovely and I think it's all fine and then he gets his 'look' and it's all over for the next few days. I have sobbed and sobbed over the years, believed it to be me, screamed at him and even hit him (Now who's the mad one, look at you, you're saying I need help).
Anyway, last year I'd had enough, I'd hit 40 and decided that I wasn't going to drive around sobbing my heart out trying to persuade myself not to drive into a tree and end it all. So I told him very calmly and detached that it was over if it continued and he was terrified. Since then he has been a lot better, even though there have been occasions so he isn't 'cured'. Also, I have my suspicions that I've just adapted my life to avoid any flare ups. (Not bought any clothes for the kids in shops etc!)

The big problem now is that we have no sexlife because for me I can't allow myself to become that emotionally involved again only to be hurt. (I promised myself I wouldn't be) He obviously isn't happy with this and to be honest neither am I.

He also won't hear that it's him he thinks its my issue. He knows its because of the destructive relationship we've had but feels as things have been better so should I be!

We've reached the point where it's choice time. It seems so difficult though to split up as really we get on and things have been much worse in the past.

We have discussed counselling but I'm not sure as they will encourage us to try and start one and I so don't want to. I really wish he would have an affair but he won't as he doesn't want to jeopardise him getting custody of the DC's.

Has anyone else been through this and got through the other side? or is it all over realistically.

I feel sorry for him really, he had a terrible childhood where he was deserted by both parents and he is driving me to do the same. Then it will prove to him that all women are betrayers. However, I also can't live like this for ever, or can I? How do you know?

McD - is that not more about you now though - you have been through a lot and will no longer put up with EA?

I know i have changed - i also think my H has made huge efforts to change, and so i think if the op h is prepared to try he may be able to change his behaviour.

Ah I have changed HW I agree - but XH can still do it to me and I still take a lot of crap from him I find it very hard to deal with him
New DP just doesnt behave in the same way at all and it is so obvious - even though I am jittery and very uncompromising he is patient and just wouldnt behave like that !

HW: if there are still incidents, even though they are less frequent (and the OP says there are stil incidents) then the abuser hasn't changed. He still feels entitled to abuse the OP, he is just clever enough to know that he doesn't have to make the effort to do so quite as often as she is 'trained' now.
She is scared of him and modifying her behaviour in order to prevent his abuse of her. That is not a good relationship and not acceptable in any way.

I agree with sgb

The OP has modified her behaviour so much already, there is nowhere else to go.

You are all very helpful and given me loads to think about.

I will talk to him, calmly tell him what my expectations are, eg able to buy for the kids without grief when I get home and that I expect to be treated as an equal.

Then I will see how things are, I am feeling quite empowered as I have a plan and I am going to do these things that others do as normal and if it all goes belly up then at least I know.

I am going to gently push the relationship as I do my 'normal' things and see!

I agree he has to be told then he knows. I also agree that I allow myself to be bullied as I know most people would have told him to sod off years ago.I think that is why he has improved since last year when I said that was it. I stood up to him and he was surprised.

Thanks everso much for your help, I'm so pleased I have found this forum, its so good to talk to people who immediately understand. It's so lonely when things are going badly and you can't really discuss it at great length.

solid - i do agree with you, that his behaviour is not acceptable on any level. But if he is trying to change maybe there is hope.

Are these people not allowed to try and yet still have small slip-ups.

If his behaviour has been like this for a long while he will find it hard to change too.

I am not sure if i believe a leopard can change his spots it depends on whether he wants to and it sounds as if the op h does at least want to change.

It maybe that he has not and he is still in control and feels he has 'trained' the op, but could it also be that he really does and is trying to change?

A word of warning OP!
My XH was similar to yours - moments of abuse interspersed with the man I fell in love with - making it hard to know who was the real person and made me feel slightly mad!
He got much much much worse when I finally stood up to him, and gave him an ultimatum, after years of promising and trying to change, he made no effort at all and stepped up the abuse scarily, including physcial violence and an escalation in the name calling/put downs/and general control - and we were living apart by then!
Do be careful - it is recognised this is the worst time !

HW: OK neither you or I know the OP or her partner and it may be that he is working on changing, however if the incidents are less frequent but more alarming (ie the level of aggression is higher) then he hasn't changed his attitude - that he is the OP's owner and entitled to punish and control her - just his method.

OP, you sound more positive.

Decide what boundaries are reasonable for you (and I don't mean the restricted ones you have allowed yourself to live within for too long). Unless you are on the breadline, you buy what you need for your family, for example. No verbal putdowns, no making your life a misery by "justifying" everything that you do. That is not a life, that is servitude.

Speak to him, a proper wake-up call ie. I will leave, this is your very last chance. One more "slip-up" and I am gone.

From the tone of your posts, it does seem there may be a glimmer of hope here, , but he really has to know you mean it and that your threats are not empty. Every time you threaten and don't follow through, you undermine your position even further.

Good luck, and come back here as many times as you need. there is always someone to listen.

Thanks everyone.

On the subject of boundaries, it is quite difficult to know/ remember what my boundaries are.

I have bought the kids an Easter egg each and I can't decide whether it is too much, too indulgent or just right. I can't decide what is sensible. All I know is that he will think it's too much, or maybe not. Depends what mood takes him. And as I write this I know it sounds completely pathetic!

Anyway, thanks for your posts, will keep reading!

An Easter Egg each is fine. He will criticise you for that?

He is pathetic.

Moods? Unpredictability? Controlling behaviour I would call it.

it can be difficult to know what your own boundaries are.

But one easter egg is not too much and if that is what you feel is ok then he should not undermine that (whatever mood he is in).

I think i used to be more of a pushover and would try and 'avoid' h moods - now however i just let him get on with it and try not to let it effect me.
He generally misses out as i wont let his mood spoil my time. He goes and has his sulk - sees we are not going to be upset by it and then returns feeling sorry but able to laugh about it too.

I am no longer scared of upseting him like i used to be - and i feel that may be where you are at now.

It is hard but once you decide you will not put up with it any longer and let him see that too he will either change for the better or he will try a different method in which case you then have to get out to save yourself.

Dont worry too much about not knowing all the boundaries - they are allowed to change over time too you know.

Hi HappyWoman, can I just ask?
How do you feel about him after his sulks. I find it incredibly hard to carry on being chirpy when he is very quiet and moody, and then when he's over it it's difficult for me to respect him. I just think it's toddler behaviour and it's hard to then carry on, loving him as an equal.

Sometimes though, leaving him to get over it isn't good enough, until he's provoked a reaction from me, he can't let it go. And then afterwards, he is so relaxed it's like a complete outlet for him, his way of letting off steam. He can then be really lovely, though I can't forgive him and simmer resentment. He is then really frustrated I'm dragging it out, and blaming me for ruining the next day also. He wants to just hug and get over it, even if the most nasty things have been said.

All this is very difficult to love.

I think a moody man is different to a EA man - there is a checklist somewhere will see if I can find it!
My XH used to be vile really foul to me - "f*king cnt", "far repulsive b*tch" etc etc.....the next morning he would roll over in bed and expect me to have sex with him, he couldnt understand that after being spoken to and treated like that I wanted him nowhere near me!! And if course it was my fault because "I pushed him away" ....
You need to look at your H and your relationship and decide whether it is EA or if it a relationship problem that can be fixed !

"Sometimes though, leaving him to get over it isn't good enough, until he's provoked a reaction from me, he can't let it go. And then afterwards, he is so relaxed it's like a complete outlet for him, his way of letting off steam. He can then be really lovely, though I can't forgive him and simmer resentment. He is then really frustrated I'm dragging it out, and blaming me for ruining the next day also. He wants to just hug and get over it, even if the most nasty things have been said."

I think this is known as the abuse cycle here.

That could be my x you are talking about there. I stayed with him for so long because I would think "it's ok I can put up with this, will just ignore him", you can't though, they won't let you, they need to off load onto and will keep badgering and badgering until they do. As for expecting you to get over it I was constantly told that he "couldnt understand why someone wants to feel bad and can't just move on". This would be after being told I was a useless mother, to crawl back into the hole I crawled out of, that I was mad and he would take my children, that I was lazy and dirty, spitting in my face, telling me I had "ruined" my son, blaming me for his having ASD and so on and on.

I am scared of how many threads there are going at the moment about this EA men. It makes me despairing and untrusting of all men really. I seem to see it everywhere I look now. No-one I know is happily married, there are elements of this kind of thing in every single relationship I know. It is awful.

I have done a lot of work on myself because of his infedility and actually i really dont give him any thought any more when he has one of his sulks.

With some counselling i learned that i was 'mothering' him too much and now just let him get on with it.

It is hard as you feel that you somehow have to 'make it better'. but if i were you i would just say ' i am not going to put up with you talking to me like that and either ask him to leave or go out and leave him to it.

My h is not 'cured' but he realises that there are now some things i will not put up with (and i have realised i am not afraid of life without him). It is his choice either he shapes up or he leaves - simple. He is desperate to rebuild our marriage and so has done a lot of work himself to change.

But as i say there are the odd moment of him being moody and i just ignore.

I hope you find the strength to tell him your boundaries - it really is a good feeling to know you are in control again.

good luck.

MCD - i think mine is just moody and really it really is not EA so i know i dont have all the experience.

I think in general there are differences between moody, sulky individuals and abusive ones. Certainly everyone is entitled to be grumpy, to express annoyance with a partner and not to have to be a little ray of sunshine all the time: no-one behaves perfectly all the time, everyone has moments of being sulky, cross, rude and unreasonable. And sometimes, one partner is right to criticise the other - if the other partner has been wildly extravagant when the household is broke, or if one partner is being selfish or whatever.
Thing is, when one partner regularly treats the other with contempt, or behaves as though he/she is the most important one in the relationship and therefore the boss/owner of the other partner, then that's getting into abusive territory. Constant belittling and regular hateful remarks 'You're worthless/ugly/stupid/mad, everything's your fault' etc is not something anyone should have to put up with. I think maybe the dividing line is when one person feels that they are having to modify their behaviour all the time in order to manage the other person's moods, and that the other person is only pleasant (or non-aggressive) when s/he is getting his/her own way, and when the not-aggressive partner feels that s/he never knows what is going to trigger the next row or outburst, then that's an unhealthy situation. And if you are afraid of your partner, then the relationship is very unhealthy.

I agree, and also, everyone is allowed to be grumpy and fed up but if that person can never say, 'sorry, I'm in a really bad mood today' but 'I'm in a really bad mood and it's all your fault' and you end up trying not to drive into a tree because you feel so bad even though you're not so sure what you've done. Moody or EA? They may not have sworn at all. All very confusing. And afterwards you can hardly remember the conversation because with only a few comments and facial expressions you are made to feel dust. And then it's all denied anyway so you feel completely insane, which is OK as he has told you you are anyway.

Sorry, that did sound a bit mad, maybe i am!

Oh I so feel for you - you arent mad
My XH drove me to the brink - you wouldnt believe it, I am a professional strong competent person - but I have found myself sat in my car at the edge of a cliff wondering if I just put my foot down then it would just be sweet oblivion - its not you it really isnt !

He sounds like a bit of a gaslighter ie he is telling you that what you see isn't really happening, that what you hear isn't what he said, that your perceptions are wrong and your judgement faulty when he knows perfectly well that this is not so. His aim is to control you and make you passive, submissive and obedient, he doesn;t want you to have any confidence to stand up to him.