oh this is tricky - so tricky I don't even know how to title it............

[FAQinglovely]

quick summary for those that don't know my situation.

DH and I separated last March after just over 8yrs of married life. Been living our own lives since then, but then in January this year decided to have another go of things. But starting over from the beginning. So we're still very much at the "dating" stage, living seperate lives, staying out of each others business unless we're on a "date" or when he's come to get the DSs for a weekend with him.

He was fire end of January, and having already been in deep financial shit is now even more so because of that.

He's currently effectively "squatting" in the marital home which is all in his name (I lived there until end of January when I moved out and am now claiming HB elsewhere). He has virtually no furniture in there, and when he has the DS's to sleep over the single sofa bed (tiny little square foam thing which he uses as an "arm chair") goes up stairs for DS1 to sleep on and he sits on the floor.

The last few weeks as the end of the month approached (and came and has now gone) we've not really seen each other except on DS "exchange" time.

He's really retreated and I was wondering whether it was because he was having second thoughts about "us". I did manage to get out of him tonight (on the phone) that it's not "us" - he's just really stressed and not very talkative and (his words) "not really someone you want to have to talk to at the moment".

I told him that I don't mind if he just wants to come over and sit on the sofa and watch TV (he has no TV now, and his computer recently broke so he's not online either) and only speak to say "yes please" when I offer him another bottle of Magners.

He then made a thing, not in a stroppy way, about me not "minding" - so I rephrased that I don't care if he's not wanting to talk if he just wants company that's fine.

tbh I think he's depressed and I'm actually really worried about him. He took all the debts (apart from my Credit Card) with him when we split up (they were all in his name anyhow - but still - we agreed together to take out business loans etc a few years ago) and even before he lost his job 20k a year wasn't enough to pay them all, especially with mortgage arrears as well. So £3k a year from JSA to pay for everything except for his council tax is going to cripple him even more and I think it's really affecting him.

He's been throwing himself into his gym (he joined just before he got fired - unfair dismissal by the way - and has kept it up as it's the only "release" he gets and when it needs renewing he'll get the cheaper rates because he's on benefits and it's the council run one), and this week I know he went kick boxing twice - but it totally exhausted him.

What on earth can I do to help him??? Despite us being married for all these years we are in effect in a new relationship. So we've only been together for 3 months so I don't feel I can try to chivvy him along to try and go to the GP's or anything, or even talk about it if he's reluctant to share it with me because of it being "early" in it all. Or at least I don't feel I can do it in the same way that I would have been able to if we were living together (or even separate) as a fully fledged "couple").

maybe he really does want you to be concerned but is too afraid to admit it?

hi FAQ,...ok, i'd stop looking at him as someone you've only know 3 months, because you've known him alot longer than that. if you think he's suffering from depression (and he possilbe is) you should speak to him about your concerns, i deffo would.

It does sound as if he's depressed. At least if he's doing stuff like going to the gym then it maybe isn't too bad & he just needs you to be there, to listen & be supportive.

I went through a tricky time a few weeks ago, unusual shitty stuff all came at once, and I didn't really want to have to explain it to anyone, I learned to come to terms with the bits I couldn't change, and some of the bits got better. I hope this is the case with your DH, just a short-term shitty phase that he is dealing with in his own way. All you can do for now is hold his hand. Good luck.

I would speak to him about your concerns. He is the father of your son so presume spending time with him when you are not there. Just for that fact alone I would broach the subject with him.

I don't think it is going to be very short term though He was facing certain repossession, but now the mortgage providers have held of with that until the 13 weeks are up so that he can get the help with the interest. Problem is I think (and I think he knows this as well) is that even when that's sorted he's then going to have all the other creditors after him, and quite probably facing bankruptcy.

I know I've known him longer than 3 months, but we both changed in that period when we were seperated and not even seeing each other apart from when he collected and dropped off the children.

I don't know how to explain to him that I want to support him through this without sound like I'm nagging (I used to nag a lot and it was a contributing factor to our split)

He sounds so low on the phone. He said "well I'm used to my own company as I've been on my own since we split up" - when I mentioned about the loneliness and lack of company. But the thing is he wasn't on his own, he only moved into his own place in December last year, prior to that he was in house share and there wer generally people around in the evenings and he's sit and have a beer and a laugh with them at home, or go off to the pub with them (I know as he told me they did this).

Even when he lived on his own he was still working - so he saw people then as well. He's now into a phase where he sees virtually no-one at all and I know from experience how utterly different that is.

Think he's also struggling with his new "non-working" status, even when we were in the finacial poo 3yrs ago he refused to claim benefits we (somehow) scraped by - but we had CTC and CB to help us. I think it's come as a massive shock to him to find himself having to go and sign-on every 2 weeks and all of the "stereotyping" that goes with it.

I don't want to seem pushy but I hate seeing him this way.

colie - I'm not too worried about him when he has the DS's overnight - it really lifts his spirits, he adores those boys and spoils them rotten (although I've been telling him not to since he lost his job - although to be fair to him he spoils them with packs of value biscuits and sweets so he's not spending a fortune on them,and he eats cheaply too in between whiles).

Infact the day that he received the news that he had been fired he had DS3 staying with him (was just before I moved here and he offered to have DS3 for a couple of days before the weekend of the move so I could finish packing in the day time - DS1 and 2 then went to his fr the rest of the weekend). He told me then that he was so glad he had DS3 there at the time as it helped take his mind off it and focus on something positive. (and it must be said DS3 doesn't give you much chance to be reflective when he's awake).

Whilst I can see why you want to view things as "new" between you I think that your dh's current prolems will scupper the relationship unless you help him to address them using your knowledge of him from the 8 years of marriage that you have shared together.

He is at high risk of being depressed/developing depression and if you can recognise this in him then you should try to encourage him to seek help/recognise this for himself and develop strategies that will improve things. Could he have more contact with your ds's? Pick them up from school, take them to activities etc?

I have managed to persuade him (well actually I just asked him and he said yes) to have them from Thursday next weekend instead of from Friday (mostly for my benefit I shall admit as I was desperate for a baby sitter for Thursday evening for a Maundy Thursday services and Friday afternoon awkward for me because of Good Friday services).

They don't currently do any activities - (apart from one each after school clubs that only last 40 minutes) but he did mention a while ago about him perhaps looking after DS3 while I took the other 2 swimming, or vice versa so I could perhaps see if he could do that and maybe see if I can think of some others?

Faq-it is good that his children give him something to focus on, and combined with the exercise he is obviously on the right track in recovering from depression (if he had it), under circumstances would be probable he did/does have it.

I just think when it comes to someone's health then it must be very hard to act as if you have only just met them. A major life event has occurred in his life during this "getting to know you period" so I would jsut act as if I have known him for the lenghth of time you's really have.

Hope it all works out for you's.

Are you completely sure it was/is 'depression', cos alot of people self diagnose depression when it's not! We all feel down from time to time,but depression?? In this current climate then maybe we're all suffering from this too?

Personally think you need to look deeper, or just wait and see what happens. 'depression' is a term bandied round all too easily.

Tiffany - - I know very well what it's like and wouldn't band it around if I wasn't fairly certain.

. And just after we started seeing each other again he was looking for a reason to get signed off sick and "jokingly" asked me to look up the signs of stress (to give him time to properly prepare for his appeal for the unfair dismissal)- he went very quiet when I showed him the list on the NHS website and admitted that he could genuinely say yes to a very large number of things on the list, infact he said it was more a case of which of those the symptoms he hadn't be suffering from.

Yes but stress and depression are different! Very different when it comes to self diagnosing. 2 separate things.....which one you saying he's got?

And when presented with a list of symptoms for something like 'stress', well, come on, we'd ALL be ticking most of those boxes wouldn't we!?

• anger,
• depression,
• anxiety,
• changes in behaviour,
• food cravings,
• lack of appetite,
• frequent crying,
• difficulty sleeping (mental),
• feeling tired, and
• difficulty concentrating.

Physical symptoms

• chest pains,
• constipation or diarrhoea,
• cramps or muscle spasms,
• dizziness,
• fainting spells,
• nail biting,
• nervous twitches,
• pins and needles,
• feeling restless,
• a tendency to sweat,
• sexual difficulties such as erectile dysfunction or a loss of sexual desire,
• breathlessness,
• muscular aches, and
• difficulty sleeping (physical).

I sometimes feel stressed - but I certainly couldn't tick "yes" to 95% of the above symptoms.

You'll notice that depression is one of the mental syptoms of stress and if both are in conjunction with each other the depression needs to be treated as well as trying to find ways to alleviate the stress.

I know what depression is and I'm worried I can see him acting in a similar way that I was this time last year.

I never mentioned 95%

I think it's easy to getthings out of perspective,say 'yes,that's me' to a list of 'symptoms' on a website, rather to a health professional who could dig deeper. You don't live with him, don't see him that much. Easy to see what you want to see

what does he want to happen with your relationship? it sounds as though you are both in limbo and the moment and that the current state of affairs is a little unreal.... does he want you to get back together or are you both uncertain? i would think his feelings about this as well as the loss of his job are pretty key.

i dont think it's as simple as deciding that you are dating.... you're not, you're married with 3dcs. you have a huge history... how is it going to be decided what happens next? do you talk about the relationship / thefuture? do you think you ned some outside help to reach these decisions....

he's hardly in a position to court and woo you is he if he's unemployed and depressed. all sounds a bit of a vicious circle to me.

well he did go to the GP and the GP agreed that the symptoms he said he had, which had all be on going for some time, were stress and signed him off not for longer than DH asked for.

I can see him doing what I did, I can see him putting on the "I'm ok face" (getting out and going to the gym) and then once back at home being totally not ok.

i did that - I swanned off to nursery to pick DS2 up, I picked DS1 up from school, I went to toddler group - I "looked" fine, meanwhile I was near the bottom and drinking a lot on a daily basis, I stopped the drinking and 2 weeks later was in hospital.

And no I don't live with him, don't see him that much, but we speak (almost) daily and I can hear what he's telling me, I can hear how he talks. I've known him 10yrs now (9yrs of those living with him as we lived together before we got married) I know that isn't the way he is when he's "down".

I don't want to see what I'm seeing, I'd much rather I wasn't seeing it but I can't pretend that the way he is now is nothing like hes ever been in the 10yrs since I met him.

controlfreak

we both (probably)want to get back together, we have discussed it (at very great length) both before he lost his job and since.

And of course it's not as simple as what you said. However we spent nearly a year totally and utterly apart and both changed, we agreed that we need do to do the whole dating thing again to get to know each other. We have both agreed that at some point in the future while still at the living apart stage we may decide that actually we (and the DS's) are going to be better off if we simply remain as very good friends.

Yes there is history, we've talked about that history and "resolved" most of the major issues too.

I don't expect him to court and woo me - I knew even before he lost his job there wouldn't be that much happening as he was already struggling financially - apart from dinner out one night all our "dates" have been dinner at mine, or dinner at his when he has the DS's.

This thread isn't about "us" per se - it's about him and the worries I have for him which at the moment I think he's not wanting to share partly because of the "stage" our new relationship is at.

how about being completely honest and upfront with him then?

tell hoim you are concerned about him and why. ask him how you can help / support him?

FAQ my lovely - so sad to hear your DH is having such a hard time of it. It does sound like he is depressed, which wouldn't be at all surprising given what he is going through at the moment - loss of job in itself is a frequent reason for becoming depressed.

It could well be that he doesn't want to jeopardise your new-found relationship by him being in a state - he would rather still be in that honeymoon phase, not suddenly a bit of a wreck that needs support - poor man!

I think you have the situation well sussed but not sure how you can help him - you could try offering him the alternative scenario, i.e. - "If it were me in this situation, and I was depressed and needed support, wouldn't you want to help me?"
Working on the principle that he would say "Of course I would want to help you", then you can say "well why won't you let me help you then?"

It might be a male pride thing as well - more difficult to deal with of course. In which case you might have to resort to deviousness - i.e. use the DSs as an excuse - they would love to see more of him, he would be doing you a massive favour if he came around more to take a bit more care of them so you could get on with your college work etc., etc. - how does that sound? Try to make it that he is helping you not the other way around - out-of-work men with pride frequently feel completely useless, so bringing some usefulness into his life will help him.

I can see the dilemma there though.....spending extra time together, especially any overnights!! FAQ will be stuck with being able to do that!! Bearing in mind other threads where your circumstances have been discussed!
Even if he found a job today, do you think it would lift his depression? I'm thinking not.

FAQ,

It sounds as if a lot of things have contributed to your dh's current state of mind, the loss of his current job being just one of them.

It may also be that he is feeling the strain of the split between you two, because although you are currently re-evaluating your relationship, he must surely realize deep down that, had you not split, you would be going through all this together, instead of him having to treat you as if you've only just met, so a kind of realization of what he's lost, and potentially still stands to lose iyswim. And the children help, because they are confirmation of what he still has.

Firstly, I would be inclined to let him see the children more often. As he is out of work I would encourage him to see this from a positive perspective by telling him that this is a fantastic time to spend good quality time (I hate that phrase so whatever term works for you ) with his children which he wouldn't otherwise have had the opportunity to do if he were working. Don't make it sound as if you need his help, because some people can take this the wrong way and think that you only want them to do you favours because you feel sorry for them, so I would make it seem more like you think this would benefit both him and the children, iyswim?

Secondly, depending on how you feel obviously, I would encourage the relationship from your end. He may currently feel totally inadequate, and this in itself might be why things have not been progressing. So make the effort from your end. Perhaps bringg over a bottle of wine or a takeaway, or suggest you all go to McDonalds. Make it clear that your feelings haven't changed even though he's out of work and is feeling the way he is. Doing that may cause him to open up more, and that in turn may get your own relationship back on track, and put you back in a place where you are able to offer him the support he needs.

If you want to support him, then support him. good luck.

and remember, it's your future too.

oh well just a quick update to this - I didn't speak to him about it in the end. It seemed he was changing his mind and wanted to stay just friends, and indeed we had a conversation on Monday agreeing to that.

However, I spent all of yesterday evening (and into early hour of this morning) in A&E with him after he called me saying he needed help. I asked him if he'd taken something and he wasn't really making sense. So I called an ambulance and then my BF came over and sat with my boys while I got a taxi down to his.

Thankfully it turns out he hadn't taken anything, but he did have really bad stomach pains which he said he'd had for a few days. He didn't remember what was said in our conversation on Monday - and couldn't even remember how the DS's got back from his to mine on Sunday evening.

He broke down in tears while we were at the hospital and after I'd made it clear I wasn't going anywhere finally started to talk to me. He admitted he wasn't coping and thought yes it was probably depression - but didn't tell them there (fair enough).

They sent him home and advised him to make a GP appointment as he had high blood pressure, and he's just gone down this now to talk to the Dr about depression.

I've never seen him cry in the 11yrs I've known him, but he has twice in the space of 12hrs.

He's not a well man mentally - but together we're going to get him through this.

Oh FAQ, what a hard situation for you all

I really hope his GP is helpfull, are they a good practice usually?
What did the hospital put the stomach pains down to?

He is very lucky to have you in his life FAQ.

Encourage him to make an appt today, while he's able to admit there's a problem and I hope he's able to get proper help for this. Last night must have been very frightening for you both.