For fucks sake, I am so unlucky in love it would be funny if it wasn't so heartbreaking

[TheMoistWorldOfSeptimusQuench]

Please excuse me, I am slightly pissed.

But really fecking pissed off too.

Bloody men.

oh, here, have a glass of wine with me Moist.. are you ok?

Good to see you.

sorry you are pissed off.

wha's occerrin' ?

Hi QS, nice to see you too

[gulps yousaidit's glass gratefully and gulps it down in one]

come on spill
what's the prob.?
sorry to hear you're pissed off
might have guessed a man was involved

No I'm not OK.

As if going through a year long relationship with William Fucking Leith wasn't punishment enough.

An ex, a really lovely ex, who I had missed terribly and have always loved, recently came back into my life. It was great. And just what the doctor ordered.

He phoned tonight to tell me that he has met someone who he's fallen head over heels in love with. She "makes me fell like a child again" apparently. I'm happy for him, because I love him and I want life to be good for him, but still...

FFS, I'm supposedly an attractive, intelligent woman, so what's wrong with me? Why am I always let down and dissappointed?

[self indulgent poor me emoticon]

Sorry

er, here, have my bottle of wine.

because men are fuckwits, and afer a couple of months when he doesn't feel like a cild, he feels bored, he's saying she's like a child instead and misses you terribly, then he'll be back, and you'll have vented your spleen enough o thumb your nose at him? r jump his bones?

Thanks yousaidit [guzzle]

I will always jump his bones, we were made for each other. I don't know whether he'll be back or not, it sounds serious for him so maybe not.

I just need to get my head around the fact that I'll probably been on my own forever now. But I don't understand why it has to be like this.

you won't be on your own for ever.

its just when you stop being on your own, you don't know whether irt will be with Him, or Someone Even Better.

men are at best a bit silly, a bit like dogs getting giddy n the fresh air. when he's got bored of being 'like a child' (eh, i think that stopped about a month after i started seeing dh, now we feel like pensioners1) he'll be rueing ( sp? ) his choice...

You will meet someone who isn't a twat and then you'll be okay. You must need new batteries for your twat detector.

Am also resigned to solitude and am similarly bemused as to how True Love can evade me - that which is reciprocated anyhow

Personally, ignoring my relationship baggage - clearly the fault of the twonky men I've been involved with, not me - I think I'm quite a catch!

They truly are arses, even the nice men - they simply aren't evolved enough.

The ones that manage long term relationships simply have saint like DWs or are good at keeping up appearances I reckon. Mostly, men do not function well beyond ejaculation and accumulation [of money/posessions/offspring]. The greatest achievement of man since evolution began is in some rare cases to have been able to disguise this very fact. Even then it is debatable whether a female PA (read wife) is behind it.

"You must need new batteries for your twat detector."

Fabulous cornsilk. I'm saving that one to use on my sister

Was it actually william leith?

Think so muffle - Septimus has confessed to that one in a previous thread.

Oh my love, you do indeed need cornsilk's batteries! Get yourself out into the world and show them your fabulousness- the darkest hour is just before dawn and all that...I met my wonderful DP literally the night after I told my best friend that I'd made my bed etc and life was a heap of old shit and I was giving up. She stood me up and I went to the rather dull party on my own and five hours later had been rogered to within an inch of my life several times Three years later, and I am delighted that she decided to stay in!

You sound like me. It's a good thing that you recognise your own worth. It took me a long while to realise how fabulous I was and that it wasn't me- it was the men I chose. The only thing wrong with girls like us is that we do need new batteries for own twat radars! Your ex sounds a bit immature tbh. If he was right for you he would not be off on a whim. It's hard I know but you need someone a bit more grounded. If he was an ex he might think he can waltz back into your life whenever he feels like it- don't let him. Close the door and move on. I've just decided that men aren't really evolved enough and should be treated a bit like pets!

Quench,

What did you learn about relationships from your parents?. We learn about relationships first and foremost from them, what did they teach you?.

Ex's are ex's often for good reason; this one will not ever make you truly happy. If he "feels like a child" around this new woman it sounds like he wants someone to mother him all over again.

You need to relearn the patterns that led you to making such poor choices menwise. Not all men are twats and or heartless, not at all. If you think that all men are shites of the first order you will tend to attract such men!. Some men (generally speaking here) do have inbuilt radar for choosing needy and emotionally vulnerable women to sponge from and use to their own ends.

Do you go for the same type of emotionally unavailable or commitment phobic man each time?. Do you see these men as someone to rescue and or save (your love can save them!) because if so those approaches are doomed to failure.

Wow, thanks for all the replies. I feel like I've been given a manly MN slap on the back, which is nice

Yes, twat detector has definitely been malfunctioning for some time now, but I think Attila is bang on the money.

My dad worked abroad a lot when I was young. So he'd clear off for 2 or 3 weeks, return home to great rejoicing, bestowing presents on us all and making my mum smile, but then he'd just as quickly be off again and who knew for how long.

Once I was in my teens, he was spending more time at home, but by the time I was about 14, I'd realised that I actually didn't like my Dad very much at all. We clashed constantly.

So, although it seems a bit too neat, and a little bit too pop psychology, I think I can see why I go for these unattainable, commitment phobic guys - I'm just playing out the "feast or famine" nature of my relationship with my dad. But realising it is one thing - how on earth do you break the patttern?

I don't think all men are wankers by the way, I know some lovely ones. But I don't seem to be attracted to them

However, I have known some absolute stinkers in my time, the aforementioned W. Leith being the apotheosis of self obsessed, toxic stinky-wankerishness

You're going to hate this advice... But have you read any books on dating? "Why Men Love Bitches" is a sassy, feisty, funny wake-up call of a book about relationships. or then there is the seminal "The Rules"...

I know, I know! But it was only by reading The Rules that I realised:

a) I was giving far too much in relationships. I was giving first, before the man did, thinking that my generosity would kick-start his. Uh-oh.

b) That I was indulging in "fantasy relationships". I have an ex who I secretly consider to be my soul-mate and perfect mate. I waited years for him, then read TR and realised that, as he wasn't actually asking me out on proper dates (with advance notice), buying me presents, helping me with stuff, getting jealous of other men who liked me, etc, etc, it was all bollocks. He didn't really want to pursue a real relationship with me at all. When I gave up on him, I met DH.

c) That I was trying to impress men with my intelligence. Not to say that I became a bimbo, but I stopped competing with men and thinking that if I indulged in lengthy "heated debates" with them about topics, they'd respect and like me more. I realised I didn't want to be respected (like a colleague), I wanted to be adored and found charming.

d) That you don't have to do anything to find Mr Right except go out, look nice, make your own life fabulous and have lots of interests.

e) That the right man for me would do all the chasing. That he'd remember my birthday, not run a mile on Valentine's Day, do what he said he was going to do, and never give me a minute's doubt. And that men who weren't like this were not projects for me to fix, but Just Not That Into Me and therefore not worth wasting time on.

Sounfds all v trite, doesn't it?! But it was a revelation. My Dad was unavailable when I was growing up, like yours, and it definitely drew me towards elusive males. But I broke the pattern and learned to be a lot sassier and put myself first. I'm by NO means perfect and my marriage has had a good few ups and downs, but it's stopped me being needy. I was very needy before, even when I thought I was being "strong".

I'm forever hanging round these threads lecturing, so I don't want to do that here! I'm not trying to push the book on you, it's just what helped me.

Hi quench,

re your comment:-

"So, although it seems a bit too neat, and a little bit too pop psychology, I think I can see why I go for these unattainable, commitment phobic guys - I'm just playing out the "feast or famine" nature of my relationship with my dad. But realising it is one thing - how on earth do you break the patttern?"

Well it is not really pop pyschology.
We learn about relationships first and foremost from our parents so was wondering what you were taught by them. We as kids learn an awful lot.

You certainly don't need any more twattish selfish commitment phobic men in your life; these men leave you reeling and delay your emotional recovery.

Your Dad was an unobtainable and distant figure but you still wanted and sought his approval. Then your teenage years kicked in and the clashes started. You are indeed carrying on your Dad's lack of relationship with your his daughter. You will go on repeating the same patterns with the same types of unavailable and commitment phobic men if you do not address the whys and wherefores now. You are not here to save and or rescue such men from themselves!. Such patterns need to be unlearnt.

I would suggest counselling for your own self to discuss all this in a both safe and controlled environment. Relate would be able to help; alternatively BACP will probably have a list of counsellors in your area.

It will be hard going emotionally but I think that you see these issues through you will feel a lot happier and more fulfilled longer term.

Good luck to you

Attila

Do you find that men treat you wonderfully for the first month or so of dating, then the balance seems to shift and they start behaving like twonks?

I love Attila's grown-up advice right next to my (not so grown-up) advice! That's what is so great about MN.

Thanks for the advice Attila (wasn't suggesting you were using pop psychology, was just commenting on the simplicity of my own analysis).

I have had loads and loads of counselling over the last 20 years, including CBT. But none of it has made any difference whatsoever. I don't know why.

Beautiful: Thank you too for your advice. I was given a copy of the Rules once, by a friend. I did, to my credit, manage to read about half of it, but the temptation to insert it into my friend's rectum became too great, and I had to put it in the dustbin before I did something I would have regretted.

But I'm glad it worked for you!