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Original poster

*Is long term cohabitation just commitment phobia?*

112 replies

Wonderpet · 16/03/2009 11:38

How many women kid themselves that they are ok with 'living together' when secretly, they view marriage a sign of commitment, but they don't feel they can ask their man to marry them? Or am I the only one that thinks this way?

OP posts:
commeuneimage · 25/10/2009 23:49

If you have a valuable house or other assets it is crazy not to be married because of inheritance tax. That is the main legal advantage.

Emotionally I don't believe there is a greater commitment than to marry. I once read an article where the author said if the couple were cohabiting and not marrying what they were really saying was that someone better might come along.

On the other hand, I am getting divorced...

radtink · 26/10/2009 01:45

I was with someone and lived with him for 5 years, he talked marriage now and then but I finally realized it was just to shut me up. He had committment issues. I broke up with him, got fed up because I wanted to get married. I met someone wonderful, set down the rules at three months, I said "if this works out, I'm not waiting years and years for a proposal, if we get along well enough in one year then we should be able to "discuss" the possibility of progression of the relationship, I'm not playing games and I do not want to be with someone who has issues that inhibit them from committing, been there done that! It will be one year that we have been together and yesterday he asked me to go ring shopping with him!! You are only going to get what you want when you ask for it and if you want to get married and he doesn't,move on, life is too short to settle!

anonymous85 · 26/10/2009 04:14

I personally wanted the commitment of marriage and seriously it is the best day of your life and I don't think it as just getting a piece of paper. I wish that day lasted forever

But... I don't judge other people decisions and views, people have their own personal reasons and for them it might not be important, me it is - who cares, their business not mine. Some living together and having a child is enough commitment in itself.

seeker · 26/10/2009 05:35

"ring shopping"

cory · 26/10/2009 07:55

I don't think the divorce statistics of married and cohabiting couples show a thing

the category of cohabiting people will be made up of two subgroups: those committed to a longterm relationship (let's call them 1a) and those not so committed (let's call them 1 b)

the group married people will of necessity be made up primarily of the former

you are quite simply not comparing like with like

to take the statistics of group 1 as a whole and pretend that the combination of divorces in subgroups 1a and 1b enable you to make any kind of prediction about a couple in group 1b (or even a couple of whom you do not know if they belong to 1 a or 1 b) doesn't make a lot of sense

Earthstar · 26/10/2009 08:14

Not marrying can be simply rejecting the idea thAt the state needs to define your relationship.

Some unmarried women would love to marry their long term partners, some would not. If the woman has more assets than the man it is against her interests financially to marry. From being an unusual situation this is becoming more common.

Some of dp's rellys are convinced I would like to marry him and they are very wrong. I find it rude and a bit dim / pathetic when they make comments about our unmarried status to me.

DorotheaPlentighoul · 26/10/2009 08:27

Good point, cory.

Janos · 26/10/2009 08:30

Hmmm.

I think it's a myth that all women want to get married and men are the ones 'holding back'.

Speaking purely for myself, I've never been married and can't imagine wanting to.

Bucharest · 26/10/2009 08:36

I shan't get married ever.
Don't want to.
Shan't ever have another man either.
Don't want one.
Dp would prefer to be married.
He'll get over it.

It's not as if there's an arrow over our heads when we walk down the street.

Very presumptious and judgey comments on this thread from people that I wouldn't have expected it from tbh.

Cory, as usual, talks sense about the statisitics.

Meglet · 26/10/2009 08:37

As much as I would have wanted to in the early days I could have never married XP as he had loads of debt that would have put my house at risk had we married. Financially I would have been screwed, and possibly homeless, if we married. So we were in a shitty situation where we couldn't have got married for about 10 years in case his bank wanted the money back. I suspect our situation isn't that unusual, especially in this financial climate.

PuppyMonkey · 26/10/2009 08:40

Poor, poor souls. PMSL Maranatha.

SolidGhoulBrass · 26/10/2009 09:53

I am always boggled by the people who are non-specifically desperate to get married. I think these are the ones who end up in trouble, because they either accept the first maniac who asks them (because said maniac wants someone to put in a box and terrorize/control) or they coax or coerce a pleasant but not-too-fussed individual into marrying them and said individual then fucks off over the horizon a short time later.

MadameDuBain · 26/10/2009 10:10

If DP surprised me and proposed, I'd say yes. But that's because it would mean at least one of us felt strongly enough to do it, which we currently don't really. We have the long relationship, DC and commitment, we have sorted out the will, we co-own property, and I feel that what we have is a "marriage" in all but legal terms. People often assume we are and ask me about my "husband" and I don't bother to correct them unless it's relevant.

I think we would vaguely like to be officially married but there are some sticking points. We grew up as the products of unhappy marriages and went through our parents' nasty divorces. I hate the idea of a no-fuss lunchtime registry office do because that's what my parents did, and their lack of public declaration about it seems to reflect how unsuited they were (no offence to anyone who has done that, I just can't get past it myself). But then if we had the money for a big do, we'd rather spend it on nice sofas or something . And though we kind of like the idea of a do, we both hate being the centre of attention. So we have discussed it, but not got round to it - but I think our reasons are various and prosaic, not lack of commitment.

woozlet · 26/10/2009 11:14

MadameDuBain - what about a wedding abroad?

MadameDuBain · 26/10/2009 11:25

hmm.... nice idea I suppose, but if we did it we'd want all our mates there. It would seem unfair to ask everyone to travel, and I know I lot wouldn't be able to afford it. And we live in a beautiful city anyway. But thanks!

marantha · 27/10/2009 07:49

I put the "smug" into marriage? I am sorry but what exactly is smug about wanting to secure financial and legal security for yourself and your offspring (marriage is far more likely to achieve this than cohabiting alone- at least you can provide documented proof that the other half of the couple committed to you at some point with the former).
I'll accept that marrying for this reason is perhaps cold, (mercenary, even). I accept that it may be be- as with golddiggers- amoral but it is not smug!
What IS smug are those with "partners" who believe that their relationship is so important that the state and everyone else should fall at their feet and realise this and treat them as IF they were in a stable relationship even though they don't make it plain by marrying.
Anyway, in a lot of cases, you get the same old s*it with marriage as you do in cohabitation-
Er so you've lived with your "partner" for 10 years, you've got three children with him. He s**gs his secretary twice a week. You wash his socks. You have a mortgage together. So tell me, Ms Smith, what exactly is it about marriage that repels you so much...

Blackduck · 27/10/2009 08:02

marantha I think the 'smug' remark was in response to this
"I feel slightly sorry for women who have "partners" not "spouses". I mean how awful it must be to take out a mortgage with a man, have his children but not be able to even get him to spend a few quid in a register office getting him to sign a simple document saying that you wish to be together for life! Poor, poor souls."

With its assumption that all us poor unmarrieds are waiting for our man to pop the question. It is patronising and smug in the extreme. If I wanted to marry dp I could ASK HIM - hey theres a novel idea. This notion that you have to wait to be asked is just so antiquated. So we are incapable of getting our men to propose and marry us

So please DON'T feel sorry for me, I don't need your pity..

DorotheaPlentighoul · 27/10/2009 08:15

Marantha, who exactly has given you the impression that those of us with partners believe the state should fall at our feet, etc, as you outlined above? And I would question the notion that marrying "makes it plain" that you're in a stable relationship.

Agree with others that it did sound very smug to say that you were sorry for women in unmarried relationships, and to call us "poor souls"

However, each to their own. Personally I feel quite sorry for people with tiny, narrow minds and no ability to recognize that what's right for them may not be right for others

Bucharest · 27/10/2009 08:34

Marantha- I earn about four times as much as my "partner" so any registry office do would invariably be paid for by me.

Should I want such a tawdry affair, that is.

And how unspeakably absurd (and saying a lot about how you feel about relationships- but not much about the rest of us) that you presume all non-married but cohabiting men are shagging their secretaries.

Have you had a bad experience with your husband or something?

FWIW I have a secretary, my "partner" doesn't. (but I get quite enough sex from him not to need to bonk the girl who does my filing thankyou.)

marantha · 27/10/2009 08:47

DorotheaPlentighoul, the calls for cohabitation to be afforded legal rights gives me the impression that a lot of cohabitees want their relationship recognised by the state in some way-which of course means that those of us who wish to cohabit no-strings-attached may well have legal ties forced upon us against our will.
If cohabitees want to remain unmarried that is absolutely fine, but why should I- or anyone else- be denied the human right to live with another adult on MY own terms because some people claim not to believe in marriage but find that they really DO believe in it when the s*it hits the fan and they demand a sort of "divorce" from their partners with maintenance and all the rest associated with marriage?
I agree that marrying itself is not necessarily an indicator of a stable relationship but what a marriage certificate DOES do is provide proof that a couple PROMISED to support each other through thick-and-thin, thus a judge has a starting point that at least a promise was made. With cohabitation, it is a battle to decide whether or not such a promise was made in the first place.

marantha · 27/10/2009 08:50

Bucharest, my assumption is that ALL men-married or not- are capable of shagging their secretaries. My point is that all men are fundamentally the same so you may as well marry them than live with them because at least with marriage you're more likely to gain financially at the end of it (usually).

marantha · 27/10/2009 08:56

Of course, if a woman is significantly richer than her partner, it would not be in her interests to marry. Yes, I can understand that. Fair enough.

Blackduck · 27/10/2009 09:07

"my assumption is that ALL men-married or not- are capable of shagging their secretaries. My point is that all men are fundamentally the same so you may as well marry them than live with them because at least with marriage you're more likely to gain financially at the end of it (usually)."

god, on your clealy high opinion of men I am surprised you are advocating being with them at all

well I'm okay - dp doesn't have a secretary

Bucharest · 27/10/2009 09:24

Of course all men are capable of shagging their secretaries.

Whether they desire to do so, is another matter.

Methinks there is a hooooooooge subtext here.

I do not wish to marry my partner, not because I have more money than he does, but because to do so would legitimise his parents' relationship with my daughter (see numerous MIL threads for further information if necessary) That's all. And also, because at the grand old age of 44 I'd feel a bit of a numpty in the meringue frock thing.

I am also secure in the knowledge that my relationship with my partner is rock solid, neither of us have desire, time, or energy to shag anyone else, and we do not need a piece of paper or 36 toasters to prove that.

I feel sorry for women who are obviously so insecure as women and partners that they feel the need to belittle the choices of others.......

Janos · 27/10/2009 09:27

"If cohabitees want to remain unmarried that is absolutely fine, but why should I- or anyone else- be denied the human right to live with another adult on MY own terms because some people claim not to believe in marriage but find that they really DO believe in it when the s*it hits the fan and they demand a sort of "divorce" from their partners with maintenance and all the rest associated with marriage?
"

What does this actually mean? I've read it through several times and am no nearer to making any sense of it.