help me understand/ deal with my DH's personality type better he is CONFLICT AVERSE and its causing huge problems

[schmu]

dh is the ultimate people pleaser. he thinks of himself as easy going and laid back, but really he just wants to avoid arguments/ conflict by not being honest.

he is prone to lying and telling half truths to get himself off the hook. we have trust issues as a result.

he doesnt tell me how he really feels if he has a gripe, but instead allows resentment to build up, then he'll suddenly 'blow' and months of seemingly irrational anger and hurt will flood out.

we are going to relate but he refuses to do the talking excercise set as 'homework'.

if i feel upset about something and tell him, he constantly tells me that i read too much into sitauations, and shouldnt overreact etc etc.

i love him, but we are poles apart. i am a deep thinker and a talker and her is as far removed from taht as you can get.

thre relate counsellor said he was passive aggressive, but i dont think i agree with that.

any advice for improving communication between us? we just seem to clash so much at the moment and have scarily different views on fundamental issues eg whether its ok to tell half truths.( then when i find out he's lied by omission and get upset, he says 'no wonder i didnt tell you when you react like this!') i'm at my wits' end with him.

i am very far from perfect, but i just wish we could communicate more.

bump

Why do you not think he is passive aggressive?. The Relate counsellor stated as much.

Some info on PA type behaviours:-

Passive Aggressive behavior is a form of covert abuse. When someone hits you or yells at you, you know that you've been abused. It is obvious and easily identified. Covert abuse is subtle and veiled or disguised by actions that appear to be normal, at times loving and caring. The passive aggressive person is a master at covert abuse.

Passive aggressive behaviour stems from an inability to express anger in a healthy way. A person's feelings may be so repressed that they don't even realize they are angry or feeling resentment. A passive aggressive can drive people around him/her crazy and seem sincerely dismayed when confronted with their behaviour. Due to their own lack of insight into their feelings the passive aggressive often feels that others misunderstand them or, are holding them to unreasonable standards if they are confronted about their behaviour.

Common Passive Aggressive Behaviours:

Ambiguity: I think of the proverb, "Actions speak louder than words" when it comes to the passive aggressive and how ambiguous they can be. They rarely mean what they say or say what they mean. The best judge of how a passive aggressive feels about an issue is how they act. Normally they don't act until after they've caused some kind of stress by their ambiguous way of communicating.

Forgetfulness: The passive aggressive avoids responsibility by "forgetting." How convenient is that? There is no easier way to punish someone than forgetting that lunch date or your birthday or, better yet, an anniversary.

Blaming: They are never responsible for their actions. If you aren't to blame then it is something that happened at work, the traffic on the way home or the slow clerk at the convenience store. The passive aggressive has no faults, it is everyone around him/her who has faults and they must be punished for those faults.

Lack of Anger: He/she may never express anger. There are some who are happy with whatever you want. On the outside anyway! The passive aggressive may have been taught, as a child, that anger is unacceptable. Hence they go through life stuffing their anger, being accommodating and then sticking it to you in an under-handed way.

Fear of Dependency: From Scott Wetlzer, author of Living With The Passive Aggressive Man. "Unsure of his autonomy and afraid of being alone, he fights his dependency needs, usually by trying to control you. He wants you to think he doesn't depend on you, but he binds himself closer than he cares to admit. Relationships can become battle grounds, where he can only claim victory if he denies his need for your support."

Fear of Intimacy: The passive aggressive often can't trust. Because of this, they guard themselves against becoming intimately attached to someone. A passive aggressive will have sex with you but they rarely make love to you. If they feel themselves becoming attached, they may punish you by withholding sex.

Obstructionism: Do you want something from your passive aggressive spouse? If so, get ready to wait for it or maybe even never get it. It is important to him/her that you don,t get your way. He/she will act as if giving you what you want is important to them but, rarely will he/she follow through with giving it. It is very confusing to have someone appear to want to give to you but never follow through. You can begin to feel as if you are asking too much which is exactly what he/she wants to you to feel.

Victimization: The passive aggressive feels they are treated unfairly. If you get upset because he or she is constantly late, they take offense because; in their mind, it was someone else's fault that they were late. He/she is always the innocent victim of your unreasonable expectations, an over-bearing boss or that slow clerk at the convenience store.

Procrastination: The passive aggressive person believes that deadlines are for everyone but them. They do things on their own time schedule and be damned anyone who expects differently from them.

The Passive Aggressive and You:

The passive aggressive needs to have a relationship with someone who can be the object of his or her hostility. They need someone whose expectations and demands he/she can resist. A passive aggressive is usually attracted to co-dependents, people with low self-esteem and those who find it easy to make excuses for other's bad behaviors.

The biggest frustration in being with a passive aggressive is that they never follow through on agreements and promises. He/she will dodge responsibility for anything in the relationship while at the same time making it look as if he/she is pulling his/her own weight and is a very loving partner. The sad thing is, you can be made to believe that you are loved and adored by a person who is completely unable to form an emotional connection with anyone.

The passive aggressive ignores problems in the relationship, sees things through their own skewed sense of reality and if forced to deal with the problems will completely withdraw from the relationship and you. They will deny evidence of wrong doing, distort what you know to be real to fit their own agenda, minimize or lie so that their version of what is real seems more logical.

The passive aggressive will say one thing, do another, and then deny ever saying the first thing. They don't communicate their needs and wishes in a clear manner, expecting their spouse to read their mind and meet their needs. After all, if their spouse truly loved them he/she would just naturally know what they needed or wanted. The passive aggressive withholds information about how he/she feels, their ego is fragile and can't take the slightest criticism so why let you know what they are thinking or feeling? God forbid they disclose that information and you criticize them.

Confronting the Passive Aggressive:

Beware, if you confront the passive aggressive he/she will most likely sulk, give you the silent treatment or completely walk away leaving you standing there to deal with the problem alone. There are two reasons for confronting the passive aggressive. One, if done correctly you may be able to help him/her gain insight into the negative consequences of their behaviors. Two, even if that doesn't happen, it will at least give you the opportunity to talk to him/her in a frank way about how his/her behavior affects you. If nothing else you can get a few things "off your chest." Below are some ways you might approach your passive aggressive:

Make your feelings the subject of the conversation and not his/her bad behaviors.

Don't attack his/her character.

Make sure you have privacy.

Confront him/her about one behavior at a time, don't bring up everything at once.

If he/she needs to retreat from the conversation allow them to do it with dignity.

Have a time limit, confrontation should not stretch on indefinitely.

If he/she tries to turn the table on you, do not defend your need to have an adult conversation about your feelings.

Be sure he/she understands that you care about what happens to them, that you love them and that you are not trying to control them. You are only trying to get to the bottom of your disagreements and make the relationship better.

Inside the Passive Aggressive:

The passive aggressive has a real desire to connect with you emotionally but their fear of such a connection causes them to be obstructive and engage in self-destructive habits. He/she will be covert in their actions and it will only move him/her further from his/her desired relationship with you.

The passive aggressive never looks internally and examines their role in a relationship problem. They have to externalize it and blame others for having shortcomings. To accept that he/she has flaws would be tantamount to emotional self-destruction. They live in denial of their self-destructive behaviours, the consequences of those behaviors and the choices they make that cause others so much pain.

The passive aggressive objectifies the object of their desire. You are to be used as a means to an end. Your only value is to feed his/her own emotional needs. You are not seen as a person with feelings and needs but as an extension of him/her. They care for you the way they care for a favourite chair. You are there for their comfort and pleasure and are of use as long as you fill their needs.

The passive aggressive wants the attention and attachment that comes with loving someone but fears losing his/her independence and sense of self to his/her spouse. They want love and attention but avoid it out of fear of it destroying them. You have to be kept at arms length and if there is an emotional attachment it is tenuous at best.

The only hope for change in the way they deal with relationship issues is if they are able to acknowledge their shortcomings and contributions to the marital problems. Facing childhood wounds, looking internally instead of externally to find the cause of problems in their life will help them form deeper emotional attachments with a higher sense of emotional safety.

blimey, attila, maybe the counsellor was right after all. but the thing is, there are some traits that fit well, and others that really, really dont apply.

i just dont see dh as really manipulative, just out of touch with and scared of his feelings. i'd say he has little emotional intelligence, tbh, but i'd never seen him as manipulative. also, he does say sorry quite readily and is v affectionate and has strong emotional bonds.

If you already have talking exercises from Relate, and your DH won't do them, I don't think there's much you can do. He's not communicating about things that bother him. You can't make him communicate.

I guess the only other suggestion I would make is to try to get him to go into solo therapy.

Crikey, I think you might be married to my DH.
I always thought he was just an avoider. But reading through maybe he his passive/aggressive.

Good luck to you Schmu. I hope you work this out.

If he wont do the exercises, he is basically communicating the message that you have the problem and he doesn't want to change. There is a limit to how much 'work' you can do on a relationship in which the other partner is perfectly content with the way things are and doesn't see it as in his/her interests to change.

schmu. My H is PA - and exactly how you describe yours. He doesn't have to tick every single box and lots of PAs are completely unaware of the fact they are doing it at all (as my dh is).

My H says sorry but will still repeat the behaviour (PAs are very good at saying the right thing at the right time, but not so good with doing what they say).

I would say that yours is a very mild case, but it can be infuriating. Not doing exercises etc. would be the PA's way of protesting that they are upset about something (probably the suggestion about being PA)

But it is just a label. Worth reading up on though.

"The passive aggressive never looks internally and examines their role in a relationship problem. They have to externalize it and blame others for having shortcomings. To accept that he/she has flaws would be tantamount to emotional self-destruction. They live in denial of their self-destructive behaviours, the consequences of those behaviors and the choices they make that cause others so much pain."

my god, that first sentence is so scarily true. our relationship is in trouble. i have admitted freely that i am:
grumpy
can be unaffectionate
can be oversensitive
need to be more physical
a bit controlling

he has acknowledged nothing.

a bit of background:
he had a female 'confidante' back in november that he lied about repeadtedly, leaving massive trust issues. since then he has been out on drinking sessions with mates and concealed details from me (eg going back to female friends house at 3am and pretending it was a bloke's house).there was also a big fall out with his mum, who treated me v badly, but he refused to confront her behaviour and went on meeting up with her whilst she was refusing to speak to me .

basically, he has blamed me for all his unacceptable behaviour...if i'd been more loving...more supportive...less volatile...then he wouldnt have done x or y or concealed Z from me. all my fault. and there's me thinking- he's right, i do need to change.

...and i DO need to change. but boy, have i got my work cut out dealing with his personality type.

it has just hit me that in 5 months of marrital crisis, he's not really acknowledged a single fault of his own.

am such a slow typer! just wanted to say tahnks so much ronshar, solid, youknow and everyone for your kind replies.

gosh, talk about food for thought.

schmu - you sound like a normal woman to me

Just so you know - grumpy and controlling (from your list) are also classic reactions to dealing with a PA on a regular basis.

PAs are usually created in childhood, they never learn how to deal with anger constructively so just squash it. Any chance one or both of your DH's parents are domineering?

Also never taking responsibility for anything - everything is always someone else's fault - is typical.

youknow, that is spooky. dh says sorry ALL the time then does the exact same thing. eg stays out v late and promises to text then doesnt, then says sorry, then goes out agin and whatdyou know, no text telling me his plans.

ok, can i get some perspective on last night's argument? he went to a pub quiz with mates on weds. he came home at midnight (fine) and was crashing about loudly and not walking staright. next morning, i'm sure i heard him vomit. i said - blimey, what did you drink last night?? he was a bit evasive. i then found out through mutual friends that they'd won a big bottle of vodka and that the other guys had been sick.

i'm just so tired, in the light of our trust issues, of him deliberately concealing details from me. the vodka is not a bit deal, but his tendency to want to hide things from me is. he always promises to be more up front, then isnt. this probably sounds trivial, but he has lied alot about late nights out, and it sets alrm bells ringing when he recounts a story to me at length but misses out details that he thinks will get him in to 'trouble' (which is crazy cos in spite of everything, i do encourage him to socialise, but to just to text me his plans).

... it just felt very uncomfortable to hear a different version of dh's night out from his mate's partner.

youknow, that is v interesting. however, i do think i'm quite a compulsive organiser and quite grumpy anyway!

what really drives me mad though, is that dh thinks that isconflict averse ways are GOOD as he's 'laid back' 'and 'just a bit more relaxed' than i am. whathe doesnt get is that it is him that stresses me out and drives me to distraction! he def brings out levels of anger and frustration in me that no one else can (except maybe my mum, who is a PA of the sulky learned helplessness variety. which is prob why i didnt associate PA with dh to start with as for me PA= my mum)

and yes, dh has a vvvvv domineering mum. and his family never discuss issues with each other. ever.

youknow, does your dh know he's PA?

should i maybe print out this thread for my dh, or maybe just the PA traits?

this thread is v cathartic for me, as you can prob tell from my ranting! but also a bit depressing. it sounds like PA is almost a personality disorder, from whch there is no escape. i've often had this feeling that i can discuss upsets with dh that have an emotional slant to them, that are to me v clear cut and complete no -brainers, yet dh would argue that black was white. i think most of this comes down to a PA tendency not to be able to acknoweldege fault.

i think he needs solo counselling. but never in a million years...

It's all so familiar. The lies are often really really stupid and guaranteed to be found out (resulting in a bigger confrontation down the line) but even knowing that the automatic reaction is to lie.

Laid back is fine as long as issues are actually resolved - and that is the difference between someone who is just laid back and the PA.

When I first suggested PA to DH he got really aggressive (very unlike him) and denied it outright. I left it to sink in and as he was seeing a counsellor anyway, she actually suggested it to him too.

It's a difficult one to get past because the PA will sabotage treatment. I remember reading a really long extract on "advice to counsellors dealing with the PA" and how they mustn't get disheartened by constant promises to try new behaviours, which then aren't followed through - so if it's hard for people counselling the PA, it's a million times harder for the wife!

Sorry to be little help, but dh does accept it, makes all the right promises and then does nothing to change. It is a case of trying to change a lifetime behaviour, so it's a slow process.

(My dh has depression too at the moment, so he's not a good example of what can be achieved).

thanks so much, youknow.

to be fair to dh, he has finally admitted that his whole family find conflict hard, including him, and that they need to work on that. but that hasnt transalted into actually dealing with anything that has cropped up subsequently in a better way.

think i might printout for dh

x

I really hope you sort it.

One of the ways they use is role playing conflict - so DH would come to you with something rather than lying about it and even if it annoyed you, you would be calm and talk it through so that he could learn to stop lying about things.

There's not a lot of logic in PA so remember that the lies often do not really even need a reason, they're automatic. So you'll never understand why (but at least that means he isn't lying because he's hiding things, he's lying to not have to resolve things), which is also frustrating!

But the lying has to stop, because it undermines trust (for no good reason!).

my god youknow, youre right. he's lying so that he doesnt havent to face conflict with me (re vodka... that mightve meant mild disapproval on downing spirits on school night with sick child in house...).

he is lying to avoid conflict with me, but i've interpreted it as lying to hide things from me, hence the lack of trust!!!

wow this is a ightbulb moment for me!

he then blames ME for making him lie (because i supposedly overreact) when actually its he who simply wants to avoid conflict at any cost.

Yup! That's it exactly.

So from his point of view he can't tell you the truth because you overreact (i.e. react in a normal and healthy way to try to resolve the issue, but to him this is conflict) so to avoid conflict he lies.

It is infuriating! I hate lying, and the pointless, casual type is no less problematical for your relationship. He needs to learn that conflict can be constructive and you need to learn to rebuild trust in him (by him stopping lying and doing his bit!)

It is not your fault at all! Really truly not your fault! And he's not doing it to hurt you, but he is doing it.

he also does this other wierd thing whereby he apologises for doing something wrong, then if i dont let the matter drop/ make up/ stop looking uspset immediately, he kind of back tracks and retracts his apology. he starts getting annoyed with me all over again leading me to belief that he was never really sorry at all and that any acknowledgement of wrong doing was a complete charade.

i'm sorry, i'm really ranting. i'm getting no work done today. i just feel so preoccupied with dh after rowing last night.

when we argue, its like he clicks into this distant untouchable mode, where he really upsets me and nothing i say gets through.

Funnily enough with the PA often you have to look at their actions and ignore their words. One of my books says that PAs need to understand that saying sorry is not being sorry, and that rather than say it and repeat the behaviour the other person would prefer you made amends (which includes not doing whatever it was again!). The apology for the PA is just a way to avoid conflict, so if it doesn't work (as is often the case when you're being apologised to for something you know is going to happen again) they can get quite arsey as you were supposed to be grateful for the apology.

They don't understand problem resolution at all - and that's where all of this stems from; the lying, the false apology, the blaming. Your DH needs to accept that.

The problem with PAs is often when you look at the behaviour it can all seem a bit petty to be annoyed about it, but we're not talking about isolated incidents, they all add up. So it's really easy for them to say "I just told a white lie about X" but when you add up all the lies they become a huge issue. You have to get them to see the whole picture.

that is so true. and its prob why he contradicts himself and denies saying things so often. (if he didnt mean what he was saying and was just trying to appease me , he had no real 'ownership' of what he was saying in the first place.)

he is like a child who promises to tidy his room and then doesnt.

but...he is a kind, gentle, caring man. and a lovely , lovely dad. but he is a bullshitter and can seem to lack integrity. is that where the PA bit comes in, i wonder? you can surely be a good person with some PA tendencies? being PA doesnt mean rotten to the core, does it?? it all sounds so bleak!

Your dh sounds like mine was before the depression kicked in (nothing to do with the PA, but turned him from what you described into a complete stranger with PA, not nice). Of course it doesn't make you a bad person, but yes, it does make you less trustworthy (people around you can't always trust your word) and rubbish in any situation where conflict comes in.

It is a very child-like form of dealing with things and you as his wife can then end up taking the responsible role.

PA doesn't mean rotten to the core, it just means they are avoiding an important part of their emotions - anger.

The therapy for it involves finding the root of the problem (usually upbringing) and then learning that it is ok to feel angry and to say no to people (rather than saying yes with no intention of doing it).

If your DH uses this info in a positive way and accepts that being laid back is one thing, but avoiding issues is another, then there is all the hope in the world that he could sort this out and be happier for it.