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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Why doesn't my mother understand that I can't give this baby away?

77 replies

electra · 27/02/2009 21:27

I am 33 weeks pregnant and my mother is trying to force me to give my baby away. The baby's father is out of the picture - he lives abroad. I have two daughters who are 7 and 5 from my marriage and they see a lot of their dad and he and I get on ok - so we are doing everything we can to make their lives as happy as possible.

At first I will admit that I didn't want to have this baby and felt very confused about the whole thing. But as the pregnancy has gone on, I have come to realise that I think it's the right thing for me to keep the child and actually at the moment the thought of someone taking it away makes me quite angry.

The things my mother has said about it are awful and she says she won't support me if I keep it - she talks about it as if it isn't even a person and gets angry if I buy anything for it. But giving the child away isn't an option for me now.

I have tried from the beginning to do what I can live with. I know the situation isn't ideal, but I have tried to make decisions which won't be another hit on my mental health or upset my children further. After being very ill, I have managed to successfully rebuild the relationship I had with my daughters and they trust me again.

Why won't my mother understand? She says I shouldn't be able to keep the baby just because I want to. I can't help my feelings - surely it is natural for me to want to keep my own child.

Her reasons for why I should give the child away include;

She doesn't want to have to help me out with it.

My older dd has special needs and is upset by the pregnancy (I think we will be able to deal with this though)

I am 'not very maternal' (in her opinion)

I will not be able to do anything with my life for the next 5 years (I don't agree with this).

Sorry......I just needed to vent this somewhere as I'm feeling sad about it. Particularly as the baby isn't growing very well and I am having to go for a lot of scans at the moment. I feel as though I'm the only one who cares about it

OP posts:
electra · 28/02/2009 15:53

Hi everyone - thanks for all your replies.

It's a fair point that she may be worried about my mental health. I haven't been sectioned but had a period of time where I was on the brink of it and no, I could not look after my children. However, I now have a very good psychiatrist, a supportive CPN I take medication and have a social worker and support network and steps that I am supposed to follow if I start to feel unwell again. I don't think I should be written off as not capable of anything because I have had a mental illness.

2rebecca - you are assuming a lot of things in your post. I don't really feel the inclination to state my personal situation wrt how much money I have or how I came to be 'onto' my third child (interesting way of putting it...) but my mother does not pay any money for my children, nor does she look after them for me (accept two hours here o there) She does try to take over though, which is a big bone of contention. When I was ill they stayed with their father.

My mother actually said to me 'If I was ten years younger I would say keep it' - which implies she wants me to depend on her - part of the problem I think. It is very complicated and I have to cope with her blowing hot and cold. This morning she said to me 'Have you seen all the lovely baby clothes in M&S?'

I suppose what I really want from her is acceptance but I'm going to have to accept I'll never understand her.

OP posts:
cyphercat · 28/02/2009 19:13

I think that's good way to cope with. Accepting that you will never understand her and also try not to seek acceptance from your mother. It does take long, but you need value your own decisions and accept yourself and your opinions, so that when your mother try confusing you again with her own insecurity, you can just say that 'thank you for your opinion but I'm fine and quite happy and I can manage. And if you want to help me, I need positive support from you at the moment. If you can't please don't say anything'.

AnnasBananas · 28/02/2009 19:26

I am not saying you should be written off for having a mental illness but just trying to see where your mother might be coming from. Perhaps she is worried about what would happen to you and the new baby and your other children if you couldn't cope again. Perhaps she doesn't want to be left 'holding the baby' as it were.

It's very fortunate that the children's father was able to have them when you were ill, but he wouldn't have the baby as well, would he? It's not his child.

You are 33 weeks now and have clearly decided to go through with the pregnancy, so it is a shame she can't lend her support to you in the way that you need. I really hope you have support from other family members/friends etc.

dizietsma · 28/02/2009 19:28

Electra, having mental illness absolutely does not mean that you are an unfit mother! Sounds like you have a support network set up, and you're willing to work on relationships with your DD's if things get tough, which already makes you a better mother than many.

Your mum probably is just expressing her worry over your psychiatric issues, but what she is saying and how she is trying to manipulate you is utterly unacceptable. I'm quite on your behalf.

I'd suggest pulling back from her a bit until things settle down with the new LO. You seem to have a support network set up apart from her, so I'd just walk away for a bit, clear your head before all the newborn chaos.

Also suggest joining the stately homes thread and reading a couple of the books the recommend. Your mother sounds emotionally abusive and these books have advice for how to manage such parent.

electra · 28/02/2009 22:06

Anna - I do agree, I think it is certainly a concern that is fair enough for her to have. But I don't think it is reason enough in itself for me to give the child away iyswim. I would hope that the likelihood of getting ill again will be less now that I have support and medication. I can appreciate, too how frustrating my illness has been for other people who have watched me do self-destructive things and the consequences caused ripples in the lives those around me, including my parents and children. I probably would not have had the relationship with the baby's father if I had been well because that in itself was damaging. As I have said, though - all along I have tried to do what I can live with.

OP posts:
electra · 28/02/2009 22:07

Thanks again for all your kind words and advice

OP posts:
2rebecca · 01/03/2009 14:15

I presumed your mother was upporting you and your children because in your thread you said "my mother said she won't support me if I keep it"
if your mother wasn't supporting you this wouldn't be an issue and I would have thought you'd just tell your mother you don't need her support to look after your children and would see less of her.
This just seemed the sort of thread a 17 year old who still lived with her parents and had no money would write rather than an adult with 2 children who is independant.
If you aren't dependant on your mum then her opinion about your pregnancy is irrelevent and I would tell her to be supportive or keep away.

Bertolli · 01/03/2009 14:47

I assumed electra meant emotional support, as in, i love you, i will be there if you need me type of thing.

However old we get, i think there is a still the longing, in most cases, for our mothers to be really for us.

Unfortunately, this is so often not the case.
And it is utterly gutting.

unpaidworker · 01/03/2009 15:17

Electra. Your mother sounds awful. Take all the support and love you can get elsewhere and try and ignore her. How dare she try and make you give up your baby. I have suffered from depression on and off for years and am pretty sure that is because of my toxic family, who BTW I have nothing to do with now. I am much happier. Good luck with the rest of your pregnancy, birth and the future with three lovley DC. It is just the start.

ladylush · 01/03/2009 18:01

2rebecca I don't think it's as simple to say that electra's mother's opinion is irrelevant. The point is that her opinion is relevant to electra. She may not agree with her mother - even be appalled by her attitude, but her mother has been a part of her and her childrens lives and matters to her.

electra, you didn't say whether you had spoken to your mother to tell her how you feel about her attitude towards your pregnancy. Sorry to hear you've had MH difficulties but glad you have the right support in place (CPN - not mother!).

electra · 01/03/2009 22:20

It's all very hard to explain because my relationship with her is so complicated. In the last few days she has switched mode again - something which makes it hard for me to ever know where I stand with her.

2rebecca - surely everyone relies on their family for support? Who do we have without family? I don't have any brothers or sisters. I do have good, supportive friends but I don't think it is unreasonable for me to want my parents to be there for me unconditionally, especially when I have been so ill and suicidal - and by that I do not mean giving me money and babysitting my children all the time I wonder whether you would see this the same way if I had had a physical illness? I personally cannot imagine dumping my daughters when they are older and in trouble and refusing to be there for them to give balanced advice.

OP posts:
2rebecca · 01/03/2009 22:40

I rely on my partner and friends for support. If my parents disagreed with something I did I'd put it down to a difference of opinion and not be too concerned about it. When I left my first husband for my second I told them after the event as whether or not they approved was irrelevent. I've lived apart from them since I was 18 though. We have a good relationship but we're all fairly independant.

Unlikelyamazonian · 01/03/2009 23:18

2rebecca, when you leave your second for your third, no doubt your parents' opinion will become even more cobwebby and irrelevant.

And as for leaving your third for the fourth...your parents will be positively skeletal and in cold-storage for you emotionally by then (though they themselves may be on a swingers cruise)

Electra, what a lovely and true thing someone said earlier: just because you have suffered mental ill-health does not make you an unfit mother. We do not know all the details but if you were genuinely unfit you would not be posting and your children would be fostered or some such.

Perhaps try to stop seeing things in terms of your mother and your family. Just give yourself a break from that and practise seeing yourself in your own right as a successful, if small, family unit. I mean you and your dcs. You as their mother. You as a fit and engaging woman raising her children.

Put your health problems to one side for a minute and know that you can and are and have been doing this. You are up to the job now that your 'leg' is mended iykwim; you are no longer incapacitated by your broken leg. Yes, you may break your leg again - it may be a recurring injury. But you will recognise the pain each time and deal with it more effectively...or perhaps you will not break it ever again.

Have faith.

You sound a little too influenced by your mother's poor opinion of you.

I only mean to help as I feel for you.

2rebecca · 02/03/2009 11:02

Sorry I've upset you unlikely amazon. I know I'm the only person in the world to leave an unhappy marriage and that anyone doing so deserves your scorn.
Some people play the game by moving out alone for a while and then moving in with someone else but I'm not a hypocrite.
No desire to leave current bloke as we're both very happy.
Just because 1 marriage didn't last forever doesn't mean the next one won't, although I think the quality of a marriage is more important than it's length. Had some great times with husband 1 but we grew apart and are now much happier with other people.

YesSirICanBoogie · 02/03/2009 11:15

It sounds to me as if your Mother is the one lacking in maternal instinct; expecting you to be able to give up your child without considering your feelings. How awful! Everybody has bad points in their lives whether it be an unhappy marriage, bereavement, health issues, financial struggles and worse. The strong people among us are the ones who come through it and still manage to make the best lives for our children. Well done for being strong, not giving up and having a positive outlook.

ActingNormal · 02/03/2009 12:40

Electra, of course the thought of someone taking your baby away makes you feel angry! It must be the most unnatural thing to have to go through in the world! How can it not affect the mother's, and the baby's mental and physical health?!

It sounds like you have been very strong and determined in beating your mental health problems and making things better for your daughters. I'm sure you will have learnt things from that experience that will help you if things get difficult again. You also proved to yourself that you can survive it. And you've done this without your children's father! I find it hard to cope with my two even though I do have DH at home!

It sounds like your mother's reactions are clouded by her worry about how hard it will be for you, just when it seemed like you were feeling better after going through a hard time, and the thought of it being hard work helping you. She is focussing so much on that and 'solutions' to that, that she can't see at the moment that there would be BIG problems with the alternative of giving your baby away.

I think that before people have had personal experience of adoption they think it isn't that bad a thing for everyone. They see it as, the mother feels she can't cope so she can give the baby to someone who can cope who is desperate for a baby but can't have one naturally, which seems like a kind thing to do for the adoptive parents, and seems like the child will have a good life with people more able to cope, either emotionally, financially, physically or all of those things. With a lot of things it is hard to know how it feels until you go through it. In reality it is more complex than people think and has more effect on the people involved than people think.

I believe that giving your baby away would affect your mental health very badly, and would affect you more than going through the hard work of bringing up another child. It would also affect your baby badly. I could be right or wrong but I'm basing this view on my own experience of being adopted and also how it seems to have affected my birthmother. It is not an easy option. I have struggled with feelings of unworthiness and unimportance and low self esteem and the feeling that I'm searching and searching for something that is missing and never finding it (even though I've met my birthparents). This searching for something that feels missing can make people turn to behaviours that are excessive/damaging/addictive. I feel loss and vulnerability and anxiety and feel I want to be mothered as though I were a child, but the opportunity for this has passed and now I'm an adult I can't have that. I find it hard to trust people and have found it very hard to form friendships in the past and I believe it goes back to feeling abandoned by the person you are naturally programmed to depend on (your mother) when you are your most vulnerable (newborn). This is hard for people to understand because, logically, you can't remember how you felt as a newborn. But so many adopted people say similar things! I believe being taken from your mother damages your instinct to trust and bond with people and you develop an instinct to distrust and to try to be independent and make sure you can look after yourself on your own in case you get abandoned again. The books call it attachment disorder and it is well documented if you feel like looking it up on the net. Adopted children are often resistant to bonding with their adoptive parents and those relationships can become difficult. I don't have a good relationship with mine, which might make my reaction to these sort of threads stronger, but I know that lots of people do have good relationships with adoptive parents as well. I have still seen people who had very good adoptive parents having emotional problems because of the adoption though.

My birthmother went through such emotional pain by doing what she did and because she couldn't face another loss like that she shut down her emotions and shut off a bit from people and kept a distance (if you don't bond, you can't have that bond broken and go through that pain). It has affected her relationships with other people, including her son in my opinion, ever since. She went through guilt and shame and pushed and pushed herself in her career and everything she did, but much too much until it made her ill. I believe this was an attempt to really feel she had made something of herself to distract her from feeling rubbish for what she did. I have met up with her and known her several years now but our relationship is too difficult to be 'good'.

Sorry, I won't 'vent' this anymore because we should be helping you on this thread. But if there is anything in there that would help your mother to see that giving away your baby wouldn't necessarily make everything ok then you can use me and my birthmother as an example for her if you want.

Could you say to your mother something like - I can see why you are concerned about what effect having another child could have on me, my children, and you, but asking me to give my baby away is asking me to do something that would cause me great pain and is likely to affect my mental health and the baby's mental health more than if I keep the baby. It upsets me a lot that you want me to do this and would mean a lot if you would support me in having my baby. I can see that you are worried about how much hard work it could mean for you in helping me, but I am not going to pressure you to help me, you are free to help me as much or as little as you feel happy with. I can also get help from x, y, z etc.

It sounds like you want to keep your mother in your life rather than saying something like Fck off Bitch like some people are kind of suggesting (and was my first instinctive reaction when I read your post), so I wish you luck with taking a more 'moderate' approach and talking to her and getting her to understand your point of view. If she completely refuses to look at things from your side then she is indeed a toxic btch!

ladylush · 02/03/2009 14:56

Electra - can't remember if I said it already but it seems like there are boundary issues in your relationship with your mum (lack of). Do you think that is so?

electra · 03/03/2009 12:44

ActingNormal - thanks so much for sharing that - I am sorry for the pain you have experienced. Unfortunately I have tried to explain how I feel to her and also that my feelings towards the baby have changed as the pregnancy progressed. She says I should give the baby away for her sake. There is a pattern throughout my relationship with her where she decides to do something to help me, without my even asking and then after she's done it she throws it in my face time and again or complains about having done it. This is very tiring for me.

ladylush - yes I think that is the case and other people have suggested so as well.

OP posts:
ActingNormal · 03/03/2009 13:03

Oh God, I was trying to give your mother the benefit of the doubt in my mind even though my first thought was "What a bitch!" but if she said do it for her this is shocking shocking SHOCKING!!!!!!

It sounds like she only does things for you so that she can use it to have power/control over you!! I'm so sorry.

How much do you need her? Can you ease her out of your life? Would you feel happier if you did?

citronella · 03/03/2009 13:18

It does sound as though your mother has ishoos of her own. That thing about doing something for you without you having asked and then using it as ammunition later to make you feel like an ungrateful selfish person is very annoying and twisted. I knew someone who did that.

Congratulations on your pregnancy. My mother had pressure from her parents to 'get rid' of me. Unmarried mum in the 60s, etc etc.
She stood her ground as an independent woman and went through with it. After I arrived they spoilt me rotten.

My point is similar to others on here. Much as she is entitled to her opinion, she is not helping anyone by expressing it. If she has nothing kind to say she should bite her lip and keep out of it.

I know you have said you've tried explaining to her, but she is obviously not listening. Keep trying.

Sit her down and say 'I will say this once and for all and it is not up for discussion. If you choose to stay by me I will be very happy. If you don't, it will be your loss. I may have struggled with my health and DD1 may have difficulties coping but I am in a much much stronger, happier place now with a brilliant network of support and I am not planning on letting any of my children down. I cannot and will not abandon this unborn child and it is not your place to make me decide otherwise."

electra · 03/03/2009 13:21

Well, Acting Normal it is complicated as I said. I think it would be better if I didn't see my parents, for me and my children. It's easier said than done though....and I don't have any other family near me. The thing to understand is that my mother is not the same all the time - she can seem like the kindest person alive and during a phase like this I forget how awful she can make me feel when she suddenly turns on me - usually for no reason that I can figure out at all. My ex-husband does not have very fond memories of her in one of these phases and described her as 'spiteful' and 'like an animal'. One of the reasons I need support is that my oldest daughter has very significant special needs and her behaviour can be quite challenging around her sister because she doesn't like sharing my attention. My oldest daughter is really the only one of the three of us that my mother cares about and she has said she wants to take her from me (no way will I ever let that happen!!). I hesitate to keep posting actually because the more I write the more f*ed up the whole thing sounds.

OP posts:
citronella · 03/03/2009 13:23

Also agree that giving the baby away could set you up for a whole host of other emotional/mental problems in itself.

ladylush · 03/03/2009 17:25

electra - could you perhaps think about setting some boundaries with your mum (and being consistent about them)? The fact that you have previous mh difficulties and a dd with special needs does not in any way authorise her to behave in this manner. In fact, her behaviour is detrimental to your mental health. Nevertheless, as the saying goes.......you cannot change someone else's behaviour - only your own. I think citronella's suggestion (though possibly a scary prospect for you) is an example of boundary setting. But you have to mean it and be sure of what you want........and be prepared for her sulking and withdrawal of emotional support. I personally could not handle such an unpredictable influence in my life but I guess you've had a lot of time to get used to it! I would also worry about what message my willingness to endure such behaviour would send to my children. But I must make it clear that I'm not judging you in any way - I genuinely feel for your situation.

dizietsma · 03/03/2009 20:37

I like Cintronella's suggestion. Sometimes, you gotta lay down the law.

Hard to do in emotionally abusive relationships cos you've been conditioned to accept the bad behaviour over the course of the relationship. Reframing the boundaries is important to develop the healthy relationship into something you deserve to have. If you have MH problems it's easy to be down on yourself, but you do deserve a healthy relationship with your mum.

citronella · 04/03/2009 12:57

Hi again, Electra.

The more I read your posts, the more it strikes me that it's your mother's personality that is causing the issue.

Have you thought about attending relationship counselling with her? You might be able to get it through your GP if you can't afford Relate (sometimes there is also a long waiting list). But maybe she needs a professional outsider to put things into perspective for her.