Our 5th visit to the Stately Home

[Nabster]

Here we go again.

Bop well done for writing that. I know how you feel, I think, that panic feeling when you are in sole charge of the children. I hide in the cellar sometimes until I can push it all down enough to get the dcs to bed etc. But that is not the right way to deal, I know.

Have to go, baby crying.
hugs

Bopthealien,

I could have absolutely written everything you wrote, about just needing that small respite to recoup while your child is napping. My DD was an absolutely awful sleeper like your dS seems to be. When she finally slept and I was certain I was going to get 1 1/2 hours peace it was like a huge weight had lifted from my shoulders.
I think you hit the nail on the head when you say that your feelings of not being able to cope come directly from the fact that your "well" of patience, love and affection is all dried up. You need some of it for yourself (to stay sane) and then what is left over can be poured into your son. But what if theres nothing there in the well? What if it has been all used up with your baby's demands already? I think in this case we feel like things are spiralling out of control. I felt like my life was running away with me so many times.

NO advice as to how to deal, sorry. There is a service near my house where I can drop off DD for about 7 pound (4 hours). I take her two mornings a week and it is worth every penny. SOmetimes I just stare at the wall (!) sometimes I read, take a bath or write. It boosts me for about 2 days. Of course in normal circumstances you would have your mother to help. But in my case thank GOD my mother is not around.
This is the reason I cut contact with my MIL for a while. She was expecting me to fulfil her needs while I had a newborn!! SHe wanted to be made to feel needed and important. It truly felt like I was looking after two children: her needs and my DDs needs. That recent thread abotu MILS made me so angry because the OP thought she was being so on the ball by saying MILs can't get it right and perhaps the DILs are to blame. Fuck the MILS! New mothers NEED to be respected by the people surrounding them. New mothers do not have the inner resources to be looking after other peoples selfish needs at such a vulnerable time.

Anyway, breathe, breathe...

I think your aunt and uncle may want to make some kind of genuine connection with you (it sounds very promising about the aunt's observation of your brother). But the question is whether it is too little too late, and whether you can be bothered to contact them, considering you may have to have lots of contact wtih other members of the family.

I am 29 weeks pregnant now and I am so worried about not having the inner reserves to cope with another child, plus DD. I just have to hope that my insight can carry me through it. I just have this vision of two children crying and me just lying there not having the ability to do anything except crawl inside my brain until the feeling of being overwhelmed passes.

Sakura - Your post has really helped me today. I am 30 weeks pregnant and having a bad day. Generally I have been well and positive about this pregnancy. I know it is a girl and I can't wait to meet her. Today I am having a bit of a wobble though. I am very teary and irritable. I will post later

Bop, thank you so much for sharing those details with us. I could feel it as I read it. Your parents denial/minimisation/dismissal of all the upsetting things that happened to you is like a denial of YOU and your existence. Your feelings about what happened seemed of no importance to them. You may as well not exist! (is this what Alice Miller means when she uses the word "annihilation"?). This is why it hurts so much and continues to hurt.

It sounds like my situation where some incidents were very bad and traumatic but most of them were smaller and taken on their own a 'normal' person would expect you to just "get over it and forget it". But the fact that they are happening all the time, day in day out, never ending and you can't see when your life is going to become more bearable is what is so damaging. You feel imprisoned in a hell. The continual reinforcement of your feeling that you are not important enough for your parents to protect you or even show they care about how you feel, time after time after time, because they don't even appear to notice what is happening destroys your soul! They are continually proving they don't care enough and you dread that feeling as much as you dread what your tormentor is going to do next. There is also the fear because nobody is going to help you so anything could happen and nobody would even notice!

Roeseability, like I said in another post, I feel like I shouldn't be so attention seeking about what happened to me, and I felt guilty when you said you were shocked that I was sexually abused because other people deserve the attention more than me because what happened to them was at the worse end of the scale of what can happen and what happened to me was at the milder end - touching private places (but I wasn't physically injured), penetration by fingers (but I wasn't raped), being forced to 'tongue-kiss' (but not being made to do the worse things you read that some people are made to do), being made to touch someone (but not where some people are made to touch). This paragraph is not about one person (wouldn't want to make one person out to seem really bad for doing all of it), it is a mixture of 6 people. Only one of them was an adult and one of the others may have been just about 18, but the fact that they were children makes me feel I shouldn't go on about it because it is thought of as not as bad if a child who 'doesn't really know what they are doing' does it. (They knew it was wrong though). The thing is, it is not so much the 'severity' of what happened that has affected me as the feeling of worthlessness and dirtyness and disgust that have stayed with me. I don't imagine I feel as scared and traumatised as somebody who has been violently raped for example when they have flashbacks of memory, and someone who has gone through this would, on the face of it, seem like they deserved more sympathy than me. I feel guilty for them when I go on about my stuff as though it was really bad. My point is though, that, (like I think Bop is saying), the build up of LOTS of the 'milder' incidents does have a big effect.

Bop, contact from your aunt reminds you of that conversation you had with her about the bucket of water incident and how your parents didn't care and triggers your childhood feelings. I recognise that feeling of desperation for a break during a demanding young child's naps and the anger when you don't get it. But it is even worse when your childhood unprocessed feelings have been triggered and your brain desparetely wants to process it to relieve the pain but it feels like it is going to overload because there are all the demands and other 'information inputs' into your brain from your child as well. It makes you want to lash out at your child.

Naswm, you look at the picture of that child and it "isn't you" - is this because you don't WANT it to be you? You don't want to accept that the things that happened to her happened to YOU because it hurts. In my case I don't want to be that girl in my photos because I still feel she is crap and that is why bad things happened to her. And I really thought I was over thinking any of it was my fault!

OnePlusOne, I bet you ARE being triggered all the time by DH. I get triggered by my DH and say things like "Don't tell me what to do, you aren't in charge of me, don't try to control me". Somebody controlling me is a big fear. It sounds like you felt like your DH was trying to boss you and control you and make you do what he thought you should do with the allergy tablets. You could have said reasonably, "I can see your POV but I am going to do it this way because I think it is better" but I can see why you didn't because you were triggered and reacted too quickly before you could even think about it to the prospect of someone trying to control/dominate you. Another thing I say to DH when I'm being triggered is "You think I'm stupid don't you, you think everyone is stupid except you, don't make me out to be ridiculous". He says "I think you've gone insane" (because I've overreacted so much to a really small comment).

PinkyMinxy, you must feel like you are being stalked by your old family and that you can't escape from them! I can imagine the pressure that must build up in you from that. They seem to want you to help them but what about you?

Roseability, the situation where you are expected to travel to visit is a clear example of feeling you have to put their needs above your own because your childhood made you feel unimportant.

AN - I have read your posts and will post my thoughts when I get a chance. Please do not feel guilty that I was shocked about your abuse. I was shocked because it was a terrible thing for you to endure. I think because of our childhoods we think in terms of scale of severity. I certainly don't think I have had it as bad as others on this thread and I am so grateful that you read my posts.

However sexual abuse is sexual abuse. It has provoked the similar feelings and problems for you as other victims of sexual abuse. You are not attention seeking but speaking the truth. Ultimately we are not responsible for what happens to us in our childhood. It is not your fault or anything to do with you. It is the adults fault (even at the age of 18). I sense you explain exactly what happened, with a tone of feeling you have to justify what you feel. The things that were done to you were terrible, never doubt that.

This reminds me of my first love. An unhealthy relationship to say the least and my first sexual relationship. I was completely dependent on him and when it finished I practically stalked him. I am embarrased about it now and think I was mentally very fragile at the time. I was having terrible rows with my father, who liked to imply I was a slut at any given opportunity. I suppose he was the first person to show me love outside my toxic family and was potentially an ally against my father. Actually he was no good for me and almost ruined me. Thank goodness I moved away to university and met my DH.

Well, here is a light posting on nothing of much significance.

My lovely Middle Sister called me yesterday morning by mistake at 7:05am. Her hands free voice dialer in her car made the error (not her, of course). I truly did not recognize her voice and said she had the wrong number-she had asked for one of her friends. She said, "Middle Sister?" I said, "yes...?" At some point I realized it was her and was in a bit of shock. She was in traffic and just had to call someone. But who would be up at that time? Her neighbor who gets up everyday at 4.

She apologized "if she woke me up". She knows I have 2 teenagers that do go to school, especially on school days....meow. "no, you didn't wake me up". So she apologized again for calling me by mistake and I could hear the tension in her voice so I said, very pleasantly:

"So, how are you?" Like old school chums who hadn't spoken in ages, which surprised the crap out of her.

We exchanged superficial "fine"s. Told her one thing about each of kids. She told about someone in a branch of her company that had gotten laid off and bla-bla-bla about his job search etc-I was tuning out-couldn't help it. She said people company wide were worried about layoffs (including her) but they hadn't materialized so it seems to not be a concern anymore. (telecom industry?-it is a concern for everyone, hello). Opps, I forgot to ask abut her dog .

She asked what I was going to do (today). And I had to end the conversation, because it was the critical 15-20 min to get kids out the door and to school with the baby in tow. She didn't say she loved me and I didn't say I loved her-another awkward moment because that is how we used to always end conversations.

Then my reaction...I feel so stupid to admit it. I was happy, I was happy that she had called. It was as if I had been sitting by the phone waiting for her to call (a la adolescent boyfriend). I got the call, and am happy. And shocked to feel that and to be able to identify it and at the same time I know this toxic stuff is insidious: I know I can't trust that happiness.

I mean, yes, it would be good to have a reconciliation as dh said. But I KNOW she isn't going to change. I have changed: I will not put up with being degraded. Every slight however petty, I will say something because we know the little things add up.
So there will always be a sort of tension in our relationship because she will always polish her "superiority" authority at my and Oldest Sister's expense (and my dc and OS's dh).

I wanted to talk about her calling. Dh said "oh?" and not much more-he is overworked at the moment. I did feel a little let down as I thought he would know that this was a big deal to me. I talked about it a little with my teenagers, but they were like, "so what". Like I didn't expect that from teenagers , although they are glad she isn't around any more.

So I thought when OS calls I'll tell her. Well, OS called this morning and I forgot to tell her!! Ha, really have to laugh at myself today. It is a "so what".

Sorry about a long post about nothing...except that I'm doing better.

AN I don't think you are making too much of what happened to you, not at all. The abuse you suffered was terrible, and unremitting.
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I have major questions inside me about my feelings about sex, I have questions, but I do not think I can face those things yet. THe problem I have is that my mother is very manipulative, and clever about it. As she loves to say, 'you can do what you like to small children because they won't remember'. The most overtly cruel things she did/said to me were when I was alone with her, especially as a very small child- I must have been no more than 2.5 when the incident with the iron occured, for instance, and it is one of my earliest memories. My mother diminished it over time as an accident, and then claimed it never happened at all.

I had apparrently been a happy and outgoing child, but by the time I started school age 5 I was a shy, anxious child, who questioned people's motives and had very morbid thoughts quite a lot of the time. Clearly I had lots happy times, away from my family, but socially things were very awkward, and I already, at that age, felt ugly and unlovable. I identified with things that were broken, damaged, unwanted. I think this may be why I have always been drawn to makiing art out of discarded things, or things with bits missing that make them useless. Actually, according to my parents Useless was my middle name for a lot of my childhood.Nice.

AN - you are exactly right with what you say, though I am not sure I have consciously been doing it. I really really want to move on, but can't as I feel he won't believe how much he meant to me if I stop all contact. I am so messed up and have so many things to work through. It is just all on top of me at the moment.

I am alright when DH is here. I miss him when he is at work. I just want to be near him all the time. He makes me feel safe.

AN - with whose few words you have helped me more than you will ever know. Thank you so much. [[[hugs]]

Nabster - How has today been? I was loking for you on your thread

I have kind of left.

Name changed for other threads. New start and all that.

Felt crap this morning and afternoon but thank goodness for AN she has helped me in a few short lines more than anyone in 22 years.

I couldn't CAT you as my payment has run out. Thank you so much for asking.

How are you?

AN

I really would like to send you some chocolate. I can't CAT you. Please let me know how I can contact you.

You sound more positive Nabster. If you want to chat another time, do nudge me somehow, even if I am not on mn enough people know how to get hold of me if you want.

I am ok. Not great, just ok. And drinking

So sorry to hear that.

I have to go now but I will check back later.

Toomanystuffedbears I like your story. I would love to get off the phone from one of my siblings and feel 'so what'

I haven't replied to my sis, but then she never likes it when I ring her..because, as her visit (or lack of) proved, she actually she doesn't care about me, there are just times (once a week) when she gets really pissed and needs to offload onto me to feel better about herself..so when I ring her, it is never a good time to chat. So I don't ring her. It's another of those no win situations.

I am doing quite wel on not ringing mother. At first it was like giving up smoking, but I am finding it much easier.

naswm I am sorry you are not doing great at the moment. It comes and goes in horrible waves, doesn't it? Can you talk about it?

Hi PinkyMinxy - thanks for asking after me. I am ok. Really. I think.

I am not sure I can talk tbh. Once I start talking on mn I often cant stop, and then I usually end up feeling like I have exposed myself and feel vulnerable.

Basically my story is one of abandonement of my father as a toddler, a depressed mother who had to work so we could live, and of being looking after by a childminder where I was horrifically sexually abused. My mother doesnt know, and I parented her from such an early age that our 'relationship' has never been 'right'. In a nutshell that is my childhood.

Now I will regret this, I know....

Nab, I am really happy that you found my writing helpful! I've got a new email address [email protected] If anyone is using my old one I'm still checking it but will close it when people stop using it.

naswm I can see why it must be difficult to talk. I just hope you can take some comfort from the fact that we are here and that we care.

Thansk PM I feel crap right now tbh. I am going on holiday on Sat, very close to my father. Do I visit or not? and why on earth am I even asking? He did fuck all for me, no maintenance etc

naswm, I'm so sorry about your shockingly bad childhood! I hope you don't regret posting about it and I hope being on this thread can help a bit. There are some really nice people on here and I feel like they have helped me loads! Almost as much as my therapist. Are you getting any therapy/counselling?