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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Our 5th visit to the Stately Home

1000 replies

Nabster · 23/02/2009 10:59

Here we go again.

OP posts:
AttilaTheMeerkat · 13/03/2009 17:31

Nabster

Hope you go on alright today.

With best wishes

Attila x

hobbgoblin · 13/03/2009 17:38

I need this thread again. Mostly been scared of it, although I have posted on it before.

Have any of you looked into Borderline Personality Disorder?

Nabster · 13/03/2009 18:01

I'm back.

Don't know what to say.

OP posts:
Hesdoneitagain · 13/03/2009 19:51

Pinky and oneplusone - good to know I'm not alone. thank you x

ActingNormal · 13/03/2009 19:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Hesdoneitagain · 13/03/2009 20:06

AN - Thank you, I think those are really interesting questions. I have a therapy appt tmrw and will think through them in detail before i go, hopefully they will help me sort out my real feelings.

Posting and running, sorry its DPs birthday and we're supposed to be enjoying ourselves with wine and a dvd , somehow tho you cant just shut off these parental problems and let go for an evening, or at least i can't

ps i havent responded re your letter but will read it probably tmrw and post.

x

ActingNormal · 13/03/2009 20:09

I often feel much too anxious and some of the things I am anxious about are visualising bad things that might happen to the children and then being anxious because I worry about it so much that I feel those things are likely to happen and that it will be my fault if they do.

I get anxious a lot that DD might start treating DS the same as my bro treated me and get incredibly angry and tense at the slightest sign that she might be trying to control him or hurt him.

I get anxious about the children being near their grandfathers just in case there is the tiniest chance that he could do similar things to what my GF did to me.

Basically I transfer the relationships from my past onto them and imagine the same things are going to happen to them.

I am angry with my parents and see everything that happened as being all their fault for choosing not to notice. Now I'm scared that something might happen to my DCs without me even noticing and hate them being out of my sight. If something happens that I don't know about at the time I will feel like it is all my fault. I feel a huge weight of responsibility which feels overwhelming. I feel like I overprotect and try to control my children too much, which is also unhealthy.

I found myself talking to a friend I don't know that well today about my anxiety and she said something that struck me as being really useful. She said "You are trying to protect them from things that are not even happening to them". Not sure yet why this is so useful but I'm writing it down before I forget it.

She also said that when someone commits a crime she thinks that it is their fault and nobody else's. If they knew it was wrong, even if they went through bad experiences that made them the way they were, then it is their fault and it was their responsibility not to commit the crime. This also strikes me as being important but I can't put into words why yet.

Now I also feel anxious that I have said too much to yet another person and I hardly know her. I feel she will feel drained by me and it will put her off me. I feel that I have been attention seeking by talking to yet another person about some of my stuff. I feel like I've done something wrong.

Nabster · 13/03/2009 20:19

"Nabster, was the overall outcome of your appointment useful do you think? Will you be having another one? Did you have any useful thoughts arising from it? Was it as scary as you had anticipated? What did you feel?"

I think the outcome was useful. I have a diagnosis.

The doctor is ringing me next week to tell me what is going to happen.

It was useful to find out I was predisposed to having depression because of my childhood. And that someone I saw in 2004 said I wasn't over my first boyfriend which is why I had problems with my next one. Kind of scarey that what I thought I just told myself is actually true.

It wasn't as scary as I thought it would be as the doctor didn't need to ask me as many questions as usual as she had reports to read about me.

I cried about my ex. I felt drained and had a headache. I feel scared I will never get over him, will never be well as I was always going to suffer with depression.

OP posts:
ActingNormal · 13/03/2009 20:27

Was the diagnosis depression and/or something else?

Nabster · 13/03/2009 20:29

I think she said recurrent depressive something.

OP posts:
electra · 13/03/2009 22:24

hobbgoblin - I have borderline personality disorder as well as manic depression. I think I have a long way to go and need to find out how I can manage to bring up my children to be confident and independent and happy in spite of these problems that I have.

Hesdoneitagain · 14/03/2009 17:17

Back again, had appt earlier with therapist.

I let my DP take DD to see her grandparents yesterday. During the day my dad had sent me an email asking whether we could all sit round a table and talk or go to family therapy to try to resolve the issues. I said not at the moment, I don't feel like I can face it right now.

Anyway, he emailed again later and said they could still have DD on a Thursday, they'd pick her up from nursery etc and I wouldnt have to see them. I said 'thanks but not at the moment, the emotional cost (eg my mother saying 'why doesnt she just move in?', 'why don't you just pack her bags and send them over?', 'what she's coming AGAIN?' etc), just wasn't worth it, I'd rather pay for nursery.

When my DP dropped DD off my dad collared him and spoke to him about it all, said they wanted to work it out. But also said that I'd been 'abusive' to my mom on the phone and that the email I sent (pretty much word for word reproduced above) was also 'abusive'

When DP told me I was livid, how is that email 'abusive'? So I decided 'bugger this, I want no contact at all now' because each time something like this happens I just feel all upset again and doubting myself again (am I abusive??) etc and can't keep a clear head for worrying about everything.

My therapist said...

Nabster · 14/03/2009 17:18

NO!! You are not abusive. You have been hurt and upset and that will not just go away.

OP posts:
Hesdoneitagain · 14/03/2009 17:22

that I am full of anger at the moment and need to sort it out.

I was trying to avoid the anger by not seeing them at all, but she said this won't work. If I never see them again they'll still be WITH ME, internally and I'll still feel the critisicm and doubt over all decisions I make. She said I need to sort things out (either in my own head or with them). My DP said I need to get to the point where I can hear their critiscm / disagreement with decisions I make and make those decisions ANYWAY, knowing they are the right ones for me, without taking any guilt or worry over the decision because of them. If that makes sense?

Therapist also said I'm incredibly angry with them and am trying to punish them (by not seeing them etc) and said its ok if I'm taking that time to heal and get my head straight but not great if I'm just doing it to inflict pain.

Lots to think about ... x

Hesdoneitagain · 14/03/2009 17:22

Hi Nabster, thank you x Hows it going for you?

Nabster · 14/03/2009 17:25

I agree that you can't stay away for ever.

I think the fact that your FIL seems very keen to meet up and sort this out is really good. A lot of people wouldn't reaact like that.

Ask them if they feel like you are asking for child care support too much and would they prefer to have a set day for when they have the DGC and ask how they would feel about extra help when you need it?

OP posts:
Nabster · 14/03/2009 17:25

I have had a strange day to be honest and not sure what will happen next.

OP posts:
oneplusone · 14/03/2009 20:37

He'sdoneitagain, just one quick thing that struck me about your post where you said your dad said the email you sent to your mum was abusive when it clearly was not. I sent a letter to my sisters a while ago telling them the truth about our family including a few home truths about them. My letter was not abusive, it was just the cold, hard, ugly truth. My sisters came back at me telling me my letter was abusive. I remember reading it and re-reading it over and over again many times trying to figure out what they saw as abusive.

In the end i realised that of course the letter was not abusive at all, but that the classic response of toxic people who do not wish to see the truth is to call the 'truth speaker' abusive/mad/whatever, anything to avoid facing the truth.

So, be reassured that you did not send an abusive email, your abusers simply cannot/don't want to see the truth and will anything and everything to make you think you are mad/bad to avoid facing the truth themselves.

PinkyMinxy · 14/03/2009 21:43

Difficult day for me today. Turns out I have been kept completely out of the loop regarding his present (re- the family 'do'). B was sorting it out and was meant to get back in touch with details, costs etc. once booked but he 'forgot'. THe present is very expensive- deliberatlely so, I think, it's for B to show how wealthy he is.

When I asked why I had not been kept informed I got the usual stuff of how it
wasn't about me that I'd spoilt it all now anyway and I could give some money if I wanted it didn't really matter to him either way, but I would have to let my sis know because I won't be on the gift card!

Then, the truth comes out- it wasn't a group present at all, it was going to be a holiday with b and family and them but things had changed.I thought it was a suprise joint present, but it tranpires this was a lie.

It is very odd as my mum has not mentionned anything about it, and I have seen her about four times since it was first mentioned to me.

But I am the one who is dificult, made it all horrible, is to blame for not being informed about things.

Some of the things he said sounded very like my mum.

It feels like the usual thing of my old family actually being a family of four, I am the non existant number five.

This has ruined my day. I feel that it is my fault. DH has had to explain to me how it isn't over and over but I can't get my head around it.

And now I am really dreading the family do.

I don't want to see any of them again. It's not as punishment, or anger. It's self preservation, I think. I can't keep going back for more everytime they do this to me. I have my own family to think of.

Sorry to post over your discussion, he'sdoneitagain, Nabster. how are you doing?

BopTheAlien · 14/03/2009 23:59

Really sorry to hear of the crap you're going thro with your old families, Hesdoneitagain and pinkyminxy.

Hesdoneitagain, not sure where your therapist is coming from, saying you need to sort things out either with them or for yourself - surely that's why you're in therapy in the first place?? Sounds like you're trying your hardest to me, and god knows, it is hard. Yes, it's true, they do stay with you internally even if you never see them - but fwiw, I think it is much much harder to sort it out internally when the same old crap just keeps on happening externally. I think you've been trying to buy yourself some breathing space, so you can try and deal with it. Maybe I'm tubthumping here because that's the choice I've made, but a couple of times you've mentioned how when they pull this stuff it leaves you feeling all upset again, and doubting yourself and at a complete loss as to what to do, and I know how much it hurts to feel that way and to feel stuck there. And IME sometimes you do need to pull back and stop their crap happening to you for a while - in the present at least - just so you can get strong enough to deal with it, to get to that point as your DP says where you can feel confident in your decisions and perspective even if they disagree/undermine you. (Oh, and btw, re calling your email abusive - no, of course it's not, not in the slightest, but I've had the same thing - my F calling ME a bully!!!!! because I wouldn't give him a free pass to keep on bullying me like he and my M and my older B had all done for years and years....It's like oneplusone says, abusers always say the victim is the abuser; Hitler blamed the Jews, FGS.)

As I write this I'm still stuck myself in my old fear that it's never really going to work out. I realised recently that I've spent most of my adult life seeing counsellors or therapists or healers of one sort or another. Which was quite a sobering thought. Unfortunately, most of them failed me pretty badly. They made promises they couldn't deliver; they offered understanding they didn't really have; they held me back because of their own denial (it's scary how many therapists are prone to denial about some of the really dark stuff...) and I never felt any of them really "got" me even though I'd go and spill my guts out week after week and work so damn hard on trying to recover.

Fortunately I then found the therapist I have worked with for 8 years now and the only person (professional) I would ever trust with these issues. She "got" me instantly and the relief of feeling so utterly understood and supported and validated was and is precious beyond words. And in those 8 years my life has gone from being a waking nightmare to something pretty wonderful, certainly on the outside, and to an extent on the inside too.

But the poison my parents left in me hasn't yet been healed, and my life can still be a living hell because I still talk to myself and think of myself in the abusive way they taught me, and that is something I am still working on and may still be working on for the rest of my life, for all I know. Often I feel so damaged that it seems impossible I'll ever get over the past, and it's a very dark place to be. Sometimes the darkness has been so overwhelming that I've felt mired in guilt for marrying DH and bringing our DS into the world, thinking I should have just died and let the damage they did to me die with me rather than risk passing it on, and infliciting it on those I love.

Nabster, when I'm not in the middle of it, I think that depression isn't so much an illness as a logical, actually quite healthy reaction to being hurt really badly. I just don't buy into it being purely a chemical imbalance for example. I know that behind my depression (and I've struggled with it since my teens probably, though never been diagnosed as such) there is a lot of pain, grief and sadness - and I've often heard it said that it's linked to repressed anger too, which makes sense to me. Anyway, maybe I'm tubthumping again, but it helps me to see it as a healthy response to an originally very unhealthy situation that you weren't responsible for and couldn't take on at the time, rather than a weakness.

So many people on here have been talking about anxiety - ActingNormal, I also have that feeling of having done something wrong when I open up to someone I'm not sure I can trust not to reject me. It's a really sick, scary feeling. And ditto the fear of people coming round to my home... We must all have been terrorised in some way as children. I've actually been having anxiety issues about posting on here - it's such an awesome thread to find, incredible to read people expressing the things I'm always trying to express myself, and I so want to join in; but I get overwhelmed by trying to "get it right", worried I'll offend people by not knowing enough of their story or missing them out, or inadvertently saying something hurtful, worried about being rejected or ignored - again, things other people on here have been voicing so I know I'm not alone, so I hope I'll be forgiven for not always being the 100% sensitive, caring, thoughtful virtual buddy I'd like to imagine myself as!!! (so, no perfectionism or people pleasing there, then.... )

Sakura, thank you for your response to my previous post, it really meant a lot - and congrats on your writing competition results!Thanks too oneplusone for kind words and a welcome to us new posters. It is hard to keep up with this thread, isn't it? I do read the all the posts, and often want to say something back to different people, but just can't find the words. Found a few tonight tho... Night all.

Nabster · 15/03/2009 09:43

BotTheAlien

That makes a lot of sense. The doctor said I was predisposed to having depression because of my childhood experiences.

OP posts:
Nabster · 15/03/2009 09:44

Sorry, Bop

OP posts:
PinkyMinxy · 15/03/2009 10:14

BopTheAlien that was a really insightful post.

A good rl friend who has been through therapy for her childhood experiences said the same thing to me- that space is very uuseful when going through this process.

I also have to think of my DH and my little DC. Every time get crapped on by my family, I go through this whole gamut of emotions, anxieies, and try to work out the logic of where they are coming from.

Obviously there is no logic, so I am left with the old guilt and self-doubt to fall back on. Thankfully, DH has been witnessing some of their behaviours towards me, and is able to point out what is going on.

The mental and emotional drain from each of these 'episodes' is very damaging- I end up feeling ill and my relationship with DH gets strained, and the DC must feel the atmosphere. I end up having to take myself offfor a bit.

I think I resolved things about yesterday in a dream last night, as I woke up thinking very clearly- that normal people do not 'punish' people for being too busy to chase someone up (this is what I did wrong, apparrently) by cutting them out of soemthing.

And normally when you book a joint venture you email or something everyone involved- you don't pick out someone to leave out.

And just because they all happpen to be getting along at the moment does not meanm they have to cut me out.

The only time I really get attention from any of them is when they ahve fallen out with each other. They then offload on me (v.upsetting) then ultimately end up blaming me.
If you imaggine a bunch of people rowing really badly, then they all turn to notice someone sitting minding their own business in the corner and unanimously turn and point at them, saying, 'it must be her fault'

That's how it feels to me, anyway. An never ending repeating cycle, mainly fuelld by my mum's vile gossip and disinformation, which they lap up, because it constitiues attention from her and so maybe her version of motherly love? I know I have fallen for it at times, to my shame.

We shall see how things play out after this coming 'do'. They may be in for a shock, as I won't be following the old script.

ActingNormal · 15/03/2009 11:25

Pinky, that is really interesting what you say because I have a friend who has been cut out of her family and doesn't know why yet each time one of them has a grievance with the others they get in contact with her and expect her sympathy and support, then after a while they disappear again, back into the family and ignore her. It hurts her every time but she keeps letting them back in because she is desperate to have a connection with at least one person from her family. It is so so sad.

I just can't see any reason why they cut her out. Her mother was hospitalised due to her mental state after giving birth to my friend and the grandparents looked after her for a short time before the aunt demanded to have her. The aunt is incredibly controlling and from bits that my friend has said, although she is in some denial and says she was not abused, there were abusive behaviour from her aunt, her stepbrother and her aunt's husband. (It is easier for someone else to see it was abuse who isn't the person it happened to!) The only thing I can see that my friend did wrong was to have a boyfriend when she was 17. The aunt said she must stop seeing him or leave, and she said if she left it wouldn't last. My friend left and she stayed with her boyfriend for 10 years. All that time since she left, she was cut out. When her relationship broke up, she tried to see her birthmother and birthfather but they said they found it too stressful.

She gets the impression that the aunt tells everyone not to have anything to do with her. She says things like "They know what a nasty troublemaking person you are" (in other words, that is what she has told them). It seems to me she was angry that my friend left rather than have her aunt control her life forever (she was hardly allowed out of the house, not allowed to have friends etc).

I've seen members of her family (there are loads of them) when she has bumped into them in town and she has tried to get them to talk to her. They all seem unhappy and talk about the other family members as though they have problems with them. They seem secretive and ashamed and scared of something. They are not a happy family and this has nothing to do with my friend as she has done nothing wrong, yet they all seem to blame her and have nothing to do with her. She doesn't even get a Christmas or birthday card from any of them.

Her grandparents who looked after her for a short time when she was a baby were the only ones who showed her any warmth. Her grandmother died years ago but the grandfather died recently. I went with her to his funeral. Her adoptive mother (aunt) and birth mother and the fathers were there as well as everyone else and they acted like my friend just wasn't there and didn't exist. When she cried about her grandfather they didn't care enough to do anything to comfort her. They wouldn't even look at her.

I find it so hard to understand.

ActingNormal · 15/03/2009 13:06

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