aargh - gifts/effort/feeling cherished...conundrum

[regularlyoverwhelmed]

should prob post in AIBU

feel like an idiot but can't help feeling REALLY resentful towards my dh about the silly issue of gifts, or lack of effort therein

someone give me a slap and tell me to sort myself out

we've had a shitty year, I've been depressed, he's been disinterested, we've been in couples therapy, he admitted a fling that happened a year or two ago and that he wasn't sure he wanted to be with me. Then he decided he did. We've been getting on better. I always put a lot of effort into gifts for him (and everyone else I hold dear tbh) - he doesn't and I suppose I should just realise and accept this. I have tried this time around but it is festering inside and making me resentful.

This xmas was a disaster - he bought me a dress that was too sizes too small, some horrendous gloves that didn't fit either and a book he "thinks I should read". He did also get me a nice book that I liked and some smellies (from the shop down the road on xmas eve, about 5pm I guess). It was particularly galling as I took the kids to the cinema one afternoon just before xmas so he could shop for me (as I'd one all other gifts) and he ended up buying himself a suit, trying on lots of overcoats and texting me from the pub before the film was even over.

then last week was my 40th bday (ouch) - we went to switzerland which was lovely. He presented me on the day with a pair of fairly unspecial gloves he had bought in the tie rack at luton airport on our way out.That was it. He muttered something about "real gift when I got home" but never mentioned it again and I guess was just saying it in case I got annoyed. On teh way home on the plane I wanted to buy myself some perfume which was half price, they wouldn't take switch and I didn't have my cc so I asked him to sort it out (he is a joint holder on my CC account). First he said he didn't have his cc then he found it and bought the perfume and presented it with a big flourish and a smiley " happy birthday" (wanker!) - he couldn't understand why I wasn't over the moon.

on valentines day I didn't even bother getting hm a card as I knew he would forget. He did. So I didn't mention it. Decided that it is just a commercial scam and what was the big deal. He was out skiing all day whiel I minded the kids. He got back and immediately went to pub with my BIL who obviously reminded him what day it was. Came home and passed something to my sis to give me. We went out for a drink before dinner (me and sis - we were all going out together that evening) and she presented me with a postcard in a paper bag, saying "be my valentine" - sorry but I found it hard to find it funny.

I just thought, after the shit year we've had and all the revelations of infidelity etc etc and then him deciding to stay that with 3 perfect occasions (xmas, 40th, val day) he might have put himself to some modicum of effort.

this time last year, for valentine's day, I went to loads of effort, bought slinky undies (which he knows I like), cooked gorgeous meal, seduced him when he got in the door etc etc etc. Now I have simply given up.

I know I probably sound like a whingey brat. I just needed to get it out.

how do I get over feeling so resentful???

(am gonna just post this long ramble now as if I read over it I will probably never post it!)

is it really about the presents, or is it really about the affair?

and the fact he should be working a lot harder to make things better?

whereas you feel you are just plodding on, and still feeling like second best?

you have to do some serious thinking about what you want, and changes in the relationship and how you can achieve them

first thing being,do you want to stay together>

and then you can start dealing with the resentment, probably couples and individual therapy would be a help again

Are the presents important to you or just a sign of his indifference and non-effort-making?

You don't sound like a whingey brat, you sound like you are feeling underappreciated. A lopsided relationship where one partner puts more effort in is not much fun.

You wrote he decided to stay. Did you want him to?

It's not really presents, is it? It's the fact that he puts no forethought or effort into making you feel special or appreciated even on the obvious occasions...even after an affair. I would be pretty upset, too.

I can understand where you are coming from: he did something wrong and you want/need him to 'prove' he is sorry.

You have to be careful that you are not 'testing' him - if he is not aware of how you feel then he is going to carry on as normal but you need more than that at the moment and all the time he will be falling short of your new expectations.

i hope this makes sense - I know what I mean but having trouble getting down on paper.

He does sound not very bothered about you, which is miserable to live with. But some people are really not into or interested in presents/cards etc, so what you might want to look at is the rest of his behaviour: is he generally kind and supportive ie does he take the kids out to the park when you need half an hour to yourself? Does he pull his weight around the house? Does he talk to you and listen to you?
If he is behaving as though the fact that he still lives in the house, brings in an income and isn't slipping anyone else a length is something you should be incredibly grateful for (and not expect anything more than your keep in exchange for servicing him), then that's not healthy.

ooh, of course, is so obvious now I just want to cry

i suppose is not about the presents at all [dim emoticon] is much more about the fact that I don't really think he cares that much and can't be bothered putting in effort. tho' he says he put loads of effort into getting work etc organised so he could be away for my bday last week ,a nd I know this is true. But then we spent most of teh week separate (one on childcare, one skiing) and it wasn't exactly like he didn't want to go off for a week skiiing himself. I know he does want to stay - he broke dow n in tears at the couple stherapy session in which he told me he did when I (having waited for over 2 months for his decision) said ok that's great, let me just reflect on whether that is what I want. But i think he is maybe just scared. we've been together 16 years now.

we stopped the couples therapy as he feel s a bit above it and thought it was causing more trouble than helping. Also the therapist thought I needed some individual therapy to determine what it is I want. I don't know tbh. we have two small kids and a big mortgage. I don't know how would cope tbh.

am going to gp tomorrow to talk about other therapies, maybe psychodynamic or cognitive analytic for me...I've not being letting myself think too much about it as was making me unwell, but I guess I must

bugger - I thought we had crested the wave of the worst

How is he otherwise?

Do you feel that he supports you? Does he do nice things for you?

My DH is hopeless at presents but he will bring flowers or a magazine that he thinks I will like. Not for an occasion, just because.

Or he will take the kids out for a walk to give me some peace at the weekend.

overwhelmed....

so sorry you are feeling like this. i think going to the GP is a good idea.

When things like this happen they can shift your whole perspective on your relationship.

It does sound like you need to sort out in your head what you want and need from him now.

It also sounds as though you are still angry with him

he is ok otherwise - crap around the house and gets very cross when I raise anything about the state of it
generally doesn't take responsibility for stuff - I do all money etuff etc

he does get the kids up and take them to school in the am - I am gone as I go to work for 7.30 so can get out to pick them up at 3.30pm but he does moan about this and often leave all the breakfast stuff for me to clear up when I get home

no, never does flowers or little treats

I know he is not that into pressies/card etc - none of his family are - but he has been with me 16 years and he knows these are gestures I really appreciate - maybe he is scared of getting it wrong - he told me last night that "nothing is ever enough" for me ( I mentioned the perfume incident, quasi -jokingly)

he does take the kids if I need some me time, which is great, but usually just has them watch tv while he works. He seems to find it very hard to get them to do anything, and ends up giving out when I get back that it took 3 hours to get them dressed etc etc etc. I've been working this week and the kids haven't been dressed since sunday...they won't do it for him apparantly

he drinks a lot and generally doesn't have much interest in family stuff, I have to force things

he does have some good traits you know, I just find it hard to see them sometimes

we don't actually do anything much together anymore - this is probably true of all couples with young kids and finite resorces

am not sure there is much we really could do together

he likes drinking, gigs and foreigh language/hollywood oldie movies

I like meditating, walking etc and foreign language/hollywood oldie movies

are the movies enough?

I am not interested in drinking heavily anymore - we did so much of this when we got togeher first and for teh first ten year sof our relationship, I've had enough, just don't get off on it anymore and HATE the next day

he depends on it, everything revolves around it, doesn't mind being half functioning next day

I never suggest we go on trips to countryside etc etc etc for walks anymore, we do take the kids swimming together, we walk in a local wood together, we go to teh park together. We rarely even eat together in the evening anymore. He always wants to eat separately, once kids in bed. Our 6yo sometimes won't be settled til 9 or 9.30 ish. I need to be up at 6.30am, this doesn't really work for me.

Teh therapist suggested we schedule regular "couple chat" times, we never do this. He rarely wants to talk.

When I was depressed before being diagnosed he just basically ignored me. It was my lovely otherfriends/my sister who got me through, and to a doctor and onto medication. He never refers to it, except if I am irritable to ask whether I have "forgotten your medication"

god, he sounds horrendous. He isn't. I think he is just selfish and overwhelmed by family life and bored/scared.

A good freind emailed me last night to say she is splitting from her partner (they have a 7yo son) - I think this has really unsettled me...

if we had no money issues (huge fuck off mortgage) I think i'd try a split for a while

Can I ask some basic questions?

Do you love him? Do you like him? Do you like spending time with him?

Do you get a babysitter and go out to see some of the films that you both enjoy watching?

How old are your DC?

I have a 6yo DD and she is in bed by 7.30 - 8pm at the latest. That way I have time for myself and my DH in the evening. Would it be possible to put the children to bed earlier?

We went through a bad patch last year and I posted a thread a bit like this on MN. I eventually realised that DH and I had grown apart. He followed his interests, I was so immersed in being a mummy that I had lost myself and lost our partnership.

We now get a babysitter to come occasionally so that we can go out. I try to concentrate more on what he is saying and drown out the incessant chatter of the DC. (Always a bone of contention between DH and myself, that I was more tuned to the DC than to him. Ok, with really young DC, but a bit of a pain when the DC are 4yo and 6yo)

I feel that we, as a lot of people do, got a bit lost in the fug of the first 5 or 6 years of childrearing and came out of it last year. We had to reorientate ourselves and rebuild our marriage.

tbh I think I am bored with him - there - I've said it. I don't think I have even allowed myself to think that previously!

we do sometimes get a babysitter - last time we went and listened to some jazz which was lovely, then went to pub and I drank too much and got really fed up with his being so physically withdrawn (overreacted am afraid - but he IS)

this seems to be a pattern - we go to pub and one of us drinks too much - time before that was him when he admitted he wanted to sleep with other women and it all came out about the flingette

I think I love him. But maybe is pure force of habit.I do like him - he is a nice man and has a zany side I love.

He talks a lot about his work, he is fairly negative, he is a bit of a loner and very fussy about people so doesn't have many friends.

we have tried putting the kids to bed earlier - belive me I have done everything in my power. Our DD1 (6yo) is very highly strung and just can't wind down at night. It is a very wearing situation.

How do you know if you love someone? I do fancy him, he has the good fortune to be a handsome sexy beast, lucky old me. However I have given up initiating things as I am not sure he feels the same about me.

It's a mess, isn't it? we had therapy for 6 months and this is where we are still. It's a joke too.

bleugh

thanks for all the good sense so far ladies - you guys truly are the best

Sorry but it sounds like he is staying with you because he wants his meals cooked and his laundry done. He seems to be of the mindset that you will put up with that because you're a woman and that's what women are for.
I'm not surprised he wasn't keen on the couples therapy - persisting with it might actually have given you the strength to tell him he could shape up or sod off. You're supposed to be grateful for his presence and his wages, he doesn't feel the need to do anything more for you and doesn;t seem to be prepared to make any effort at all.

Why should you put up with this? It's so much nicer to be single than to live with a man who finds it convenient to throw you the odd doggy treat to keep you quiet, rather than actually wanting to be in a relationship with you.

Perhaps you should try going to the cinema or somewhere else rather than the pub when you have a babysitter. Or go to more of a coffee bar and agree that you will both not drink. You need to spend time together enjoying yourselves and not getting drunk then argueing.

It does sound like you still love him, there is affection in your writing about him.

Why will he not eat with you and the children? He seems to be capsuling himself off from the family by not doing things with you.

Hi Regularly

I seem to remember a counsellor once telling me that the bottom line question is 'do you still get a kick when he walks in the room' - basically are you still attracted to that person? If the answer is yes, which yours seems to be, then there is hope, and they can work with those couples.

Don't feel bad about considering going back into counselling! Many people either settle for what they have got and stop asking the sort of questions you are asking, or give up. You, however, are still hoping for and expecting more from your relationship, which is a healthy thing. But you also need the reassurance that your dh feels the same way about you, and counselling is probably the safest way for you both to confront your expectations and to explore whether you have enough common ground to want to work on.

HTH

sgb - no, I don't think he is like that at all - he does do laundry etc at times, he doesn't expect me to do it all, he is just more prepared to put up with the mayhem of it not being done than I am if that makes sense. He grew up in a very chaotic household, his mother's standards of housekeeping were low (she had 6 kids - it would have been difficult to be otherwise!) - I grew up in a very well managed house with a houseproud mother - we have different standards

he cooks more often than me too, after my long days I would often be happy to settle for a bowl of cereal in the evening tbh

MLindt - he does eat with us - always on sundays, and during the week if I have cooked something for us all to eat at 6pmish. he is out two nights (footie and work) and otherwise we either eat together later or do for ourselves.

I don't think he could contemplate a night out without booze tbh

he asked me yesterday if I wanted to go to a gig on friday with some friends and I just tought of the drinking etc and tbh my heart sank...I guess I have changed a lot - I used to be a huge drinker and now I find a glass is more than enough...poor him I guess. I think this is a large part of our problem. I'm not sure I want a life in which alcohol figures so strongly anymore...

NQG - yes, I do get a kick when he walks in. It usually fizzles out after a bit once we start on our incessant bickering or I get all resentful about his lack of effort though...

couldn't go back to couples therapy now, don't think there would be any point.Don't really want to bring it all up with him either. Feel I want to get my own head straight now, finally, and decide what I want todo. Feels too hard to try to drag it all out of him.

i imagine he would be a differnt person without alchohol

but if he drinks every night and can;t go a night without it, then it is a serious issue for him to take control of

also, not getting the children dressed for 3 days is lazy

he does not sound interested in being a good father or husband

How much and how often does he drink?

It sounds like it is a problem for you as a family.

I agree with Lulu, not getting the children dressed is just lazy parenting. OK, have a pj-day one day of the holidays, but for 3 days?

he is stressed from work (redundancies looming) and other stuff and he self medicates with booze - he has admitted this both to me and GP when I got him to go about his drinking. But he has always been a massive drinker.

he drinks every day - on teh very rare occasion he doesn't (maybe once every two weeks he'll try) he drinks alcohol free beer and is really grumpy. he used to say he didn't have a problem as he would not drink for most of jan every year. this year he couldn't manage that but said it wasn't a problem. I don't want to nag him about it but it feels divisive as if I am not drinking there is little to do together.

he'll normally manage between 70-80 units a week

he doesn't get violent, or nasty or anything, just a bit difficult to reason with so I normaly do my own thing or go to bed

my sister commented on it this last week we spent together, she reckoned it is quite strressful to be around him with a bottl eof wine as he is contstantly topping himself up (and offering to top everyone else up, but they normally don't need it). No exagerration I have seen him go through a glass of wine in a matter of one or two minutes and act as though it is normal.

anyway, that is his problem. He knows it is /has been an issue for me. When I brought it up at the therapist she helped me to see that it is now me who needs to decide if it is a deal breaker - to stop blaming and holding him responsible for my happiness and to actively make some choices...

oooh, those pressies really were the tip of teh iceberg weren't they?!

Sounds to me as if the drinking is the root of your problems. 70 - 80 units a week, how much is that? Seems a lot.

Would al-anon or perhaps a support group for you be an option? I know there is an ongoing thread for families of alcoholics.

You are bothgoing to have to face up to his alcohol problem. And I am sure that he has one. Not being able to go without a drink prices that IMO.

Often it is the little things that we fuss and argue about but they are just symptoms of the actual problem.

He sounds just like my dad, who until two years ago was a major alchoholic. He too would switch to al free beer when trying not too drink. Never worked tho. I think that is your biggest problem and if he refuses to accept it then yes you need to get help and make some decisions.

the drinking certainly doesn't help at all, I will see how he goes and raise with him again

Am feeling much more cheerful today though - got home yesterday and not only were the kids dressed, the kitchen floor had been washed, the kitchen cleaned and he'd started a star chart for the kids to try to sort out some of their more erratic behaviour - he took the initiative, I almost fell over!

we all ate together last night and he stayed off the booze

he also sorted out his mum to fly over from abroad for my birthday party later in the month to mind the kids , our booked babysitter cancelled with 10 d to go

so, all in all a bit more effort...

also think I was down yesterday after getting back from gorgeous mountains to drab london and work, so seeing the negative in everything

am off to playcentre with kids now (aaarrrgh!) and then to gps to get referred for individual therapy of some sort or another

thanks for the words of support one and all, I know we have issues, but if we can meet halfway that really helps...

You poor thing. I don't think he sounds wildly attractive as a partner, and what worries me is how you keep apologising for/negating your own feelings. Ie the relationship only continues because you suppress your own natural and healthy misery/crossness at his various behaviours. I might venture one point - the trouble about individ therapy when the other person is the problem is that it may not do what you are hoping for. Your therapist can't stop him drinking or being a git - neither can his, for that matter, although it geneally helps. But you should probably look at co-dependency as an area for yourself. Good luck - you deserve it.

Thanks auntyitaly - NO, i SUPPOSE (oops) he is not "wildly attractive as a partner". I suppose I am of a (catholic irish) background that has seen many relationships with "not wildly attractive" partners in them, and that I think well, you work at it. But maybe that's just delusional. He IS a nice person, and physically attractive to me. But is the internal resentment and yes, anger, that I feel on a fairly regular basis worth it. What am I frightened of? (well, there is the financial fallout for a start, and the effect on our kids)

went back to Gp and he has upped my anti-d again - I know that isn't the answer but it might help me get to a place where I can see the answer

he has referred me for psychodynamic therapy too, maybe that will help

the co-dependency idea is interesting, I googled and of course a lot of it rings true