I hold so much venom towards my Mother, I can't control my behavior towards her..long

[CrushWithEyeliner]

I write this with a very heavy heart but I am not allowing myself to feel guilty.

My Mother was a very controlling, fearful parent and I had a troubled adolescence and awful memories of childhood. She didn't "abuse" me as such but she made life a misery for me and I grew up to dislike her intensely, a feeling that has grown stronger as I have got older.
To give an idea of the type of things she did, it was very much emotional abuse; she wouldn't come to terms with me growing into a Woman, needing a bra - I had to wear an old one stolen from my sister. She used to be disgusted in me when I started to experiment with make up and show an interest in boys. She did hit me a lot, her most frequent being a slap across the face, sometimes in front of others. She would treat me like I was 3 yo when I became a teenager. Was ridiculously authoritative about school and social life and would ridicule my friends, constant bombardment of criticism, you will never amount to anything, you are possessed with demons (yes, really) and all sorts of weird bullshit that almost made me into a social outcast until I learned the ways of life - in my late 20s...My parents have also had a very difficult and troubled marriage. I never knew them to sleep in the same bed which messed me up a bit with relationships. I have had a difficult time and suffered over the years with various mental problems but am in a great place now.

To cut it short she knows the way I feel as over the years I have become v critical of her and recently started to bring things up from the past. She has mellowed a hell of a lot (she is now 70) and seems to have totally forgotten what she was like, and seems to recount this idyllic childhood that I/We had which is the total opposite of what really happened. I am not able to bite my tongue and she says I blame her for my "failings" in life (I am happily married with a DD whom I adore but she likes to think I am insecure and unhappy).
I know she is old now and I should just lay off, but I am very angry about the way I was treated, things I can't forget like when I tried to tell her I was being propositioned and molested by an older man at 14 and she told me I was making a big deal of nothing. How can I forgive her for these things? But now it looks like I am being aggressive to a frail old lady. I am at a loss, I can't go on like this.
I know there are no magic answers I just need a bit of support.

Therapy where I live is £36 an hour, with concessionary rates for people on a low income.

Before you start therapy I would recommend reading as much as you can. Do you know 'Toxic Parents'? (Forgotten the author). It's always being recommended on Mumsnet.

Crushwitheyeliner,

You were abused by your toxic parent mother and I would argue that her advanced age now is no excuse for her actions when younger. Toxic people do not take any responsibility for their actions, never give any meaningful apology and deny everything bad that happened to their child now adult.

Would not be leaving your DD with her either; these problems often become generational in nature. Her actions towards your DD (shutting you out) are abusive towards you. You have been conditioned by her over the years to accept this harsh abusive treatment.

You do not mention your Dad; is he still with her, is he still around in your life?. What role did he play?. I ask this as people who come from dysfunctional families often act out set roles. Sometimes the male of the household acts as the bystander.

Toxic Parents written by Susan Forward would be a good starting point. As would reading and posting on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on this website.

BACP have a list of counsellors and they won't charge the earth. Remember though that counsellors are like shoes, you need to find one that fits.

Yes. At the moment I feel I have said some awful things to her and I get angry over ridiculous things. Just this morning she was talking about childhood illnesses. She said - you had Measels at so and so age and Mumps when you were 10 and started your period at 14 and I just blew up inside as she always gets things wrong and confuses us all and gets each memory wrong for each child she has had. It is not an age thing she has always done thins. I said no I started my period at 12 and she was adamant it was 14. But I know this is part of her infantalising me as she has always done - when I came to her having started my period she denied it and said it wasn't but it was. There were so many other weird things she did I could write for 10 pages. I know it doesn't make much sense.

I look like an idiot getting so angry over what seems like simple date mix-up of an old lady. I start to feel tearful and shaky. I can't go on like this.

Dittany, can you tell us any more about Craniosacral therapy (bodywork with talking)?

Threads like this are very sad. I think it is often women more than men who find it hard to let go of these difficult relationships.

In my family there was an abusive parent in my gp's generation and of his two children, the daughter struggled with that relationship her whole life, even on her deathbed (literally); the son seemed to hold all these issues at much more of a distance, took on day to day care of him when he was an old frail man with no one else left without really getting chewed up in it all in the same way, and ultimately outlived him - which no one else who had lived with him ever managed to do.

I don't know what was going on inside but it looked from the outside as if there was some way that the (grownup) son had found of protecting himself from all this that the (grownup) daughter never managed to access. Is this usual?

Sorry to derail your thread, OP, I hope you work this out as this is a lot to bear.

I am currently seeing a psychotherapist. Talk to your GP and see if you can get a referral on the NHS (makes sure it's to a psychotherapist not a psychiatrist) or they may be able to find you someone who offers concessions. Don't make excuses for your mother. I've been doing it for years but the anger and guilt won't go away without help. You can't change the past but you can look after yourself and your own family.

crush with eyeliner, it's not a simple date mix up, I can see why that is infuriating - doesn't seem silly at all.

CWE

How do your siblings get along with her?. Do they have any sort of relationship with her?.

I think you want acknowledgement first and foremost but you won't get that from her. She has trotted out one of the usual responses that toxic people give i.e deny everything, play it all down and say that your information is wrong. I don't think you are an idiot at all actually for getting angry over a mix up of dates.

A counsellor would help you immensely; you need to talk about her in both a safe and controlled environment.

My father is still around God knows how still very committed to her. a very kind but again internally troubled man with low self worth. She always said he was lucky to be married to her and was just disgusting to him when I was a child (more memories) but now she reckons he is the best thing since sliced bread. It is this change in her that is so false and strange whilst never agknowledging anything she has done wrong in the past.

He would always look like he was upset with the way she dealt with me and my sisters but he would never DO ANYTHING to stand up for me. He isn't really his own person.

I am feeling a bit shaky now - I will have to back off for a mo I promise to come back to this in a while. Thank you all again

Attila I had to respond. My eldest sister (13 yrs older than me) is a very troubled person and whilst accepts money from my parents she never sees them and writes long, rabid letters about how My Mother has ruined her life and sends them to my parents. It is a long story.
My other sister has a good relationship with them and loves them v much.
I am close to neither.

CWE

Thought he was a bystander sadly; some men in these abusive family situations do adopt that particular role within the dysfunctional family (people within such families act out defined roles). Its done both out of self preservation and wanting a quiet life for their own selves. I would not let him off the hook either because he failed completely and utterly to protect you all from your Mother's worse excesses.

You feeling shaky is completely understandable in the circumstances. Do return to this thread when you feel able.

CWE

Are you the middle child of you three sisters?.

CWE - I have similar problems with my father. He was a lot like your mother when I was growing up - verbally abusive, very controlling and angry. He rarely hit me, thank goodness but threatened often.

Sadly, he hasn't mellowed with age, except he doesn't go off on ranting screaming rages because he can't breath when he does (he's 78 and a smoker). The words are just as bad but not quite so loud! I also think he is developing some sort of dementia as his memory is terrible (not just selectively), except for memories of his terrible childhood.

Like you I find myself very critical of him - he doesn't hold back and nor do I any more, once he starts. He makes my teeth itch with irritation, just thinking about him. I keep seeing him because of my mother, who has my uptmost sympathy for having to live with him full-time and because I don't want to feel bad about me when he eventually dies.

Probably I am burying my head in the sand and I should see a therapist too, although I don't think anything will ever stop the irritation and dislike. I tend to get through this now by acknowledging, with hindsight that he is mentally ill or even that he may have Aspergers (DS1 has AS and some of the behaviours strike a cord). If I accept that he can't help it, that he is ill and the product of his upbringing then it helps me not to behave like him which is my greatest fear in all this.

Sorry, rambling - I just wanted to say I understand too. I am always surprised how many of us on MN have similar troubles. Keep posting if it helps.

I had a decent childhood but my own mother didn't and has always had issues about her mother (not so much abuse but more neglect and never considering my mother as any kind of priority when she was a child, and also ignoring my mother with regard to some sexual abuse). My grandmother has been a wonderful grandmother to me and I love her dearly but also love my mother and feel bad for her carrying around such bad feelings all these years. She is now 72 and my grandmother is now 90 and my mother still harbours hard feelings about my grandmother and is increasingly bitter about it. I wish she would have sorted out her feelings earlier in her life. Wouldn't you like to?

Meant to say I agree with the other posters that counselling might be a great idea and worth the cost.

I agree, Bythesea, these things don't go away with age: if anything they get worse especially once you have children.

CWE
I know you've had to have some time off the thread, but I just wanted to say to you that you are not an idiot. My Mum used to, and still does if given a chance, rewrite history in an incredibly irritating and upsetting way. She has always quite openly told me that my Dad doesn't give a toss about me.

About a year ago after reading threads on Mumsnet, I decided to distance myself from her. I could not sever contact as I think I would always regret this. Also my DC are attached to her. Now I only see her every 2-3 months on my terms. I used to talk to her a few times a week on the telephone, but this is reduced to once a month now. At first I missed her and felt it wrong not to be in contact. However a year has passed and I feel a real sense of relief that my contact is limited. She left me feeling so negative, low and emotionally drained that I had less energy for other relationships.

Now I feel 'lighter' and have more time and confidence to do the things I want to do. I no longer seek her approval, which inevitably led to self-doubt and lack of action. Also my relationship with the DC has definitely improved.

I am seeing my Mum next week, an arrangement made over a month ago. However she has already been on the phone to say she thought we were meeting this week. She always has to complicate issues, and nothing is ever straightforward. I have excused this behaviour forever by putting it down to her poor memory. I am not so sure now, as I think it is a way for her to manipulate and control situations.

I suppose what I am trying to say to you, is that the problems you are having with your mother will not just go away. It is hard to try and take control and upsetting, and there will be things you will lose if you decide to distance yourself. No way is going to be easy. If things stay as they are, you will continue to be upset. If you try to change them it will upset the apple cart causing upset and confusion to all.

It is very difficult, but as you can see you are not on your own.

CWE, My mum was abused by both her parents and sadly this has effected her relationship with my father, her children and grandchildren. Don't let it travel through the genrations. I agree with mimizan 'I would strongly recommend getting a bit distance from your mother. It(therapy) can bring up a lot of repressed anger, which is a necessary part of the healing process. If you are seeing her a lot this will be really difficult for you'
I had therapy and would be so upset that I had to sit in a cafe and calm down before I went home. Strangely it did not help with the specific problem I had. But that was only my experience.
I think you need to find ways of being less dependant on her. Shutting you out is very much like my mum!

CWE sorry you're going through this.
do you feel that your dd is ok in her care?

Blimey, eyeliner, I think you and I have the same mother. Mine was also like this when I was a child, told me repeatedly how unpleasant and nasty I was, saw me wierdly as competition for my father's attention from when I was about eight up until I left home, just acted as if she bitterly resented me all the time and I never knew why. She was poisonous towards me. She still flares up against me from time to time when pressure gets to her (and when she is drunk, which is often). But wierdly, she is utterly devoted to my sons and loves them enormously.

I had psychodynamic counselling for around two years, and it helped me a great deal. It helped me to understand that my emotional problems stemmed from the fact I had been effectively rejected by my mother, but that this was not my fault and was in fact her problem, not mine.

Eyeliner, I agree with Dittany also. Your childhood was abusive. The average person's childhood is not like this.

From all that I've read, and from my own experience, crap parents will not admit what really happened and how bad it was and will not apologise. Trying to get them to do this or to be the parents you would have wanted is like continually smacking your head against a brick wall and getting hurt time and time again. They do not want to face up to the fact that they failed so they make it seem like you are being silly. The problem then is that you feel like you are going mad and that you shouldn't talk to anyone (even yourself) about what happened and then the repression leads to depression and other symptoms.

I agree with the person who said that it will be harder for you to let go of what happened if your mother dies before you have told her what she did and how it made you feel and what effects it has had on your life. I feel really fortunate and relieved that I made myself write to my family about stuff I had been holding onto for years and now it is done and out of the way. It is an intensely 'uncomfortable' thing to do but it has made me personally feel a lot better. I know there are people who say just write it but don't send it and that sending it could make you feel much worse. You have to decide what is best for you personally. I think it makes you feel worse if you are expecting a particular response and don't get it (or any response at all even). My aim was to tell them how I felt, express it in writing and tell them what the consequences were, and the fact that I had told them and not kept up the secrecy any more was enough. I was not looking to improve our relationships and recognised that they could not be what I had wanted them to be in the past.

I think I needed a sense of revenge before I could move on, by telling them what I thought, rather than feeling they had 'got away with it' with no consequences for them. I still felt really guilty though for hurting them with the letters. I can see how you feel even worse if you are thinking your mother is old and frail and ill! She has hurt you though hasn't she! And are her feelings more important than yours? Should her feelings be spared at the expense of yours? You did nothing wrong because you were a child. She was the adult who had a responsibility to you and she failed in this.

Do you enjoy contact with her? How much loss would you feel if you lost it? If it is making you feel crap seeing her then you should think about at least limiting it. Do you feel a 'duty' to her? Well you don't owe her anything but she owed you because she knowingly took on the job of being your mother but she did not fulfil her duty to you did she!

Thanks AN and everyone else. I have done a lot of soul searching and come to the conclusion that I will have to go into counselling through my GP at first and if it doesn't work out will go to a private therapist. I just can't go on like this.

What is really difficult is the memories that flood into my brain when it blows up like this. I have the most awful memories of things she did to me that keep coming into my head. Also how I was made to act like a baby when I was so much older has kind of messed my life up and I can look back and see the pattern of dysfunction in my life.
My (our) world was so dominated by her moods and ideas I was not allowed to think for myself or hold opinions. Her mood swings would govern how we could behave, happy times were only so because I had permission to enjoy myself and she was in a good mood. I am not making much sense here, but I feel like my whole childhood was a lie and I wasn't allowed to feel things as a person myself. She controlled everything.

I do trust her with DD at this stage because she is very loving to small children. It is when the personality develops and freedom is needed when she turns. I am rambling tonight but it has been helpful to get it all down.

Good luck cwe xxx

Crushwitheyeliner - I really feel for you and agree with others that your mother was/is indeed toxic and abusive. Never doubt yourself about this. It never fails to amaze me that toxic mothers try to play the doting grandmother, thinking they can bypass the generation they let down.

A loving and proper mother who wishes to create/be part of an extended and loving family has to first and foremost be a good mother to her own children. I am not suggesting perfection (after all no one is the perfect mother) but not toxic and emtionally abusive as your mother has been.

My own mother (actually my grandmother who raised me) is now 75 and I face similar issues. I have to say that the counselling I received helped tremendously and I have put distance between us. There is no way that either her or my adoptive father (who was also abusive) will ever be left alone with my DS. You are within your rights to do the same.

Your post paticularly struck a chord with me. My mother stood by and let my father say terrible things to me. She also was critical of me and all my friends. Made me feel dirty and strange when my period started. Wouldn't allow me to wear tampons or normal pads but made me wear one of those awful pad things with a homemade sanitary belt. Told me she hated me and that I was a bitch. A lot of it is jealousy and some mothers feel threatened by a daughter's beauty and sexuality. They are so bitter they cannot admire and praise their daughters.

I appreciate that your mother has provided practical help but emotionally and mentally you are struggling. No mother should make her daughter feel this way. I can't recommend counselling enough. Please, please seek counselling and make changes to ensure you are happier, you deserve it.

CWE

I would certainly suggest counselling for your own self - you need to talk to someone impartial in a safe environment.

Hopefully the waiting list for counselling through your GP is not too long - you may well have to wait some considerable time though. That's the only problem I can foresee with going down that particular route.

BACP have a list of counsellors and they are very good. They won't charge the earth either.

To both you and roseability:-
You may want to read Dr Dan Neuharth's "If you had controlling parents" and "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward as well. Roseability, you will certainly find your abusive mother and silent father (he was certainly the bystander) in there. You may also want to post on the "well we took you to Stately Homes" thread as well.

The doting grandmother role does not sit v easily with these people all the time, if at all, becuase the need for overt control remains within them.