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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Would you call it a day with relationship if there were still a few good things left? Long, sorry...

43 replies

cheerfulvicky · 03/02/2009 16:20

Hi,
Couldn't be bothered to namechange, and anyway I don't really get all that. I've mopaned on here often enough already. This is very long, sorry. Just needed to vent but any opinions would be very welcome - losing the plot a bit here

I'm at a crossroads with my relationship with DP, we have been together about 1 1/2 years and have a 5 month old DS. We are currently going to Relate, but the slightly 'clutching at straws' look of pity/mild panic on the counsellors face does make me feel that we are not making much progress. I said when we first went along that it was my idea to go, and that I wasn't going for counselling to repair the relationship so much as to find out whether it can be repaired. I'm still really struggling with what to do. The counsellor commented that I seem very unhappy in the relationship, and I suppose I am. But I'm not sure how much unhappiness is normal before you throw in the towel.

I don't know anyone in the local area, as soon as I moved down I met DP and we moved in together after a month or so (his idea, I agreed) and were trying for a baby a few months after that (mutual idea, but foolish in retrospect). I don't know anyone else apart from my mum and his mum, so my local sources of support (and different perspectives) are limited.

I suppose I'm really asking if you have ever given up on a relationship when there were still good bits in it, because you felt it was flawed at the very foundations. I sometimes feel that because of how fast things moved ,and the age gap - I'm 25, he's 48 - things have never been right between us. There seems a huge imbalance in so many ways, and I just don't know if we have the 'base ingredients' (soprry, been reading lots of cookery books lately!) to make things work. He seems to dislike my mum and is a bit rude to her... His inability to hug or kiss our son makes me sad, but all these things seem 'surfacey'. And I think we could solve them out with Relate, but what if the whole relationship is built on something wrong or mismatched? How do you know when to give up when there are still good days, or at least good moments? How can I end things when there's still emotion there? When you feel a relationship dying and you genuinely believe that it's probably not going to be salvageable, do you immediately stop things there? What if you KNOW it's probably doomed but you don't hate each other??

I considered co-parenting because we seem to be doing that already, but the thought makes me sad. He owns the house, I have nowhere to go and can't stay at my mums (she lives on a boat). We cook and eat separately, our washing up is separate, finances are separate (I have all the 'government money' , he has his p/t salary) we go to bed in different rooms at different times, wake up at different times (snoring, his). In the evening we sit at our separate laptops in silence. Sometimes we watch a DVD together and that's nice. Or go for a drive. But that seems a pretty small foundation for a relationship. I told the counsellor that 'neither of us seems that bothered about changing things' and she said we are both seemed to be treating water. I'm getting tired of treading and I'm scared I might just bloody drown
Anyone?

OP posts:
12StoneNeedsToBe10 · 03/02/2009 16:29

There are a lot of things you've said that indicate you don't do much, if anything, together, even the day-to-day things like cooking, eating, washing up etc. I feel really saddened for you and ending a relationship is never easy. BUT on the positive side, you don't appear to hate each other do you? It would appear that if you continued like you are, you might just end up that way and things could turn nasty.

Where did you live before you met DP? Could you not do the same if you did decide to leave?

Sorry I'm not much help, but I'd consider going your separate ways while your friendship is still intact.

fuckerForMyValentine · 03/02/2009 17:49

goodness me, you are housemates, not lovers

you are far too young to settle for this semi-relationship

is he very set in his ways?

do you want to be set in his ways at your age ?

make the break now, while you can be still friends

cheerfulvicky · 03/02/2009 18:02

He is very set in his ways, although our relationship hasn't always been like this. We have just fast forwarded through about 10 years in as many months. In fact we used to joke about how each month felt like a year in terms of closeness, having felt like we'd known the other for ages etc. Now we're just stuck in the stale bit, but it feels very soon for that to happen I agree. But I think this feels worse than things being a bit boring, anyway. It's very depressing.

I have said lots of times we are like housemates but he doesn't change. A lot of it is me so it's not fair to blame him totally: we are as bad at each other at making an effort these days. The trouble is, he really does love me and would be gutted if I left him. He says he's only unhappy in the relationship because I am, he doesn't want me to be unhappy and that makes him feel bad. If I hadn't kicked up a fuss I honestly think he would just potter on like this, potentially forever. I don't think I can do that: I feel like I still have lots of life to live, and it's cliched and selfish but I can't help feel I deserve more than this.

Oh, and, I was living on a 20' sailing boat before I met him - it is now stored in his dad's lock-up. There's no way I can go back, not with a baby. I've really burned my bridges and I'm so annoyed at myself for that, for letting things move this quickly. I love my son though, can't imagine not having him now. He's fab

Thanks for replying, both of you!

OP posts:
clumsymum · 03/02/2009 18:02

My first thought is to really scream at you "but you have a child together, that is a committment, you should be together to parent this child" because I really do believe that unless your house is a total war-zone, children are better off with both parents around.

Why do eat/wash-up/go to bed at different times? Surely mealtimes are a place to start, and your child should see you sit down together for meals (no matter how young he is), and be joining you at the table as soon as he is old enough (a few months, in a high chair).

Can you not at least start to cook together, or cook for each other on alternate evenings. Then at least you would sit down to eat together, and may be able to talk over your meal.

Tanee58 · 03/02/2009 18:06

You sound very low. Your list of negatives is so very much longer than the positives (watching the occasional DVD and going for a drive just isn't enough). Are you clinging to this non-relationship because you have nowhere to go? Perhaps in that case you should start making plans. Plan what career you are going to go into once your absolutely gorgeous little DS is old enough. Could your mother help with childcare? Find a baby and toddler group where you could make some friends - you sound as if you feel very isolated and yet looking at your profile you are a bright, intelligent person with lots of interests (I like your taste in books and music ) and much to offer.

Reading your post, my gut feeling is that this relationship will not last - it sounds as if it has hit bottom very quickly and neither of you feels able to make the effort to either cut adrift or restore it to a proper relationship. How does your P feel? What contribution does he make at Relate sessions? Maybe he too is afraid to end things because he fears the future. But truly, it may be best to end things now when you can still do it amicably, rather than a few years down the line when you really resent him for robbing you of your youth.

Relationships, sadly, sometimes do run their course if they began for the wrong reasons, however nice the individuals are. Maybe you and P are just, fundamentally, a mismatch. When I was 25 I was in a ghastly relationship. I thought it would last forever - but ending it was the best thing I ever did though if anyone had told me I would be 45 before I finally got it together with the love of my life, I would have topped myself .

Best of luck - you and DS are worth it.

cheerfulvicky · 03/02/2009 18:07

clumsymum, thanks. I know, there is a voice in my head screaming that at me too.

We fell into eating separately because of the baby, he suggested alternating our meals so we could both have a hot meal while the other one held the little one. It worked well, but it's not always necessary now as DS has a more predictable routine at 5 months, and yet the habit has just stuck...

OP posts:
Tanee58 · 03/02/2009 18:11

Just read your last post. Men in their late 40s can certainly get very set in their ways - I should know - they're my age group! But if he loves you as you say, maybe you could ask him to try and make an effort - something does have to come from him, you can't do it all. As Clumsymum suggests, perhaps try cooking and eating together? Or have one night a week to start with, when you put DS to bed and have a 'date'?

Actually, I think living in a boat would be fantastic fun for a child!

cheerfulvicky · 03/02/2009 22:20

Tanee, thanks so much. Both your posts are really helpful.
I think what's stopping me making plans to go is that about a year ago, I told him I wanted to move out. I felt we started living together too quickly, and thought maybe if I had my own space and independence that would put the relationship back on an equal footing.

The upshot of that was I discovered I basically had very few options with regards to housing. I thought I would be able to get something but it was hellish and demoralizing. I tried getting on the council list, but was told the waiting list was years and years, and they were encouraging people to rent privately because there was not enough council housing. As I didn't have a job and was heavily pregnant, the chances of finding a private let were slim. Most private landlords will not take housing benefit/people on benefits etc. And I wasn't eligible for anything more than a single room in a house until I either turned 25 or had a child; both of which were due to happen around the same time, in August. It seemed pointless at the time, so I gave up and stayed.

Now I'd like to make plans but I remember the feeling of hopelessness from a year ago when looking for housing and I'm scared to try again. It was so frightening realizing I had nowhere to go that I just stopped thinking about it and got on with life here.
I think I just need to get my confidence and motivation levels up. Relate is helping with this, part of the reason why I am so all over the place is I was bursting with stuff I wanted to discuss at our Monday appt and it was cancelled because of the snow. I just feel a bit trapped and helpless at the moment

OP posts:
Tanee58 · 04/02/2009 15:20

CV, I know exactly what you mean about getting council housing. We get calls like this all the time at work (I work for an MP). What you've said is true and councils are encouraging people to rent privately because they just can't supply the demand.

I notice you are doing an OU course - do you have ambitions for a career later? It might be that working in a job you love will give you self-esteem, outside interests, and yes, an income to give you independence.

You do have a large age difference, and it sounds like you did move in together too soon, but that shouldn't be a barrier to working things out IF YOU BOTH WANT IT.

The question is, what DO you want? What are the 'good bits' in your relationship (apart from DS, who is obviously a brilliant bit ), and do you want to build on them? What does your DP want? Is he willing to meet you half way? I just worry that you are doing so much separately, including sleeping in separate rooms, that you are hardly a couple at all. I do know of couples that sleep apart for reasons such as snoring or different work patterns, but they still have romantic trysts together. Do you, or is there no intimacy?

It's not fair on either of you or DS to stay together just because you have nowhere else to go. It will drain what friendship remains and children need to see their parents happy together or apart, but not quarrelling or indifferent. After all, they are learning how to conduct their own future relationships from you .

But if you or DP still have positive feelings for each other, please try to see whether you can build on them.

MarlaSinger · 04/02/2009 15:27

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dustbuster · 04/02/2009 18:18

Cheerfulvicky, I have been going through something similar, and I think you were on a thread I had a while ago. I have been thinking about you and wondering how you were getting on. I'm sorry things haven't really improved.

I have to say I really disagree with clumsymum's comment:
"I really do believe that unless your house is a total war-zone, children are better off with both parents around."
YOU have a right to be happy too, and your DS has a right to grow up in a happy home, not one with a frosty atmosphere or where two parents are basically tolerating each other.

I remember you posting that your DP was very disapproving of you at times. Is this still a problem? This is something that I really struggled with in my relationship, and it has been a huge relief to feel that I don't need his approval any more.

By the way, your DS is gorgeous AND your blog entry is SO well written. You're obviously really talented. I'm sure you've got great things ahead of you, no matter how things work out with your DP.

cheerfulvicky · 05/02/2009 18:57

Thanks for the responses, have just had time to reply properly now. Long post alert. I kinda need to vent a few thoughts, but would also welcome any perspectives...

Tanee: Your post has a lot of wisdom in it, thank you. Our Relate counsellor doesn't say much and tends to ask questions, but I sense if she did say stuff, it would be along the same lines.
Dustbuster: It's not as bad, because I've been standing up to him. But in a way that's why things are so bad now, because I'm not taking it anymore. Things are fine so long as I don't complain...

Err, positives. We both have a good sense of humour and make each other laugh. It was why I liked him in the first place, and we haven't lost that. But I'm struggling to find much else positive to build on. The day to day stuff is usually okay - 'comfortable' I suppose, until the next row anyway. Then I forget the row afterwards and we are relaxed with each other - until the next row, whereupon, etc etc. You get the idea.

I'm very wary of expecting too much as I know long term relationships are comfy and at times dull. And I know every couple has rows and problems. But it seems that the more we go on knowing each other, the more differences in attitude and opinion we discover, and the further apart we drift. Probably a classic case of leaping in too quickly before I had time to work out if we were compatible.

There is loads of other stuff too, like me feeling emotionally blackmailed in the early stages of the relationship to go out with him, and not leave him. He was extremely needy, has some past baggage, and we have seen each other almost every day since we met. This sounds mad when I think about it as I'm not usually like that in a couple, I tend to be a bit more chilled and need my own space. Have had a long distance thing in the past and didn't mind it.

He has said fairly recently the only way we can resolve things is if we go cold turkey and live separately for a while and don't see each other. How long, said I. Indefinitely, he said. By which he apparently meant he didn't know how long, not 'forever'. I asked him if he would still see his DS during that time and he said no. I started crying then and asked why - he said because it would involve us seeing each other. Said that what was the point in having time apart if we saw each other every day at 6pm anyway. I take his point, but I thik we would be approaching the idea of time apart very differently. He seems to see it as a test of 'whether he can live without me' as he put it, and also he wants to see if I miss him. But I think he's scared I'll find that I don't miss him at all. He says he wants this to be 'the end of dragging stuff up about the past' i.e, the things that make me uneasy about his behaviour during our relationship. he wants to draw a line under it and for me to forget all the past stuff. And I know he's hoping if we did do that, I would realize how much I loved him and then I'd be with him and wouldn't be sad all the time about stuff he does

I, on the other hand, see living apart for a while as a chance to separate my fears of living alone (coping and looking after DS and finding my own place, leaving home really for the first time) from any problems between DP and I. I need to know whether I really love him, or am I with him because I'm scared of being alone with a baby, because I have nowhere else to go. Obviously if I'm just afraid, that's not a good reason to stay with him, and he deserves more.

One last thing, sorry, rambling a bit; he said that he doesn't want me to move out if we did have a go at not seeing each other for a bit. HE wants to be the one to go, leaving me to stay in his house which I don't particularly like very much. I've said that I don't want this, I would prefer to move out myself, so I can exorcise my fears about coping in my own place, and to remove any incentive for staying with him for ulterior reasons. Because as I explained to him, it would be so much easier to just say 'Look, come back home, I miss you and its lonely here without you' if I was still in his house.

I REALLY feel like he's trying to make it difficult for me to make the break, by suggesting only situations in which I'll be likely to decide I do want to be with him after all. To be honest, this pisses me off, because it feels like he's been doing this the whole times we've been together, subtly engineering things so that I won't have any reason to stray like his ex did. I feel a bit like I'm in a cage but if I called him on it, he probably wouldn't even know what I mean. I don't think he knows he's doing it. But I cried the most when telling the counsellor about how I never met any new friends like I meant to when I moved down here, because I met him and that was it.

Okay, he's standing over me waiting to go to the supermarket, I've taken so long to write this. I'll pop back later, sorry for the length. Thanks for reading if you got this far.

OP posts:
dustbuster · 05/02/2009 20:50

Cheerfulvicky, I don't really have anything to add to Tanee's post, which is very sensible and wise.

But I just wanted to say that you are obviously a very intelligent and self-aware person, who's done a lot of thinking about your relationship. It must have been hard to start standing up to your DP over all the controlling stuff.

If you do decide to take a break, I think your approach is the right one - get your own place and see how it feels to be away from DP and looking after DS on your own. My instinct is that this will tell you whether you miss the relationship and want to get back together and make a go of it, or whether being on your own is scary but good.

cheerfulvicky · 05/02/2009 20:53

Thanks DB, I think you're right. Dead scared though... x

OP posts:
dustbuster · 05/02/2009 21:02

Have you had a look on the lone parent boards. Not suggesting that you are going to BE a lone parent, but there are some very inspiring stories there. This is a great thread.

Tanee58 · 05/02/2009 21:15

Dustbuster,thank you . May I quote you to my mother, who thought I was very foolish and irresponsible to end my marriage?

CV, like Dustbuster, I think you are thinking along the right lines in not wanting to have a trial separation whilst remaining in his house. You need to find somewhere of your own - especially if you have never lived alone before. Yes, it IS scary, but you may find it invigorating and empowering too. You will be in control of your own destiny for the first time and believe me, it feels GREAT to be in control, even if you're struggling to stand on your own feet. I know, I did it, and though DP and I are sharing a house now, I know that if I had to, I could do it again.

Sorry not to write more but I'm ignoring DP and maybe I ought to join him. But let us know how you feel and I'll catch up with you tomorrow. x

motherlovebone · 05/02/2009 22:09

i just want to add, everything will be alright! you are a smart lady. i think you ought to ask HV about local baby meet ups ASAP, meet some other mums for company, support and larfs.

CapricaSix · 06/02/2009 09:13

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tanee58 · 06/02/2009 13:25

CapricaSix, that's a really uplifting story - and it's an important point to make, that it worked out for the best for you AND your ex . I do know of relationships with a large age difference that have worked - one of my schoolfriends married a man of 53 when she was 19 - and they stayed happily together until she suddenly died last year at age 49 - which was something she never envisaged. She used to say that her only regret about being with a man so much older, was that she expected to be widowed young. Life's sadly ironic sometimes . Her husband is nearly 80 now and very feeble, but they had two lovely children who take care of him.

However, I have another friend, an exbf of mine, who at the age of 50 married his GF of 27 (a rushed holiday romance). He does have some annoying habits, but we all still thought it a bit harsh when she left him two weeks after their son was born.

I think it's hard enough to maintain a good relationship with a man your own age, but a very large age difference brings added complications - you have different cultural references (He remembers Andy Pandy, you remember Pingu ) - you may like totally different music, find different things funny, have different plans for the future - his libido may be fading (she says, looking sadly at DP) - and most of all, it's hard not to fall into a father/daughter role, with him making decisions that should be shared, or being critical of you and your behaviour, values and needs. Men can get very rigid in their ways. I sometimes think an age diff can work better when the MAN is younger, because women tend to be much more flexible and open to new experiences (well, I am, anyway ).

What Caprica said about her housing predicament is valuable. It's possible that you might be able to get temporary housing from the Council if you can prove that you are going to be unintentionally homeless - it might be worth contacting Shelter or your council's temporary housing team to find out whether this might be an option, given your situation in that you are living in his house and have nowhere you could go.

And wherever you go, I do think it's strange that he says he won't see DS. It won't at all be the same as the current arrangement. And how could he bear NOT to see his son? But if he continues to say this, please try not to cry. Remember, it's his choice, and his loss.

I really think you would find living on your own amazing - but you will need to have friends and support when you are on your own, so that you have FUN. So in the short term, while you are doing your homework on finding housing, checking on what benefits you can get, possible childcare, work etc,try to build some new friendships with other young mums. Find a toddler group, as ML suggests, see if your local library has a baby reading or singing group. Steel yourself to go back into the fray re finding housing - there are SOME landlords who'll take housing benefit tenants, but it takes persistence.

Remember you are a bright, intelligent, lovely person. Empower yourself and build up your self-confidence. At the moment, reading your last post, it sounds like he is subtly controlling. He is even trying to control your trial separation by saying he doesn't know how long it will last (probably because he fears it may last forever - he wants to call the shots to prevent that, by making you fear losing him). Remember, this is something YOU want, don't let him dictate terms.

Next time you discuss this, try NOT to break down. If he says you should have a break from each other, try agreeing calmly, and stating that YOU will be leaving. He'll be shit scared, but that is HIS reaction, HIS feeling. Something I learned recently at an assertiveness class at work, was that we are all responsible for our own feelings, our own needs. We are not responsible for someone else's (apart from our children, of course ). It sounds harsh, but it means that you need to think about YOUR needs and how to achieve them, and not worry too much about how needy he is (he may actually be needier than you are - which is why he is finding subltle ways to keep you under his control). He is responsible for his own needs. If his needs include you, then it is up to HIM to find a way to meet you half way so that you can both be happy. If he does not do that, it is not up to you to make it better. You can only do what feels right to you.

I think I'm rambling a bit now - not sure if I've phrased this post at all well, but hope you'll see what I mean. It sounds a bit selfish, but actually it's not. It's a way of thinking that empowers people and makes them truly adult towards each other - and it really works! Actually, why not get a book on being self assertive? It will pay dividends!

CapricaSix · 06/02/2009 13:38

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Tanee58 · 06/02/2009 13:48

Capri - thank you! I am still trying to get my head around the assertiveness stuff! Your exp sounds like a good man, and he was probably what you needed when you met him, but just wasn't the one for you in the long run. Glad you and he have new, happy relationships.

My exH was also kind, indulgent etc, but made all the decisions, paid all the bills etc. It wasn't until we split up that I realised just how smothered I'd been - but while it was scary learning to run the household alone (Vicky, take note) - I felt like at the age of 45, I was finally taking control of my life and becoming an adult. I felt as if I was finally inhabiting my own skin. My DP - who is the love of my life - now drives me nuts occasionally, as he suffers from depression and has 'issues' that he won't address, but I'm learning to deal with him and it's working .

And Vicky, until you find your new RL friends, you can always vent to us - MN has kept me sane for a couple of years now and I feel like I have made some real friends here.

cheerfulvicky · 06/02/2009 23:38

Tanee and Caprica, thanks so much. I really appreciate your lovely long posts!

We discussed things again today a bit, and I mentioned our earlier convo about me leaving. He seems to think that it's something I badly want to do, he doesn't really want it but says I keep bringing up how quickly we moved in together, and said if I don't try living alone, I will still be staying in 30 years "I shouldn't be here, it's a mistake" etc.

I did get on to the temporary housing team last year, and was told they don't really do it anymore in our area, there is limited availability and they are phasing it out because the gov doesn't want loads of people living in bedsits. The bloke was very kind, they gave me good advice and I think I will ring them again soon, they did say last year if I ever needed help to get back in touch.

I do need real life support but I am quite a solitary person, and having only a few friends is usual for me. So the thought of mum and baby groups is quite daunting. I've also got the catch 22 situation that I can't afford to stay in the same town if I move out, the rents here are higher than anywhere in the county and housing benefit won't cover them. So I'd have to go a few towns away to find anything. My shy fearful side sees that as a great opportunity not to make any friends here just yet, because I will just have to move and will lose touch because I don't drive (out in the sticks down here in Cornwall! ) But even to me I know that's partly an excuse. The trouble is after years of being home educated and then just forgetting how to make friends, I've got very used to coping without large numbers of people - I'm a few close friends person, not a huge groups kind of person. At the moment my DP is my only friend

He said today that I can do whatever I want, I can't hurt him. Then added quickly that I shouldn't worry about hurting him, just do what I need to do... We talked a bit and have worked out the barriers we have between us are due to lack of trust; when he doesn't something nice, I am all suspicious and don't trust it to last, which he finds annoying. So he doesn't bother being nice. Which just makes things worse. I asked him what things we was doing for the relationship, and he said he buys me little things sometimes,which is true. I asked what else, and he couldn't think of anything. I asked him if he could imagine there were things he could do to make the relationship better. He though for ages and said he didn't know. I said I could think of a few things Then he went strange, said he could think of things he could do for me but that he didn't feel comfortable telling me about them. I was a bit nonplussed, and the conversation pretty much ended then, there wasn't anywhere to go. He agreed it was a bit strange bit said he didn't want to say them.

Men, I dunno... One thing I've been thinking about, is around the time I met him I had just left home, moved down from London and was living on a tiny wooden sailing boat. I was very excited about my new life, I'd lifed in Cornwall half my life so it was like coming home. DP was working on the boat next door - he offered to do some work for me for free, 'because he thought what I was doing was brave and wanted to help me in some way' he lated said. It just strikes me as odd that the thing he so admired about me, my adventurousness and vision, that I'd found a way of owning my own home even in the current climate at the age of 23 (even if it was only 20 foot long) was soon sapped away. I moved in with him and started doing things his way, fitted in with his routines. If he wanted to nurture that part of me so much, why was he so keen for me to leave it all and go and be with him. I asked him today 'what was the rush?' and he said 'why not?'. He thinks there is nothing particularly wrong with our relationship, all the problems we have are due to my seeing only the negative and focusing on that. I said a wifebeater would say the same and wonder why his wife left him...

We just don't seem to be able to understand each others point of view. He is very stubborn, yes, and I feel like I am going mad sometimes when I argue discuss things with him. Talk about shifting the goalposts.

Off to bed now. Thank you for responding, and for giving me this space to rant It's nice to have MN, it has helped me so much since I joined. Ohh, it's been over a year now. I wonder if there's any correlation between my use of MN and the decline of my relationship? Must start a thread about that tomorrow; DP was saying today how MN is 'dangerous' and (I quote) all these 'unqualified, ill-informed woman who hate men and only hear one side of the story say "leave the bastard!" and ruin children's lives'. I said I'd ask the ladies of MN and see what they say to that one.
Wonder if he's found my thread??
x

OP posts:
Tanee58 · 07/02/2009 01:28

Aw Vicky, I can understand his feeling about MNetters - the fact is, that we only hear one side of the story, and the men usually sound so awful that one's instinct is to say 'leave him' - unless you are someone who believes in the total sanctity of marriage in the old fashioned sense - putting up with anything because you vowed to do so, even if it damages you and your dcs. However, if he read through a whole thread, he'd find that many women give excellent, balanced advice and try to help the OP think things through for herself. I can think of many women I've talked to in the two years I've been a member, who have been fantastically supportive whatever the poster decides to do. It's certainly helped me no end, as despite living in London, I've become rather isolated too. Many of my old friends have moved away, newer friends are preoccupied with their own families and we don't meet as often as we used to and anyway, I find it difficult to talk about some of my relationship issues with RL friends because they think DP and I are so perfect together and such a fairytale (we dated 20 years ago, split up - his choice - I married a lovely man and had DD, but I'd married on the rebound and the marriage didn't work, then DP and I got together again 6 years ago. DD came round eventually to quite like him, and everything was hunky dory until we moved in together 2 years ago. I think I mentioned earlier that he suffers from periodic depression, and he's finding it difficult to adjust to 'family life' after being a batchelor till his early 50s. It's so sad - he focuses his negativity increasingly on DD and our two cats DD has gone off him again and avoids being around him. He's had a new depression building since Wednesday and tonight the tension was palpable, culminating in me finding that he'd locked the catflap for the second time in recent weeks, with a cat outside. When I let the cat in and gently wished him goodnight, he just swore at me . So I'm downstairs planning to sleep on the sofa.

Now, many women would tell me to 'leave the bastard' - but it's not that simple. Apart from anything else, I know he's dreadfully unhappy and except for these episodes, we share some great times together. He's probably hating himself now for his rudeness to me and I know he doesn't trust relationships to last either - he's had dozens of GFs and the relationships (including us the first time round) always ended when they seemed to be getting serious. Now he's made a commitment of sorts to me involving buying a house together and I think he's so scared of what he's taken on, he can't cope. And unlike me, he doesn't talk to anyone about it or seek professional help as he says that therapy didn't help in the past. We tried Relate last autumn and it helped to a degree, but not enough - I think the counsellor felt out of her depth and even the counsellor said that really what was needed was for him to seek individual therapy for his issues, which were impinging on our relationship, rather than our relationship being the cause of his issues.

Anyway sorry, here am I venting when I should be going to bed,and this has been all about me when it's your thread - but I knew I wouldn't sleep until I'd offloaded on someone. All I want is to go to bed and cuddle up to him -but I suspect if I did, he'd just get up and flounce downstairs instead and that would make things worse.

Heyho, maybe he'll feel better tomorrow - tomorrow is another day (shaky [smile).

Tanee58 · 07/02/2009 01:36

And tell your DP that no, we don't hate all men - we love those that treat us well - and many of us love men who don't . We come on MN to try and clear our heads and find a way forward in the hope that we can keep our relationships and make them better. Most of us don't really want to end our relationships - we love these crazy men too much!

What you said about yours tonight is interesting. Why couldn't he talk about the things he thinks might make you happy? And yes, it is interesting that he was attracted by your independence and then rapidly drained you of it. Have you raised this at Relate? It might be worth doing to see if he can open up.

CapricaSix · 07/02/2009 08:45

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