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Original poster

What would you do if the father to your children was abusive and violent when he'd had a drink........

68 replies

flubdub · 02/02/2009 15:18

but at all other times, was the best, most perfect, lovable, and lovING partner and father that anyone can be?
When he has had a couple of drinks, he gets nasty and violent, which I think stem from a lot of past problems that he never talks about (like him losing both his parents a few years ago, while he was still only young, and his ex taking his two children away, and not letting him see them for two years, despite judges orders.)
All other times, you cannot fault him, and all my friends/family agree.
The problem is the drink, and this has put me in real danger a few times.
Im not stupid, Im moving out, and will have gone by the end of the week, but only twn mins walk away. However, do we stay a couple? We love each other as much as anybody can, and, like I say, all other times, without drink, he works his arse off at work, and ralleys round doing anything for me and my two sons.
What do I do?

OP posts:
spicemonster · 02/02/2009 18:33

I agree with TheProvincialLady, sorry. If alcohol is having an adverse affect on your life then you have an issue with alcohol. I do think the term alcoholic is bandied about a bit too freely on MN but to me, that's pretty much it, even if he isn't drinking all day every day.

Are you sure that there wasn't a similar issue with his ex?

dizietsma · 02/02/2009 19:15

Fucker (love the name)- having grown up witnessing the most awful domestic violence against my mother, and heard all the endless excuses and rationalisations for why she ought to stay with him, and seen the extremely serious long term psychological damage to myself, my mother and all my siblings because of some infantile asshole's inability to think of anyone but himself I think I have some firsthand experiential advice- it really fucking is that simple!

TheProvincialLady · 02/02/2009 20:07

Yes I often feel the same way dizietsma (similar circumstances), but I think the sort of behaviour often starts small and escalates. Not many people would stay put if their perfect partner of 10 years suddenly punched them in the gob out of the blue...but if that partner had put them down, lowered their self esteem, argued a lot and managed to persuade them that it was always their fault, then a bit of shouting, something gets thrown, then a push - you can see how it happens.

fuckerForMyValentine · 02/02/2009 20:07

of course, I will defer to your personal experience diz

but it wasn't that simple for your mum was it?

humans are infallible and I'm sure for every strong woman who would leave immediately at the 1st hint of bad behaviour, there are dozens more who will hang on in the hope that things will get better

they almost invariably don't, as your experience testifies

from ever lady who has got out of n abusive r'ship (certainly on MN), they will tell you that it is not easy to walk away from security, financial considerations, the feeling they want to hold the family together for the sake of dc, and often the fact that their self-esteem has been so eroded by an abusive and cleverly manipulative man they feel they deserve no better

very sad

and I am sorry diz, for your ruined childhood

fuckerForMyValentine · 02/02/2009 20:08

I meant *fallible

sorry, "O" level English was a long time ago !

lessonlearned · 02/02/2009 21:11

Flubdub, sorry to dart in and out - Ive got a lot on today.
I'm a relative newbie on MN and this is the only name Ive had (so far).
I haven't had experience of alcohol abuse with a partner but there are several members of my family who are in long term recovery (many, many years). They have all managed to get their lives back in very good order with the help of AA. I know this makes it sound easy and it's not, but the outcome has been a total transformation in their lives and relationships, especially for the children.
It can be done but - here's the catch - he needs to recognise there is a (big) problem, and commit himself to reforming his life.

Original poster
flubdub · 03/02/2009 10:29

Hi, thanks for all the replies.
I nmentioned AA to him last night. He said he didnt know. He also said (which he never has before) that he seems to get like that when he doesnt have his own way, and thats true. It only has to be small, but if it makes him mad, it makes him MAD. Please dont get me wrong, the violence isnt a regular thing. It happened once. The anger never happens when he has a drink at home, only if hes been out. And, too be honest, if he has a drink in the pub, 9 times out of ten, he doesnt come back until 3am, so I get mad, and then it starts.
He said last night, when I said to him that I doubt he'll NEVER drink again, that if its a choice between never drinking again, or having a drink, and hitting me, he choses the first option.
No, it wasnt a problem in his last relationship, I knew them as a couple for a couple of years, and although they rowed (sp?) it was usually her too be honest (although I would say that, wouldnt I? )
I would like him to go to AA, although that isnt really my decision to make. I may mention it again, and then leave to him.
Maybe I am naive, but thats because we are so perfect together when theres no drink involved. It just brakes my heart.
Look at my profile pics, we look good!!!

OP posts:
Mamazon · 03/02/2009 12:27

I couldn't care less if your Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie. if he hits you he hits you.

it IS your decision to make him get help for a drink problem because it effects you.

you are already playing the perfect victim by laying the blam partly on yourself and his ex partner. no YOU do not make him go mad, YOU are not to blame for his temper and YOU do not deserve to be hit at all. whether drunk or sober.

he says that he will give up drink forever and never touch a drop but he isn't willing to go to AA even though he knows it would help you feel better abotu the situation.

it doesn't matter how nice he is when he's nice...its about how nasty he is when he isnt.

please please leave

spicemonster · 03/02/2009 12:39

flubdub - you say on your profile page that your children are your life. Do you really want them growing up with this? You are putting their wellbeing at risk.

He has to commit to change and that means going to AA or counselling (if his problems are about unexpressed grief) but he has to do something. Saying he'd rather give up drinking than you is just words. He's said them before and it's made no difference. Look at the difference between your first post and your last. You're starting to make excuses for him now. It isn't your decision to make if he goes to AA or not but you can certainly issue an ultimatum.

And frankly it's immaterial if he looks like George Clooney or Martin Clunes. He's a violent man and your children (and you) don't deserve to be around that.

lessonlearned · 03/02/2009 12:51

WTF 'if' it's a choice??
What on earth did you say, flubadub?

Sorry pal, that is exactly it! Choice, ultimatum, whatever you want to call it, that is your option, so which is it to be? Once you have the answer to this question you can determine your next move, flubadub.

lessonlearned · 03/02/2009 12:53

Sorry "those are your options"..

TheProvincialLady · 03/02/2009 12:56

Yep, I agree. You are making excuses for him and blaming yourself, and you don't seem that bothered that he's not keen on AA. Of course he's not bothered, he doesn't want to face and deal with the fact that he is a violent, abusive drunk. It's your choice what you do but please face the reality of the situation, for all your sakes.

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 03/02/2009 13:12

Please call the al anon helpline and speak to a counsellor there. S/he will not think you are stupid or hysterical or wasting his/ her time, s/he will tell you that you are in denial and that your DH has a drink problem which only he can solve. The link is here.

Move out and be prepared for a long haul back. One third of alcoholics recover completely and never drink again, one third recover enough to become social drinkers, so the odds that your DH will succeed are actually quite good. But he will not succeed if you continue in your role as his enabler. Leaving him while he gets a recovery programme together, which includes AA and/ or counselling, is the first step to helping yourself, your children and him. You will not help him if you stay with him now, please don't believe you will. You're not being cruel by moving out, you're doing him a favour. To say nothing of yourself and your DC's.

NotQuiteCockney · 03/02/2009 13:24

It doesn't really sound like the alcohol is the underlying problem - it sounds like the rage is. Has he had any help for his problems, the death of his parents, the loss of access to his children?

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 03/02/2009 14:04

Agree, I think that's why the counselling is just as important as Alcoholics Anonymous.

IMO sometimes AA is so fixated on the booze issue that some people interpret the message as ignoring the other issues that led to their drinking in the first place.

fuckerForMyValentine · 03/02/2009 15:33

errr, absolutely nothing has changed here ....

flubdub, you have made no headway on this as far as I can see, are you happy to carry on the way things are?, it didn't seem like that to me in your OP

piscesmoon · 03/02/2009 15:48

I would give the ultimatum, either he gives up drink totally and gets counselling to understand where the anger comes from and deal with it, or you leave. You can't go on making excuses for him. There is no excuse; he must know how he behaves when he has been drinking.If he can't control it he has to stop drinking. It doesn't matter how nice he is the rest of the time. He can't apologise and do it again!

Lulumama · 03/02/2009 16:00

flubdub, had a look at your profile. you are a beautiful looking family that is true.

however, there is an ugliness under the surface

your DH won't stop being abusive , violent, drunk or full of rage for you or the children

it has to be his choice and his decision

you can;t make him

he is, at the moment, choosing to drink, choosing to stay out until 3am, choosing to blame the rows on you getting mad at him..

i doubt very much his ex keeps him away from teh children mostly because he is with you

i imagine it is because he was violent and unpredictable to her and her children too

you are a young woman

do you want to deal with this shite, and your childrne deal with it for the next 10 or 20 or 30 years.. with it getting worse?

think about it

Original poster
flubdub · 03/02/2009 18:03

Sorry guys. I guess its just me trying to put a good light on things. Im a bit of an optomist, and dont like to admit theres anything wrong.
Weve just talked, and I said I doubted things would work once I moved. Hes devestated, and gone out for a walk. He said he feels like the worlds just caved in.
Im gutted its come to this, and I dont quite know how to feel. Iv been hurt a lot in the past, and really hoped this one would be different.
I dont really know the next moveto take, apart from to cry.

OP posts:
piscesmoon · 03/02/2009 19:07

Your photos look lovely-can't you get him to seek help?

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 03/02/2009 19:19

Look, his world has not caved in.

You are moving out, hopefully temporarily. If he gets his act together, in a year's time, you will move back in. That is not his world caving in.

He's trying to guilt trip you and that is not a sign of someone who is serious about change.

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 03/02/2009 19:19

Look, his world has not caved in.

You are moving out, hopefully temporarily. If he gets his act together, in a year's time, you will move back in. That is not his world caving in.

He's trying to guilt trip you and that is not a sign of someone who is serious about change.

HerBeatitudeLittleBella · 03/02/2009 19:19

oops sorry for double post

fuckerForMyValentine · 03/02/2009 19:38

flub, it is ok to be optimistic, gawd knows what trouble we would all be in if there weren't optimists in the world!

but you can't make things better by hoping or wishing hard enough

he will have to make this situation better, you can't do it for him

and his world has "caved in" because you are making him face up to his faults, instead of sweeping them under the carpet

Lulumama · 03/02/2009 19:40

his world is caving in , inasmuchas he now has to face up to the damage his drinking and violence has done

well done for making this important step

i hope he does get help, for his own sake, first and foremost and then for his children , all of whom deserve a decent , sober father

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