Educated woman/uneducated man - can it work?

[sparklet]

I'm divorced with a DD of 10 and have been with my current BF for coming up to a year. He treats me really well, is gentle and kind, we share some interests and he's the most wonderful lover I've ever had. We've talked about marriage and he's said he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, but I'm in no hurry as I want to get to know him really well first.

There's one issue in particular I want to be comfortable with and please don't think I'm a snob but I can't ignore certain signs. I'm highly educated middle-class, he's skilled working-class (a carpenter) and simply not as knowledgeable/cultured as I am through no fault of his own. We do have lovely talks about quite deep things but I have to be careful not to use long words and can't really share my love of music and literature with him. His manners are a bit suspect sometimes too! He has a bit of a chip on his shoulder and I have to be careful not to come across as too assertive or he gets upset. Also I'm finacially secure and although he's generous to a fault, he's not good with money and has very little to show for many years of hard work and earning decent money. I can't see problems arising as long as we just continue to date but I'm nervous about living together/marriage.

[warthog]

yup, agree with gettingagrip. i don't think you're a snob, i think you've mis-classified the prob.

he's got a huge chip on his shoulder and he's got to stop playing the victim.

red flag for me is that you change who you are when you're around him. Not Good. you don't see a future with him.

i'd recommend dropping your act. see how you get on then, and if he can't handle it, he can't handle the real you, can he?

[Gettingagrip]

-And I'd love him to be able to stand up to me a bit more so maybe that's a big part of it too.

Again with the greatest respect...he is standing up to you, but not in the way you mean!

He is manipulating you so that you cannot mention this or that. You cannot be you!

He is using his supposed terrible life, where everyone else had more advantages than him etc etc etc as a stick to beat you with.

I think you probably mean that you wish he would be more straightforward and respectful of your upbringing, as this is what makes you who you are of course.

What happens if you use a long word in his presence , out of interest?

Most of my friends never use long words...I use millions of them all the time...not one of them has ever called me on it...in fact they enjoy that part of me...I am different to them, but never superior. They respect me for that, as I respect them for their skills and knowledge.

On the other hand, my ex-H thought that my attempts to educate myself later on life within the marriage were a waste of time and useless. Because it was a threat to his control of me.

He was right....I left.

x

[Mooseheart]

Dh and I are from similar 'middle class' backgrounds, both uni educated, both from same area of the country, parents who get on etc BUT...

At first it felt like a match made in heaven but now there are glaring differences between us that have only manifested themselves since we had dcs.

The main areas that we don't see eye to eye are:

1. Dh's mother didn't work, had four dcs, was basically a complete slave to them and her dh (my fil). Shy, unassertive person.

1. My mother did work in a professional career, taught us tough love and to be resourceful. Latch key kids basically.

So having been brought up with two very different styles of parenting it is inevitable that our expectations of each other are sometimes poles apart. We have to communicate A LOT to get by.

I am VERY communicative (never shut up actually...) and am very straight down the line with dh. I think he finds my level of assertiveness slightly threatening tbh. Thing is, he won;t take that away from me and he knows it. There are things about him that I'd like to change but I accept that I can't and really shouldn't.

I don;t know how much class has to do with it, but Ithink if you are experiences such differences now, you should be worried about how things will be ten years from now especially if you have children together.

Communication is key, you should talk to him (gently but clearly) about your concerns - it could work, but only if you are both prepared to be upfront about the issues at stake here.

[sparklet]

No, not miles off the mark gettingagrip, more like spot on! Airing this here has made me realise that it's not the background thing really, it's the way he's dealing with his past and not really moving on. And this is despite the fact that he's done loads of personal development stuff ever since his divorce. So he's tried but he's stuck.

And when I show him up in public (eg by suggesting calmly that he might be incorrect about a historical fact or some such thing), he doesn't say anything at the time but bottles it all up until weeks later and then uses it as a reason to say that I'm too assertive. The other day I suggested that me, him and my DD go for a walk before we all went back and I cooked supper. I said "I'm going to make you sing for your supper" in a jokey way and again he didn't say anything but a few days later told me that it had been a problem because it made him feel "cap in hand"!!

And that's how it should be mooseheart, accepting eachother's differences and not letting it get in the way of a greater love.

[solidgoldsoddingjanuaryagain]

SOunds like you'd be better off without him, sparklet. Self-pitying people are awful to live with longterm, because they invariably turn nasty: the only way they can feel better about themselves is to make you feel crap about yourself.
Oh, and 'personal development' may do wonders for some people, but it allows a lot of whiners to remain head-up-own-arse whiners for the rest of their lives.

[Gunnerbean]

Is that a bit passive/aggressive too?

[lessonlearned]

I'm with gunnerbean here. I think it's not so much that his past has a hold over him as how much it's going to have a hold over you.

[jalopy]

Good post, gettingagrip.

[veryembarrassedmummy]

I'd be careful- my DH and I are both educated but at totally different ends of the spectrum- one arts the other sciences.

I was unsure before we married and now I am still unsure- we just can't share my interests or me his.

It may well matter to you- take it seriously, as I am considering my whole future due to feeling "not on the same wavelength".

[tryingherbest]

Sparklet now what you're saying actually resonates with me - NOW. Particularly on his upbringing which was unfortunate but he seems to hide behind it.

I had in some ways an unusual and fun upbrining BUT it was awful too as my parents had a horrible marriage and as an only child. HOWEVER, I decided that I as soon as I was old enough I'd take control over my life as far as I could and I refuse to be a slave to the negative parts of my upbrining (and boy there was some bad shit).

And - just to bring the point home - TONIGHT - I've had a shit day travel problem to and from work and a horrible day with the boss - I get home and he's telling me how shit he thinks graduates are.

Ta - love - my education got us our mortage on our property - however humble our home is.

What the hell can you say to that level of bitterness?

I'm sure there are many relationships that are ok with the differences - even thrive on them - mine doesn't and from what you're saying - yours won't.

[tryingherbest]

Oh got sparklet and I've just had this thing where dh was going off on something in the news - off at a tangent and in my attempts to calm him down just put in a few facts I knew from an industry I used to work in to give another perspective - well he just told me to shut up and that he couldn't have a proper conversation with me and was ranting and raving.

I wasn't trying to lord it over him. Some of the stuff was from an article I'd read in the papers fgs. He can tell me lots about hings I don't know about - I'm pleased to get his factual knowledge or his experiences. But, hey ho, not the other way round mate.

[sparklet]

Tryingherbest, I do hope you get something from your relationship - are you thinking it might not work out? My bf wants us to live together/get married some time in the future but that's the last thing on my mind right now. We had a very long chat on the phone last night (it's an LDR to complicate matters) and the last half hour was taken up with him complaining about how his ex-wife controls him. And that's because he allows her too (the not being able to stand up to anyone thing).

They split up 14 years ago FGS! They're in eachother's lives (too much I think) for their kids but one's at uni and the other's 18 so I think it's quite unhealthy. I'm friendly with my ex for the sake of DD but we rub along fine with no grudges. Taking it one day at a time and not making any plans and thanks to all for helping me think things through.

[Miggsie]

My well educated friend has always picked men who are not as educated, and also she is very driven and attracts men who are not, and sort of want looking after and organising. She has done this 3 times and has 3 divorces to show for it.
she just "outruns" them in the end and they end up resenting her driven, achieving nature and she gets tired of their lack of dynamism and their reliance on her...

I would say the personality type is way more important than the education bit, but some uneducated men really do resent educated women.
Also, can you mix with each other's friends?
That can be a real issue too.

[sparklet]

The friends thing could be a problem actually. The other day I cringed inwardly when he told a really crap joke to my best friend and her husband. Managed to laugh it off but I'm not very good at hiding things!

[quinne]

As an another poster said its not a good idea to have to filter out big words when speaking to your husband because you can't relax when you are constantly having to resort to a mental thesaurus when chatting with him.

The disparity in how you manage money would be an issue for me too. A boyfriend can do what he likes with his own money but I wouldn't want to be financially tied to someone who was so different in this way.

I don't think you are a snob, just someone who wants to know if the differences are going to be significant or not.

[Madmentalbint]

It doesn't sound like you're a good match but I don't think it's down to class - it's down to your personalities.

My friend wont consider dating men that aren't well educated business types - she's been single and lonely for years. At least you gave this chap a chance.

[sparklet]

That has to be the best username ever, madmentalbint! Definitely wouldn't marry him
and it would be nice not to have to use my mental thesaurus any more quinne! I think he could be nice as a boyfriend I see regularly but not that frequently (and that's all that's possible right now because he lives 4 hours away) and I'll just see how it goes.

[cory]

Like madmentalbint, it's about personalities. I married a man from a different country, different educational background, different language, different religious views (me Christian, him atheist)- it's worked fine. But that is because we are each relaxed about our differences and have no value system attached to them.

I recognise that his family's way of living (partying, drinking, having fun, socialising) is another way which in its way is equally valid to my family's (putting money and effort into education, living for the arts, pushing yourself for the love of the work). He does not feel threatened by the fact that our family has different priorities.

If you can find a man who accepts your differences- and whose differences you can accept, then fine. If not, carry on looking.

[Charita]

You are not a snob, just an honest person.
If he is not able to handle money and you are financially secure, just end the relationship. You can't change his spending habits and it takes money to survive. Plus, you mentioned that he has a "chip on his shoulder." Believe me, it will become more prominent over time.
If you are questioning your relationship, you are probably looking for a way out. Don't stay for fear of being single. Alone does not = lonely.
I have a similar situation w/my daughter. She is a 18/yr college sophomore at NYU (she graduated hs @ 16), and for a year has been dating a waiter who dropped out of high school 2 yrs. ago. He is a pleasant, hard working guy who handles his finances & is always welcomed him in our home.
I've noticed that he has become increasingly jealous & doesn't want her enjoying a college party, or friends, unless he is with her. He gets irate about her facebook & takes her cell phone!
Yes, he's promised her that he'll take his GED (she bought him the study guides) and enroll in a course or 2. Well, he hasn't done anything in a year. The other night, he was saying that he doesn't like to read books!
My daughter's involved w/community svc volunteer work. Last week, she brought her b/f to feed the homeless. While there, an older woman, who is a regular, asked him what he does 4 a living. She told him to do something more, while he is young, b/c life will go fast & it will be hard. She made him promise her. He thought it was funny!!
I told my daughter that I feel that she has too much on her plate @ this time, & shouldn't try to offer help to someone who doesn't want to change. She is a beautiful girl who has also done some modeling for Speedo, Clinique & VS. I think (& hope) that it is her youth & that she'll feel differently in a year.
Good luck w/your situation. Remember, you can be in a relationship for 50 yrs and be unhappy. Quality does not = quantity.

[Portofino]

The "chip on the shoulder" thing and the fact he tries to dum you down would worry me more than his lesser education.

My Ex-P was a plumber. There was a big gap between his education and mine. That was never an issue. He was proud of me for being "clever". He was really good at his job and loved it. He also had lots of interests and we had many joint friends and got on really well.

Where it all came apart - our differing expectations. I was doing really well at work, and started climbing the ladder a bit. I had do further study and bring work home/work extra hours etc. For someone, who was paid by the hour/job, it was really difficult to understand why I did this without earning extra money.

Little comments were made about how my employers were taking the p**s, how I was "ruining" things by working hard when they were bound to just get rid me as soon as it suited them (?). Then his family started on me. I'd always loved them, but not a family gathering could go by without something rude being said about my job.

It dawned on me that they were all waiting for that point when I was going to pack it all in and just concentrate on having babies. After that, it was pretty much over. I was happy for Ex-P to be himself and never wanted him to change. I loved him for exactly who he was (I still miss him now actually, 10 years on)

But I started to feel that I wasn't going to be allowed to be myself and that if I wanted to work on my career, I wasn't going to get any support at home. And that I couldn't cope with.

[fruitbeard]

Would agree with everyone else who's saying don't ignore your instincts.

My mum is not more intelligent than my dad but better educated, bookish, middle class. Dad left school at 14 (in South Africa) without much more than a basic education, was apprenticed to an electrician and has worked in various manual jobs ever since. He's incredibly clever with his hands and could be very artistic if he didn't think it was all a lot of 'snobby nonsense'. He's very much a working men's club bloke and proud of it - in fact, he's become an inverse snob as the years have gone by.

He is terminally insecure about his lack of knowledge/education, resents my mother reading - during the (frequent) rows they had when we were growing up the thing he constantly flung at her was 'you're only good for books, nothing real' and as we got older and started not wanting to sit down in front of the telly all night it became 'you're just like your mother, only good for books'.

The only reason they're still together is their catholicism and they've had a miserable marriage, constantly sniping at each other, as my mother (to her credit in some respects) refuses to dumb down, which aggravates him horribly. She too gets accused of making him look stupid, when all she's done is be herself.

Listen to your doubts!

[Matthew123]

That's incorrect. Many people like myself borrowed the money from the Government. University is tuff. You got your major and electives in a variety of other disciplines. I think if you can get a degree, your smart and more marketable in a variety of fields. I saw many students put the books down/ drop out because they couldn't write a simple cohesive paper. Being a male, I think it would be a venture to date an uneducated woman. The sex would still probably be great but then comes the other side of the relationship , communication. How can an educated person spend the rest of his or her life talking to a dumb ass and trying to raise an intelligent chid? Daddy, Mommy said your wrong , she said school isn't important .

[ElectricalBanana]

I am from an upper middle class family with a university education.

My husband is a lad from a rough council estate with no qualifications and is a long haired biker. My parents worship him (as so do I). He says I am his bit of posh.... I say he is the love of my life!

[ADishBestEatenCold]

"The other day I cringed inwardly when he told a really crap joke to my best friend and her husband."

That says more to me about your insecurities, than it does about his.

[singleandfabulous]

OP, I recently ended a three year relationship with someone like your dp. He was handsome, kind, honest and lovely but the differences just became more and more apparent. He didnt feel 'good enough' to join me at a formal dinner and felt 'uncomfortable' about going to the theatre so didnt. Drinks with my boss were 'excruciating' for him (my words not his). In turn, I felt uncomfortable in his local pub and really out of place with his family. I tried not to judge him when he licked his knife but in the end I became resentful that my life had been reduced to going to the pub on Friday night with his mates and watching 'man' telly on Saturday night.
The problem is that most women still take on the cultural life of the male partner, so you are in effect 'dumbing down' your life to be with him. While the honeymoon period is going strong, you'll push the differences aside but after a few years you will resent having sacrificed so much of yourself for so little in return. Tastes, lifestyles and habits are very important in a long term relationship