Educated woman/uneducated man - can it work?

[sparklet]

I'm divorced with a DD of 10 and have been with my current BF for coming up to a year. He treats me really well, is gentle and kind, we share some interests and he's the most wonderful lover I've ever had. We've talked about marriage and he's said he wants to spend the rest of his life with me, but I'm in no hurry as I want to get to know him really well first.

There's one issue in particular I want to be comfortable with and please don't think I'm a snob but I can't ignore certain signs. I'm highly educated middle-class, he's skilled working-class (a carpenter) and simply not as knowledgeable/cultured as I am through no fault of his own. We do have lovely talks about quite deep things but I have to be careful not to use long words and can't really share my love of music and literature with him. His manners are a bit suspect sometimes too! He has a bit of a chip on his shoulder and I have to be careful not to come across as too assertive or he gets upset. Also I'm finacially secure and although he's generous to a fault, he's not good with money and has very little to show for many years of hard work and earning decent money. I can't see problems arising as long as we just continue to date but I'm nervous about living together/marriage.

[MrsMattie]

coolbeans - interesting what you say about 'deal breakers'. My DH rarely reads and thinks a lot of what I like to read (I am a total bookworm) is 'a load of shite'. I don't take offence in the slightest . However, an ex of mine once asked 'Why do you sit around reading all the time? It's not going to make you any money, and that's the most important thing in life'. I knew it was over at that precise moment. Different planets!

[treedelivery]

Had to ROFL at twinsetandpearls as I so totally relate to your last statement. Good luck with the counselling.

Pan - I had a brief interlude with an army officer who was soooo from a different world to me. We didn't have the 'lurve' thing going on [more the bed thing] but had we had then that would have been one tricky relationship. His very driveway made me want to run away screaming for a cab back to sububia, it was all just so posh. I felt an inch high. Clearly not a healthy relationship for me at that time.
In fact the love thing could never have happened, uber poshness aside his right wing hardcore army landed gentry type life was utterly wrong for me. God could I have managed the lifestyle though!

[Metatron]

I don't think it has anything to do with your differences tbh. I think it is because he is a prick about them.

He sounds like he makes you feel at fault for knowing things he doesn't whether that be words, facts, social graces etc. This is not a class issue, it is a personality one.

[mygreatauntgriselda]

Sparklet I think the crux of it is not so much his education, but whether you have enough in common and whether you are both intellectually [sp? LOL] similar and whether youare adaptable.

I guess that you would both need to be adaptable in order to fit in with each others friends and the issue would be whether you could both accept that over a long period of time.

My DH grew up in an apartheid country where he was not allowed to go to Uni etc. I come from a family of working class migrants who "became" middle class through sheer hard work (i.e. my Dad worked night and day to enable us to move to a decent place to live) - we've been married nearly 20 years. Despite our obvious cultural, racial and educational back grounds, we both fit in with each others friends etc and adapt when neccessary and we share the same politics which I think is far more important than whether we share the same taste in music etc. In fact he detests some of my music!

Yur guy sounds lovely BTW

[treedelivery]

Adaptability. So important. No one in a long term relationship can stay the same. I believe we sign up for that in a realtionship. Dh may change and develop and may go through stages I love or hate. I hope I can tag along if he wants me too.

Thats why I have such a problem with the idea of 'The One'. The one what? The one good mood I have in a week, where we belly laugh together? I can't be like that all the time for 50 years. Dh is not 'The One' he is a changing growing ebbing and flowing human. I respect that and have to let him do his thing, and he mine.

[minxofmancunia]

my best friend is leaving her partner today for this very reason, they are poles apart intellect and values wise. She's bored out of her mind and completely understimulated mentally, she loves him becuaes he's nice and kind but she no longer fancies him. you're not a snob you're realistic, she's been with him 8 years and now she's lost weight and her self-esteem has shot up she's had an epiphany.

I knew this was coming, I've had 2 similar liaisons myself where I've ended up leaving because of these types of differences. It's not snobbery, it's life and I'm afriad eventually you may end up tearing your hair out because you're so far apart. Don't make the mistake she did and have a mortgage cats (although not dcs thankfully) etc. to fight about.

[Astarte]

I don't think his 'class', job or education has anything to do with it. If you're compatible you'll last because there will always be things in common intellectually.

I don't think you are being a snob and I for one would run a mile at an unread man, sexy or not.
My Dh is more well read than me I would say (on balance, he probably has a bit more time ) but we each have specialist areas of knowledge which the other admires.

I would go for brains over brawn anyday regardless of eduction etc.

Perhaps he's a bit intimidated by your confidence in your ability to hold your own. If that's the case he's going to feel inferior and it will likely be a problem.
Some things like etiquette can be learned easily, tastes can change as you/he are introduced to new experiences, but if the desire to read, expand intellectual capacity is not there, then there isn't much you can do about that.

[Astarte]

I would also consider the impression that the situation would leave on your Dd were you to start dumbing down to please him.
There are more than enough examples of women in society dumbing down to appease men, live an easy life.
There are few where women stand very proud of who they are, autonomous and unintimidated by either their sexuality intellect or abilities imho.

[Astarte]

No I don't mean to infer he is an idiot, obv I don't know him.

I do have a couple of long-standing friends who have relationships similar to this and it's very saddening.

They were (still are) very smart women but through marrying either for money or social status they have become a little 'simple'.
Those women still have that capacity to debate and discourse but they don't do it, well, not in public.
They keep the peace.

I despair at the message it sends to their Dd's.

[bloss]

Message withdrawn

[sparklet]

Thank you, a lot of food for thought here and especially interested in comments from those in a similar situation. I'm beginning to think the main issue is that he may possibly feel threatened by me and has said on several occasions that he feels he has nothing to offer me. One of his first remarks when we got together was that he couldn't believe that "such a special woman would want to be with me". I was very touched but perhaps it should have made me think.

I'm concerned that I might get into the position of feeling that I have to bolster him and pussyfoot and lose respect because he can't stand up to me. He is totally different to my ex though, who was domineering and arrogant and regarded many others (including myself) as inferior. I do value him very much and I know we make eachother happy so will just see how it goes for now.

[treedelivery]

My dh used to say things like that sparklet. I used to say equally nice things back [because while it is a shamne he feels like that it is essentially well intentioned]. So my dh would hear, 'your balanced and calm, I want to run about and change the world for everyone, you want to stay here and make my world better and that's amazing'

Sounds very squishy but true! As he became more secure in the relationship and aware that I wasn't judging him or looking higher he grew into himself more and became satisfied with his role in our little world. We both see we are different types but not better or worse.

He's been made redundant suddenly with no warning. Thank God we had worked through this naturally previously, or I think the challenge to his masculinity would tear a rent in us if he felt it affected him in my eyes.

[Pheebe]

I haven't read through the whole thread as I'm sure everyones experience is different. Here's mine.

I have a genetics phd in and am a science writer by trade, well read I suppose and am currently doing an OU degree in humanities. DH is mildy dyslexic (never diagnosed) barely scraped through school, almost never reads a book or anything much unless he has too. Wouldn't know 'literature' is it lept up an bit him. He's an electrician and extremely good at his job and understands all that technical stuff no problem. His skills, of which he has many (he is incredible with angles and building work) are very much physical as in worked out in his head and not from a text book. Not sure you could get much further apart from an educational perspective.

I can honestly say it has never ever made one jot of difference to us. We've been together 10 years and have 2 gorgeous DSs. He grounds me in a way no one else could and has knocked the puffed up self importance right out of me. I see the world in a totally different way these days and am a better person for it. What have I done for DH? Well, he can ask me how to spell big words, what certain words mean, we do the paper work together. I have never judged him or ever thought of him as somehow 'inferior' to me, even secretly and I think thats the key. It simpy doesn't matter to me so it doesn't matter to us as a couple.

[mamhaf]

I haven't read all the posts either, but I'm in a similar situation and sometimes it makes a difference, most of the time it doesn't.

I have a degree and a well-paid job. Dh left school at 14 but started his own business. He's now in a management position but earns about half my income.

His parents weren't educationally aspirational, mine were (although mine were working class, they supported me totally in wanting to have a good education and employment).

Since we've been together - 25 years - he's read only a handful of books.

Sometimes it does make a difference - his table manners can annoy me - but he has adjusted a bit - and it's frustrating if I want to watch something cultural on tv but he's not interested (although he does now enjoy classical music).

But there are lots of other shared interests - the things that brought us together.

One thing I do find difficult at the moment through is that I'm the only one who can help the dds to any great extent with their homework, which does put extra pressure on.

So, OP, yes, it can work, but as with any relationship you need to decide if the negatives outweight the positives and if the things which irritate you mildly now will be unliveable-with if you stay together.

[tryingherbest]

Well, looking at the threads and following on from the last post I wonder whether it's do with education or more to do with your personal culture and aspirations. There are those that think you're a snob, think that educationaol differences don't matter and some that think that problems can be overcome.

My story is possibly one you're worried about. My dh was the most wonderful person. I came from a background almost opposite to his - although not particularly rich - we're from all over the world and lots of languages and interest holiday's etc. DH - opposite and no opportunities, no books, no music etc. My view was so what as he's a lovely bloke.

Fast forward 16 years on and one dc and the differences are glaring now - I've pretty much given up on my career - he was never supportive -and I've supported his - our parenting styles are so different - he believes in buying everything ds wants to stop tantrums- I don't beleive in that. Ds takes NO interested in ds education or mine.

I can't talk about my childhood as dh had no tv, no family, no toys. And if I ever mention anything I ever had (and I didn't have THAT much) there's a silence from him. My family have also learnt never to talk about my upbrining.

It offends me that I can't draw from my experiences. I have to instead draw from his which, through no fault of his his own, is very negative. And I have his whole family who have the same view and it causes nothing but trouble.

Perhaps I am a snob - but I never expected exptected my dh to be like me as I respect the person he his - but he clearly doesn't respect the person I am.

You might be a snob - who knows - but not in this context. If you have nothing in common it's best to be respectful to your feelings and his and draw the line there.

[sparklet]

Tryingherbest, your story interests me greatly because we have such similarities. He talks about his childhood/young adulthood endlessly - what he didn't have, how his father bullied him, how crap school was and like you, I feel it's totally inappropriate for me to say how secure I felt as a child and what school did for me etc. He doesn't seem that interested in my past experiences so I never really talk about them and if I did, he wouldn't be able to relate to them anyway. So I'm glad you can see where I'm coming from.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I realise what a hold his past has over him, as if he's constantly trying to come to terms with it. And that includes his failed marriage (divorced twelve years ago but still bears his ex a grudge) and the fact that he could have been more successful, like most of his mates. I feel sad for him in a way and just wish he could put it all behind him.

[solidgoldsoddingjanuaryagain]

Sparklet, what you've got to address with this man is whether or not he is prepared to accept that you are a human being, not just a 'woman'. You said he doesn't like you to assert yourself - now that would be a red flat if you were a 16-year-old burger flipper and he was a company director. When one partner in a relationship thinks that he/she is fundamentally 'better' than the other partner, and a much better 'catch' than the other partner should have expected, then the relationship is doomed. And this is not having a pop at you for thinking that you are better educated than your parnter (which may well be a fact). It's about, in general, if you are one of those people who wants a longterm couple relationship, you're only going to have a happy one if you accept that the other person has a right to be him/herself and that's why you love him/her.

[smugaboo]

Gosh Pheebe, you sound quite a bit like me. I am a university lecturer (law) and I am currently doing a Phd. My husband is a gasfitter with O levels. With have 2 DDs.

My Dh is one of the smartest people I know. I know damned well he would out perform me on an IQ test if we ever took one.

But there were never any red flags - but maybe that was because I was in my 20s and no real expectations/criteria of a relationship. 10 years later we are happy and he is truly my best friend.

Follow your gut, I say.

[sparklet]

solidgold, I don't think I'm better than him, he has a lot to offer me but I'd like him to be able to accept me for who I am. And I'd love him to be able to stand up to me a bit more so maybe that's a big part of it too.

[Gettingagrip]

-He talks about his childhood/young adulthood endlessly

• what he didn't have

-how his father bullied him
-how crap school was
-I feel it's totally inappropriate for me to say how secure I felt as a child and what school did for me etc.
-He doesn't seem that interested in my past experiences so I never really talk about them and if I did, he wouldn't be able to relate to them anyway.

-I realise what a hold his past has over him, as if he's constantly trying to come to terms with it.

-And that includes his failed marriage -divorced twelve years ago but still bears his ex a grudge

-the fact that he could have been more successful, like most of his mates.

-I feel sad for him in a way and just wish he could put it all behind him.

With the greatest respect, I don't think this has anything to do with your education, as his 'lack' of education.

Breaking down your last post into bullet points as above....

Bears his ex a grudge years later. Bears his school a grudge, his father, everyone is to blame but him.

Many many people had a poor upbringing, poor schools, and so on. The point about becoming an adult is that you do something about this, not resent others who you perceive to have had 'advantages'.

The pity hook is also a huge red flag.

Sorry if I am miles off the mark.

x

[Gettingagrip]

sorry should have been 'or' his 'lack' of education.

dodgy keyboard, can't afford a new one, despite my degree and post graduate qualifications and 30 years experience!!!!

Everyone has barriers to success....but we don't use them as a weapon.

xxx

[cory]

Agree with Gettingagrip and others who have said the problem is not his lack of education but the chip on his shoulder. Have seen a similar relationship close at hand- though there it was the other way: the woman had the chip and was constantly trying to stop her partner from any interests that made him seem superior, always nagging him, trying to make him embarrassed about his education/middle-class background etc. The relationship muddled on for years and finally came to a very messy halt.

I would have no problem marrying someone who was less educated than me. But I would run many miles rather than marry somebody who felt sorry for themselves.