Need opinions on behaviour of soon-to-be ex friend.

[minouminou]

Hi, guys. Been wrestling with this for a while, as friend's behaviour and attitudes have been increasingly hard to tolerate, and this particular incident (which actually happened 18 months ago but has only recently come to light) is, for various reasons, a linchpin in my decision to terminate the friendship.
it was DS' naming do last July, and we'd chosen two couples to be his "odd-parents" - my oldest chum from my teens and his partner Susan (not real name), and a gay couple, who shall be known as A&J.
Now, both couples are from Manchester, although A&J are from DP's "side" as it were.
Several months before the do, I'd talked loosely and with no firm plans to local friend about her becoming a guardian to DS, as i felt at the time, as she has a DS of a similar age, both of us are quite academic etc etc it'd be a good idea.
Nothing formal was ever arranged, and the matter dropped, really, with life getting in the way, as it were, without a definite yes from friend, and no more action from DP and I.
Anyway, naming do - friend makes a beeline for Susan and starts on with this diatribe about how "You DO know that if anything happens to (minouminou and DP) it'll be me who has DS, don't you? Yes, that's right, we feel we have similar values, and with me being a (teaches in uber-posh expensive private school round here) MM feels I can give DS the kind of life he'd have if she and her DP were still alive".
Now, Susan is from a very dysfunctional family, and didn't really finish school, but she's not thick, values education and ambition, and hasn't done too badly for herself at all, plus, more importantly, she's a real generous soul.
She was really upset by this, but didn't say anything until DS' birthday party last oct, when "friend" played a blinder.
She pulled her up (incorrectly, I might add) on the pronunciation of DS' name, picked on her grammar, told her off for looking as if she was about to spark up a cigarette (she wasn't, she was fiddling with her rollie tin), and said the world's most patronising thing ever when Susan and her partner did decamp for a shifty fag round the back.....
"Ooooh, having a sneaky fag, eh? We've all got our vices, haven't we? Mine's (subject she teaches - it's one of the arts), I just love it".
Poor Susan had to keep removing herself from the situation before she lost her rag and ruined the day, and i only really found out about this after the party had ended.
However, I was subject to some grief from her too - snipey little digs about just about everything, DP came in for some about his cutting of DS' cake, there was a sotto voce grumble about his use of the word "serviette" which went (can't be 100% sure, as it was more to herself than to anyone else) "Well, I suppose some people DO say that, don't they?".
Background - she's an old friend from university (17 years' standing), and we've lived in her home city for 11 years now, Susan and partner are from near manchester, I've been friends with him for over 20 years, A&J are family chums from way back when - we see each other as relatives, really.
"Friend didn't say anything about the guardianship to A&J, and actually, hasn't mentioned it to me since it was first touted, getting on for 2 years ago.
There's lots more, really, but this is the crowning incident - just after opinions and insights.
Thanks in advance, guys.

Ah, bless your honesty minou. She had it coming, didn't she? She sounds jealous and repeating how many friends she has is childish and embarassing. I wouldn't really care about the snobbery and manners are manners, but let people be. It's not on to bully Susan and make her feel small. TBH, your ex friend sounds really cold and your DS would learn the difference between serviette and napkin from her but no cuddles and a relaxing atmosphere. Good for standing up to her. I hate bullies.

Her last comment is just a desperate swipe at you to hurt you like you have hurt her. Ignore it & be the bigger person.

Sorry how old are you both - 15? For "quite academic" people you come off as a pair of dumkopfs. She's gone now, you "kinda" said what you had to say to her and you never have to see her again - why not just leave it at that instead of looking for affirmation on here.

well done for standing up to her. hers was a cheap response. quite right to let it go.

Oh god...where do I start. This is gonna be a long one, so I'll try and keep it as concise as poss.
This has been going on for ages now.
This woman just will not go away.
A few days after DD was born in April last year, Susan (the manchester friend in the equation), told me that ex-friend had emailed her partner that day and gone on and on about how I'd had a breakdown and (effectively) wasn't fit to be looking after DS and DD.
She was, apparently, very worried about DP and the DCs, as I'd obviously lost my marbles during the pregnancy, and she felt really sorry for DP, as he'd bear the brunt of it.
She also said she'd spoken to people at DS' nursery about it (I don't know who, but I found out it wasn't staff), and has talked to other people who live around our way about my tendency to "shun" people (there are some people I don't have much time for,but i wouldn't say I shun them, i just do the northern thing of pretending they're not there unless they speak to me directly, in which case I'm polite).
This left me reeling, and I was very worried about SS involvement, as she's reported people to SS and what-have-you before if she thinks she needs to...always out of concern.
Then, a few weeks later, DP got this text (yes, all in one message! I've edited it a bit, as she uses a lot of txtspk):
Happy birthday (to my DP). You must be so busy but thrilled with your newly-enlarged family. Really sorry that (Minou's) decision to change from trusting me with (my DS) when swimming and saying she'd want me to bring him up if anything happened to you two to "I can't be your friend" seems to mean (her DS) and I shouldn't be able to see you, (my DS) and baby.
I understand she's your partner.
I've already said goodbye to (Minou) on IM and your birthday seems to be a good time to do the same - new age new start.
(My DS) is a lovely child and you're a top bloke so it bodes well for the baby.
Everything is falling into place for me, best wishes, (Ex-friend).
I was steaming, DP didn't really understand the bit about "bodes well" meaning me being bad for the children, but that's what she meant.
Anyway, a few days after THIS, I'm BF-ing DD (now 4 weeks old) in a local cafe, she comes in for a napkin, sees me, offers congratulations, I smile and say thanks. On her way out, i get "Hope you make it up north soon. BYE MINOUMINOU!" and she slams the cafe door about 2 feet away from DD's head.
DP just thinks she'll get fed up and that I should ignore it, at this point....he'd gone to the park with DS, so I was there on my own.
Now, since last april, she's made repeated attempts to force interaction on me, usually in front of someone, and I really think she's trying to show me up. She keeps talking to DS, and I let it go, because I'm not going to rise to her provocation.
Unfortunately, though, I did lose my temper when DD was 7 weeks old, as she barrelled up to the pram after pointedly ignoring me, demanding to see her (she was asleep in a P&T cocoon). I said "I'm afraid you can't"
"Why, is she asleep, I'll wait then(or something similar, as I talked over her to say i was going home)."
As I was leaving, I heard her saying to her mum, in an airy tone "Oh, I have NO idea....." (ie "what's wrong).
She must have realised that I had got wind of her saying I'd lost the plot, so this tipped me over and I shouted "Do you want to know? I'm quite happy to have it out here"
Sorry, guys, this is long, and it seems to incredibly petty, but she's STILL talking to DS whenever she sees him, and launches herself at DP (he describes it as verbal rape), all the while looking for my reaction.
Oh god, there's loads more, including finding out that she used to criticise DP and I horribly, all the time, and was utterly scathing about the 2nd pregnancy, as we have a 2-bed flat (on the market - a steal if you're interested!); she's said to people that DS gets a suspicious number of colds (yeah, suspiciously low, as backed up by nursery), that having his hair long is abusive....and this is before I sacked her off.
God, this is such a muddle, as I'm getting a bit upset writing it.
She just won't go away, I feel she thinks she has some right to be in our lives. DP is terrified of confrontation, so says hi and bye when she talks to him, but he'd rather she just left us alone, and is annoyed by her judgements and criticism.
I saw my HV, and the nursery manager about this last April, as I was so worried about anything happening, neither had any concerns whatsoever.
I'm writing all this because it's coming up for a year, and she's still bugging me. I overheard her saying to her mum a couple of months ago "She's obviously not coping", shortly after talking to DP...she was looking at me...although I can't guarantee she was referring to me.
Background: her DS goes to the school around the corner from us, and so we often cross paths. I blank her, and never say to DS (3) or DP to come away, I simply pretend she's not there.
If you've made it this far, thank you so much for reading it all...it's mammoth.

Oh, further background: I had awful hyperemesis with DD (and DS, too, for that matter), and often did wander around looking blank, thanks to the anti-emetics/nausea/knackeredness of it all), but she seems to have chosen to forget this in her rantings about my pregnancy psychosis.

What a nutbar!

To be honest, I think you're all giving this woman far too much space in your heads. She would be over the MOON to find out you were giving her this much thought! If it was me, I wouldn't ignore her - I'd be soooooo polite and warm when she met me in the street, just like I would if I met my neighbour or any other acquaintance. If she says something snipey, just pretend you never heard it, flash a dazzling smile and walk on. Never badmouth her to anyone and never invite her anywhere or initiate any kind of contact.

It'll drive her batty when she realises that not only is she not getting a rise out of you, but you're ALWAYS in a good mood!

I hope she gets bored soon!

thanks.
This is just what DP says, too. Unfortunately, she's kind of everywhere I need to be, IYSWIM, and will not give up, so having to steel myself against her presence is a daily issue. Even worse, if we don't move before next year, DS will be at the school too, and she really will mess with things for me and him - I've seen her in operation before, but was too gormless to think she'd ever do it to me.
Thing is, I've never had to do this before...usually I have things out there and then, but because I feel tarred with the mad-brush, anything I say will be taken and pathologised to the nth degree....again, because I've seen her do this with others.

at this!! More later, must dash but just wanted to say I really sympathize.

Oh, and if I smile at her, she'll assume we're friends again, and will become even more persistent.

Thanks, Jacksmama.

If you do end up staying (and I hope you sell your flat soon) I would be making an appointment to see the head teacher as soon as it is clear that ds will be going to the same school - and be quite frank about what she is likely to say about you. I would also find out whether there are any children in her dc's year with younger siblings going into reception and when you get on speaking terms with them it would be interesting to hear if she had been spreading the same rumours as she had been previously.

OOOh - and I wonder whether you can suggest in someway that she is obsessively interested in you and your family....

Smile sweetly next time she accosts you in public and say "X, we've spoken about this before, and I'm very sorry to say that if you don't leave me alone I shall have to consider a restraining order, as your behavior is bordering on harassment."

Good idea Coldtits

If you and DH don't do confrontation why don't you jointly write to her explaining in very clear terms that her attention and behaviour is unwanted and what you want to happen - i.e. for her to leave your family alone and cease to discuss you with others. Her behaviour verges on stalking and I can imagine I would feel very oppressed in your position. Really hope she backs off completely as you have done nothing to deserve this and have tried to behave in a mature fashion throughout.

Look, I don't in any way condone her behaviour, but she is behaving the way someone would if they are hurt and confused.

Often people who behave in a condesending or snobby way do it because they are actually quite insecure with low self esteem. She was probably delighted to be asked to be a guardian and felt you were a really true friend (when perhaps she doesn't have that many friends herself?).

From her point of view your abrupt ending of the friendship came out of nowhere. (She has no idea what you feel about the way she spoke to Susan etc). From her point of view one minute you were asking her to be ds's guardian and the next you were telling her you couldn't be her friend. From her point of view this could seem a little 'unhinged'. A very natural reaction on her part is continuing to over compensate by being extra friendly to your dp and ds to demonstrate what a lovely friendly person she is and how irrational you are.

I'd say leave it well alone. Don't tell her any reasons why you cut contact - it will be fuel to her fire. Just forget her and when she makes unwelcome appearances view it with sympathy as the needy behaviour of a person you've had to hurt.

I completely agree with Slambang. There's a startling lack of compassion/sympathy/humanity here! Why do you have to cut her when she crosses paths with you? What is she doing that hurts you so much? Having a bruised ego and handling it badly don't count as 'harassment' in my book.

Slambang, thanks for your input, but I really, literally, physically couldn't get a word in edgeways when I told her - I was quite prepared to tell her my reasons, but she just kept talking, and tbh i was just glad i'd told her and was able to get away without a row.
She has made no attempt to find out the reasons - there was no "why?" which would have been my 1st reaction.
It'sgraceagain, I agree totally that I made a real botch job of the whole thing, but in my original OP, in Jan 2009, i said that I was worried about her reaction.
Also, what she's done which means I have to cut her out is to have bad-mouthed us solidly for a long long time (found out recently), been openly critical about just about everything too, and - over the past few years, insulted my background and accent, especially in front of her friends.
This before, during and after DP and I went to a lot of effort to help her out after her husband left her -so much so that she said we were her main source of support, and she could never repay us (not that we expected anything, but rather didn't expect to be rubbished behind our backs).

It's nice of you to take trouble over your reply, thanks, minou. She does sound very irritating and I have had 'friends' like this! It's quite a shock when you find out about the badmouthing, etc. It does seem to come from a very shaky sense of self & feelings of inferiority - those who feel superior don't need to go on about it all the time!

I'm sure she had rehearsed the speech you heard in the coffee shop - she must have been nervous so it all came spilling out; it probably sounded OK in front of her bathroom mirror! This, and few of the things you've said like you & DP being her main source of support, suggests she feels strongly about you and doesn't know how to handle your rejection. She probably doesn't have many friends - which may well be her own fault, but she isn't able to realise that. All of which is meant to say ... nobody wants somebody like this in their close circle of friends. But, IF you can find a way to be civil to her, without being best friends, you'll probably be doing a simple kindness. And can polish up your halo a little more

It was sickening, It'sgrace, really. But since I ended the friendship, people came out of the woodwork and filled me in on a few things, and I also got a few more accounts similar to the one Susan gave me.
I can't be civil to her - I have no halo to polish! I'm one of these who says nothing or says what she really thinks, and quite frankly, I just want the whole thing to go away.
It's funny about her having few friends.....quite a few people have abruptly cut her out over the years, and it was always because they were ill in one way or another, apparently.

i agree with slambang.

but i also have to say that i think you're a little too scared of her. she doesn't have nearly as much power to influence people as you give her credit for. if someone badmouths someone to me, i'm more wary of THEM than the person their badmouthing. this all is reflecting very badly on her.

you have to realize that what she does is no reflection on you. you behave honourably and you have nothing to worry about.

she seems totally unaware and out of her depth.

Thanks, Warthog. What I'm scared of, or worried about, is her utter persistence. Most people would have just thought "Ah well, balls to her, then, silly cow" and written me off by now.
However, going off previous form, she just won't do this, and part of me worries about losing my temper in public again, as people would start to believe her.

But if somebody persistently badmouthed somebody at the school gates and all of my experience of them did not bear that out, I would just think that they were a bit demented.

I think that to go from, will you be a replacement for me if I die, to disliking them so much you completely dump them in a fairly short space of time is a bit of an extreme flip-flop - I would be reeling if that was me. Have you tried writing to her to say that you are so sorry for hurting her feelings and that you handled it badly at the time & can you at least agree to be polite to each other?

Asking her to be a guardian was in early 2007, and I didn't start to get really hacked off with her until later that year.
re the guardian issue, she sort of fudged any further talk about it, and made it obvious she wasn't really up for it (or so it seemed), so I let the issue drop.
All this while, remember, she's been berating us to people - she must have some inkling about why I dumped her.

Oh, and re writing to her - again, any contact on my part would just fan the flames.
I really feel stuck in this, but everyone's made such good comments and provided insight, so thanks, guys.