Is anyone still up? I don't want to leave him, I want him to leave me.

[Carla]

Where do I stand? Can I order him out? I own the house outright, he pays the bills.

DD2 has been complaining for the last 1/12 hours of an itch fanny. H heard her calling out while he was eating an ice cram and said 'Carla, one of the children's crying'. I went up, put some Valeline on it. He comes up, with 'Daddy's special cream'. FFs, it was Nivea! Would you want something full of perfume like that on something that at the time was so sensitive and itchy?

dd2 carried on crying. I did what she likes best - stroked her tummy. At which point he grabbed her out of our bed (and I mean ' grabbed), went to take her into dd1'w room and said 'that's the last thing she wants'. So now he's managed to wake up the whole house. What right does he bloody well have to take my daughter from me when I'm trying to comfort her?

Carla, I think if his only response to a suggestion of separation is to threaten and frighten you, that speaks for itself. He doesn't love you, he's not interested in trying to repair the relationship and frankly a man who doesn't attempt to have a good relationship with the mother of his children is NOT a good father. A good father promotes harmony in the home in which his children are brought up, not conflict. Don't worry about the good father thing - he will probably be a better one when he no longer lives with you.

I think it was very good advice from whoever said she was 26 and looked at her future and being 36 and having these same rows. That's exactly what it was like with me - I sat at the table one day trying to dissect why xp had been drunk the day before, when I suddenly had a moment of whatever the opposite of deja vue is - I saw myself 5 years down the line, 5 years older, 5 years tireder, 5 years sadder, having exactly the same conversation.

If that's what you're seeing, it's time to get out. You're in a very strong position - don't be scared.

My wife went through this agony of wanting to leave but not understanding how it could be done with her ex-h.

Its not been easy at all but she managed it - including living in 3 or 4 rented houses along the way and agonising over the childrens welfare every step of the way.

You'll need the support of friends and family every step if you are serious.

and mumsnet is the most wonderful place in the world for practical, emotional, sensible, and valuable support you could ever imagine.

help is out there - and on here.

my DW's history is on here in lots of places in the archive - i can't over-emphasize the level of support that is here. CAT us if you want some pointers to it all.

good luck!

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What I'm doing now is being overwhelmed by the support from mn'ers.

I shall do it. Tomorrow. I keep thinking about weekends away from my children, a poorer lifestyle, them not having a live-in dad, me not ever having anyone to love me,et al .. but it's got to be better than this

You lot are fab.

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I didn't do it. He left for work early, and has now busied himself in the garden. Why am I Sooo weak?

He also said '"I'll change, if you're prepared to pull your weight". FGS, what does he want me to DO? Spoke to my mum and sis at great lenght last night. My mum thinks I might be out of this mess by Christmas .. but I have had a glass of wine tonight and that worries me enormously. And there's some more left there.

if he's in anyway genuine that he wants to improve his relationship with you, then he should be willing to come to Relate with you. if not, then you know he's not serious. sounds suspiciously like he wants to pile all the blame on you tbh - sort of - if you are perfect (by my unrealistic control freak standards of perfect) then I will be nice to you - ie it's all your fault that I'm nasty to you.

about the wine; if you let him see you drunk, then you're playing into his hands - it's the ideal excuse for him to criticize you/make you feel bad about yourself.

What exactly does he mean by you "pulling your weight?"

Carla, when you say you were having a problem with drinking too much before Christmas, what sort of levels are we talking?

Do you mean that you were afraid you were hurtling towards alcoholism? Or was it a temporary "christmas binging" type thing which lots of people get for about 6 weeks a year by the look of it?

No, big time Caligula. I was already there. Just took a great shock to get me into gear.

MTS - I think you're so right. Whatever I do, it's just never enough. I think you have his measure, I just wonder if anyone else that matters will have, too. Else they'll think he's just an arse.

Because if that's the case, then what you have to remember about people who live with alcoholics (who don't themselves have a drink problem) is that they often use that person's problem drinking as a means of controlling the problem drinker.

The drinker knows his/ her drinking is a problem; s/he feels guilty about it; the co-dependent then uses that guilt to give him or herself a stronger negotiation lever against the drinker. All the problems in the relationship can be blamed on the drinker, because the drinking is the most visible and obvious problem.

Is there some of that going on with your DH and yourself? Because if there is, just remember that whether you've been drinking or not, your DH is still responsible for his behaviour and his responses to you.

Carla if he takes you to court, he'll lose. The house is in your name and he works. A judge will instruct him to buy his own place. You can divorce him on the grounds of his unreasonable behaviour, you should be able to get legal aid. And if you do change the locks while he's out, he can't do anything about it because it's your house.
Only do the things you are ready to do but I hope you sort something out for yourself and your kids.

And him dragging your dd out of bed is not the action of a good father. Not at all.

honey u have rights to u know, get ur self down to CAB today and see what options u have, the fact u had a drink problem is neither here nor there, u are helping ur self with that one. he will use each and every method to try and keep u trapped where u r thinking he can control u by usiong the girls/ur family as wepons against u - don't let him.

as for u family working not on the books - how many hours do they do? if it's under £79 P/W they probably wouldn't pay taxes so would only effect any WFTC's they did have, if they don't have any of that/benifits it would make no difference them going 'legit' as it were. anyhow thats' off the point the point is he's using them to control ur actions. don't let him. things will get worse b4 they get better.

And yes, my DH can be an arse, but not to the level ur H can be. an arse in the sence of 'mans time of the month' (no offesnse HD) is livable and arse with ur daughter just because 'he can' is not. he's made u feel worthless and insignificant. don't let it go on.

On the house front, I'd say don't leave it, see CAB just to make sure of ur rights, if u can change the locks then what i'd do is change them, leave his clothes outside so when he came home from work he'd get the message, I'd also take the phone's off the hooks and if u can have a family member with u just in case he gets nasty. He maybe a good dad, but that doens't make up for him being a lousey husband.

Carla, I've been thinking about you a lot. I don't think anything any of us say can make you take the decision to leave him. That's not to say we won't keep trying, but you are going to have to take that first, big, terrifying step on your own. I wish I had the words that would spur you into doing it - but that's bloody easy for me to say as it's not me that has to do it. I've never been in your situation but I can imagine in a lot of ways it's easier to stay put - your dh sounds such a manipulative, threatening person it's going to take a lot of courage for you to stand up to him.

Can you imagine yourself in five years' time? Still with him? Your children five years' older and even more aware of what is happening? You even more ground down? There is never going to be an 'easy' time to do what you need to do - but I think it will seem harder and harder the longer you leave it.

I don't know if I would have the strength and courage to do what you need to do - I really hope you have, for you and your children. You deserve better than this.

look/dig deep within hon and u'll find the stregnth and courage u need to make ur choices.

Don't really know what advice to give you, Carla, but your situation sounds like an absloute nightmare. Good luck to you in what ever decision you make (your husband needs to learn a hard lesson in life). xxxxxx try to ignore his threats about dropping you and your family in it - in the end he may not go thru with it.

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Um, how exactly is he going to take your mum and sis to court? If he's employing them and they aren't 'on the books' then he's breaking the law every bit as much - and almost certainly more - than they are! He won't be paying tax for them etc. It's an empty threat. And what is he planning to take you to court for? It's your house, you will have the kids (ignore any threats here - you are their mum, you WILL get the kids) and thus control contact and he will have to pay to maintain the kids. He has nothing to threaten you with! You hold all the cards. Please see a solicitor. You won't have to leave. Even if you just look up a solicitor in the Yellow Pages and make a phone call, it will be a start.

Oh, and divorce for unreasonable behaviour is pretty much anything you like. It isn't something you have to prove. Basically, if it's behaviour that you find unreasonable then it's enough. Snoring, nagging, working long hours...anything.