Can I just ask if this was "normal" in late 80's and can you please help me toughen up so I don't care?

[bohemianbint]

Don't want to sound like a whiner as I've sorted most of my issues out from my childhood (which was pretty shitty.) But recently a few things have come up and I need to deal with them so I can be the best I can be for my family.

We got engaged earlier this year - and got two cards from friends. No one will talk to us about our wedding (because we're not as conventional as they think we should be?) We're having to save and remortgage our house to pay for ours.

My (half) sister just got engaged. Her house is full of cards and she's planning a big princess wedding which will be paid for by my parents.

Which has brought up a few things, but specifically:

1. From about age 10 (brother) and 12 (me) we were locked out of the house from 3pm when school finished until half 5pm when my parents got in. All the time, all weathers. I got a key at 14 but my sister nicked it and I was not given another until I was about 16. Occasionally if it was really bad they would leave the garage unlocked and a drink inside.I guess my sister was either at nursery or my grandparents.

1. Parents took my sister away to Lapland on holiday at Christmas and left us behind.

Was this fairly standard 80's parenting? If it was anyone else I'd say it was bang out of order, but my parents managed to rationalise everything and what they did was "right" and "normal" without question.

I know it's not the biggest deal, and out of context these things were a long time ago and don't sound that bad. But I've just realised things have not actually changed and I need to find a way to stop coming off the phone feeling like shit because they are so indifferent to me and my kids. The last 12=18 months things have really starting being noticeable, but they cover themselves so you think its you going mad. Like they'll invite us to things that we can't really do because we have two tiny children, then act like we're being funny when we can't go. We invited them over at christmas and first they refused, then they came for 20 minutes, wouldn't have a drink, looked really uncomfortable and left. It just doesn't make you feel great, especially when it's obvious that they don't want to spend time with your kids either.

How can I deal with this and harden up?!

thank you, Notreallycutout. I think we'll just try to keep them at arms length and stop trying to invite them to things and get them involved. If they phone me I can't do much about it but I'm going to stop bothering for a while I think. Although they get most put out and aggro if I'm not contactable when they decide I should be. Ridiculous really.

Spam have you cut ties entirely?

Bohemian

Both 1 and 2 are well off base and were not normal parenting styles even for that time. I think your SM took a real dislike to you; you probably in some way reminded her of your own Mother (she stated as much). Not your problem at all, but hers.

Writing them a letter would probably not be beneficial either; they could see that as an attack on them and retailiate accordingly. BTW they have come out with all the usual sort of responses toxic parents come out with. These people you see do not say sorry ever or play by the rules governing normal healthy family behaviour at all.

Your Dad was a bystander and did nothing to prevent all this. He is just as culpable as your horrd stepmother.

Small wonder your Brother escaped to the other side of the world when he could.

If you have not already read "Toxic Parents" I suggest you do so because it will give you a starting point. Counselling can also be valuable but you need to choose and find a counsellor with care. Counsellors are like shoes though; you need to find someone that fits.

BB - your situation sounds very like another thread some weeks ago. Are you already married or just engaged?

echo the not normal comments and wanted to say that they sound positively poisonous

I would avoid them as much as possible, although by all means invite them to your wedding as to not do so would only give them justification for their nastiness. I suppose one good thing about them not having any financial input is you won't feel obliged to let them express an opinion on how your day should unfold.

psycho, I knew you had had issues as a child but didn't know the details. sounds fucking horrible and I can't believe anyone would treat a child like that

Not normal

I was born in 74 and until I was about 10 my mother SAH. Then when my parents separated she went to work as a teacher part time.

A key was kept under the mat. So when I got home I could get into the house. The only times I couldn't were a result of myself or my older brothers using the kep and then not putting it back.

My mother used to take me away for a weekend sometimes, without my brothers. For which they were grateful as they were 5 and 6 years older than me and had their own things to be getting on with,

I was born in 74 at 7 i was babysitting new born babies whilst everyone went to the pub!! i was left to play out regardless of weather etc in 84 my mum had a baby my step sister and i was the one who did the night feeds ....lots and lots of untoward things went on that i thought was 'normal' at 11 my mum became ill with ovarian cancer whilst she was in hospital a neighbour was paid to care for the half sister i was left to my own devices from finishing school til sometimes 10pm - with no dinner.

As my mother got worse and my nan came to look after her things improved - i was given the key to the shed and was left a pot noodle and occasionally 50p.

There was never any clean clothes hot food or anything.

My mother did pass away and i was sent to live with my stepfather (my nan was supposed to have me but left straight after the funeral) he expected me to sleep in his bed as there was no where else to sleep (i dont think it was sexual) i didnt want to and so for 3 years i slept on the settee in the living room having to wait for everyone to go to bed before i could get my blanket from behind the settee and sleep.

eventually we moved and i decided that i would look after me that meant working long shifts after school whilst still taing care of my little stepsister who it was assumed was my responsibility she was ill once with chickenpox and i had to take her to school with me so i could sit my gcse mock exam.

life was totally shit.

at 17 i left(was threw out) and went to live with a bouncer 17 years older than myself.

People do have shit childhoods you werent to blame for it you cant change it turn the page over and move on.

It sounds very much like my childhood tbh I dont think it is normal but it is more normal than you would imagine.

I have just learned to let go and forget, not easy but makes life more pleasant.

my stepfather was taking us to blackpool for the weekend we were all ready to go- his new gorlfriend turned up with her 24 year old daughter who didnt want to be left home alone- my bag was took out of the car and i was left alone instead.

I think twinset that it was only bb and her brother that were treated like this; the golden sister wasn't. If they had all been treated the same way then fair enough.

We used to be at home on our own from school finishing to mum getting home from work and my 14 yo brother left in charge. Not generally accepoted these days, but normal then and we were all in it together. We certainly were never locked out of the house.

Also, on holiday mum and dad would go to the pub for a few drinks and leave us in the car in the car park with a few bags of crisps and cokes. Again, not acceptable now, but probably very common in the 70s, and we thought this was the dogs bollocks at the time.

I am not saying in anyway it was right, I was treated evry differently from my siblings so understand the hurt. I was trying to say to the OP that sadly it is more common then we would like to think.

Oh, how I relate to this!

1. I used to have to walk myself and my brother home from school when I was 10 and he was 6. We had to wait in the garage/garden for 30-45 minutes until my mum came home from school herself (she was a teacher in another town). It was invariably cold and horrible. One time there was a blizzard and all the schools closed, and I thought it would be insane to go home and put us into the garage in conditions like that, so I took us over to a nearby school friend's house instead, where we would be warm and get some lunch and could wait for our parents, because I did not know whether they would be home then or at the end of the day as usual (no mobiles in those days). I told the school where we were going, but they forgot in all the chaos, and my mum turned up at our school an hour later and found that nobody knew where we were. She went ape but eventually worked out what had happened by ringing around my classmates' parents on the school phone, and came around on foot to get us (all the roads were closed by then but the snow had stopped just before I left the school). She was nice about it initially in front of the other mum, but then ranted at me for about an hour, hit me around the head (which she did a lot in those days) and then refused to speak to me for the rest of the day or hold my hand as I pathetically (in the sad sense) tried to make friends. At that point I suddenly decided I was obviously the parent and she was the kid, and lost trust in her from that point onwards. I absolutely knew that I had done the right thing in terms of using common sense to look after both of us properly in her absence (my little brother only being a very weedy 6, after all, and still in the infants), so I had no doubt at all that she had lost the plot, but it was still incredibly hurtful and nasty.

1. She used to take my brother skiing in the Alps every year, and leave me at home with my dad while they did this. I was then in the house on my own all day because dad was out at work and it was the school holidays. When I protested I was told she was not my social secretary and it was up to me to entertain myself. At about the same time other people's mothers and my teachers started to notice the emotional neglect and spoil me a bit, which went some way towards compensating for all this, but I still reckon it took me 20 years to get over it.

At first they sounded a bit barking, but then you mentioned there was physical abuse, so would class them as truly psycho.

Personally, I would cut ties with them. It would be different, perhaps, if they were truly sorry for their behavior, but seems they are trying to justify it... (because you remind your dad of your mom, he's 'right' to treat you the way he does...)

I have not spoken to my Dad foe almost a year, since I filed for bankruptcy and he said I was pathetic. That day I thought, this is the worst day of my life, I have lost my home, have pnd and have 3 kids. he was living in a mahoosive house with every rich trapping. I have never asked him for a penny, and he has not given any either. I decided that all I wanted was some kindness and support. He couldnt give that. Why wait and upset myself every time he lets me down again and again? Its like groundhog day.

My Mum is an alcoholic. I decided to not let her dictate my life. I let her come as far as I want to allow, and just say no when I am ready. I dont get upset at her abusive outbursts, mainly because I dont listen anymore. I expect nothing at all from her, I rely on her for nothing anymore and I am never disappointed.

I can wholeheartedly recommend to all, let them go. Dont wit for them to be kind if they never have. Let them go and concentrate on your own life, your own wonderful self and your own children.

I am at this thread, just utterly at what some of you have put up with as little children.

VirginB, that's awful. But sadly sounds so similar. I'm quite surprised how many people had similar experiences. jolly, that also sounds horrific, it's so funny that things that were acceptable such a short time ago are now, (thank god) frowned on.

I don't remember anyone ever hitting my sister, but me and my brother were quite often dragged downstairs by our hair and battered. I'd say it's really affected my parenting, but for the better, I think. I have never been able to leave my babies to cry or have them feel like they don't know where I am and it must all stem from the past.

Thing is, they will occasionally do things for us, or buy us things, and then you feel like they're great and we must be shit for having a problem with them. It's all so confusing.

Bohemian, how wierd, that is EXACTLY how mine behave, buying stuff for the kids or suddenly appearing out of the blue to help with a house move or something. But then they bugger off for six months and show no interest at all. They are on holiday in the Alps at the moment in a five star hotel, rather than seeing their grandchildren or helping DH with me (I am currently disabled because of a pg complication, which mum reckons is self-inflicted and therefore not worthy of attention). That's on top of the two cruises this year, and the two touring holidays.

I don't think they know how to be proper parents, actually, whereas I think I was more receptive and interested in children, and worked it out.

being locked out of the house and left behind while they take another sibling on holiday is not normal behaviour

i was a latchkey kid from the age of about 8, i would come home from school and let myself in and wait about in the warm and dry until either my mum or one of my siblings got back

your parents may well consider it normal to them, but it doesnt mean it was iyswim

i dont know what to suggest as to how to be able to deal with this, but at some point i think there comes a time where you have to cut people out to save yourself

it's got nothing to do with hardening up, it's to do with protecting your own feelings

WTF?? WTF ??? [huge capital letters] WTF?????????
Sorry, have just read your OP and skimmed over responses - so if my points are covered by someone else please ignore me, but -
You were left alone OUTSIDE your house??? No key???? The garage might have been left open for you??? They left you behind when they went on holiday???????

Who does that??????????????? To a child????? People leave their dogs in the yard... in all weather... which makes me - but their child???????????

If this was normal at any point, I must live in an alternate reality because that is NOT acceptable!!!!!

You don't need to harden up. You were seriously NEGLECTED. You need counselling, from a warm, sympathetic therapist, who can help you see that this is completely undeserved, and that they (your parents)were, and are, cruel ignorant fuckwits!!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!! This makes me so angry!!!! (That you were treated this way, not at you!)

I know that worse things happen to children every day but I am so bloody angry that anyone could treat a child this way and that women like you and psycho and others, as adults, are still left feeling scarred by this, and....

Sorry about the rant. I have trouble with stories of childhood abuse. I had a perfectly lovely childhood, with no more issues than anyone else, so I know I'm very lucky. Since DS was born in Feb 2008, I occasionally find myself overwhelmed by how much I love him and the mere thought that people neglect, mistreat, or abuse their children is incomprehensible to me.
[Lioness new mother emoticon]

So when I think of how much I love my little man, and I read posts about horrible parents and women who still suffer from childhood issues, I get really pissed off and want to help or fix it and obviously I can't so I rant and splutter and hand out most-un-MN-like ((((HUGS)))). Or supportive pats on the arm. (And I don't care who sees me. )

Apologies all around.

Thanks for the back-up dittany

It is amazing how recently neglect was normal. I have to say, I was a typical 70s latchkey kid, came home from school, key under the mat (did everyone have a key under the doormat? Why wasn't the burglary rate sky high? ) but a warm house to go to, albeit often terrifyingly alone. But to be locked out in all weathers? On my estate, where people were working poor, this would have been considered shocking, I think.
They won't ever admit they were wrong, but they were. Thank God we are all better parents than our rubbish parents, eh? It is sad, and you have the right to be sad for your little self, and you also have the right to say, 'they were wrong, and I am better, and I won't let their cruelty and stupidity ruin the rest of my lovely life.'
There is a reason, you know, why fairy stories so often feature wicked stepmothers and children of the first family being hurt and neglected while the kids of the stepmother get treated like little kings and queens. It's because it happens. It is psychologically true. And I am a stepmother myself, before the flamers get started!

Jacksmama, just because they were crap doesn't mean we have to be permanently damaged. We just see them as crap.

I have actually confronted my mother about this in a very calm and considered way and she said:

1. I was cold and unaffectionate as a baby (!) so it's largely attributable to that. Apparently I used to try to wriggle off her lap a lot when she tried to hug me.

1. I was very stubborn as a child so she had a lot to deal with. I was jealous of my brother and used to play up.

1. If she had her time again she wouldn't bother having kids (that last said in front of one of my friends).

This all sounds to me like the stuff of PND and egocentrism writ large, because she is basically blaming a very little person for things the little person couldn't possibly be responsible for. It's so silly and childish on many levels that I can't even be bothered to think about it a lot of the time any more. I just feel sad for the poor little sensible and loyal me of times past that had to endure this very middle class neglect. I even used to buy her bunches of flowers out of my pocket money to try to get on her good side. I mean!

If that little me was here now I would give me a cuddle and remind me mum was not up to much, on balance. I have a much better relationship with my own kids and they are a lot happier on balance as a result. That's the main thing.