What is a toxic partner

[idontlikecricket]

Was reading about this, think my DP may show signs (not excessively bad but) was interested to know.

He:

Thinks life has let him down

Very niggly about his childhood, thinks he was held back

Manages to turn things around so that if I'm upset and telling him how I feel, he makes me feel bad

I'm always the one trying to support him and make him feel better, even if I suffer

I'm always confused when I have conversations with him

Able to do whatever he wants because he feels nobody can tell him what to do

Sometimes very morose at home because he thinks we have a terrible marriage

But lovely when out with other people

Almost like he is emotionally immature

Am I on the right track?

Don't get me wrong I don't necessarily want to run in the wrong direction, I want to be able to deal with it myself in order that I feel better

does he do this?

How does he react if you don't try to manage his moods ie treat him like a sulky toddler and get on with whatever you are doing? If he starts behaving sensible or even apologises for sulking, he's fine: if he sulks more, or becomes nasty (insulting or even agressive) then he's toxic.

Sulky, miserable, angry, verbally abusive, unable to converse like an adult, throws tantrums, walks out, controlling and bad tempered... but nice to everyone else?
Yeah i own that model of boyfriend as well.
I ignore it and praise the 'good behaviour' once in a while WHEN the moon is blue and it actually happens

Sometimes they are female.

Lol
Agreed
But i just checked and mine is deffo a male of the species

Just about

I always say to mine that his childhood, although bad, could be made into his advantage.. mine was bad too, sexual abuse and stuff, but i realised i could not be a victim all my life and let these experiences carry on hurting and affecting me, ok, its not that easy, i still have my 'bad' days when i remember some of the stuff, but you know, i wouldn't change it for anything, because it has made me the person i am today, and i kinda sorta like the person i am.. maybe , for example, point out to him something good he does and say 'You are such a good dad (example) i believe you are all the better considering you didn't have a positive role model yourself'
Or praise the way he does something else 'I'm glad you reacted that way to so and so being like such and such, a... \lesser\ whatever word you wanna use here... would have reacted in such n such a way (in a bad way)

This makes my bloke like a dog with two tails, just a bit of praise, like a kid.. you have to be really patient to be like this though i find, and very perceptive cos (and i am not being nasty here) sometimes the nice things they do are well hard to spot.. omg i sound like a right nitpicker..i'm not, i never ever use any negatives, try to avoid arguments or finger pointing because that destroys all the hard work you do praising them up.
Wish you all the best xx

Have just read all this and am shocked to see that I'm a 'gaslighter'

I had never heard of it before. My partner shows signs of it, too. What happens when 2 people are 'gaslighters' and how can I stop being so godawful?

My dp alway wants to be praised and never critized. Even mild "would you mind doing it this way, not this way" gets him to sulk. He has extreme mood swings and screams at me for really small stuff.

I have extreme mood swings, too and have lately started to get so down nothing excites me, I could cry every day and feel unwell and chained. I am the one making insulting comments about dp and then saying 'twas a joke. I feel horrible now having read what it's all about.

How can I change myself? How can I change our (clearly) toxic relationship? I love my dp and I don't want to break-up.

OP - you have just described my dad - to the letter!

ps he was a toxic father as well as a toxic husband!

Gettingagrip: I am not entirely comfortable with recommending that last link of yours, as the site does seem a bit 'whiny-buckethead-blaming-everyone-else'.

solidgoldstuffingballs - i just had a look at the link and thought exactly the same.

That perception one is a bit weird, as it is also the way that people are often told to manage arguments, so on the one hand we are told to say things like "when I said x you seemed to feel y, but I didn't mean to hurt your feelings" as an acceptable way of broaching difficult situations (showing empathy), but this is apparently also emotional abuse.

I think that if you have a partner who consistently makes you feel bad you should think about finding a new partner. It may not be their fault that the world appears always half empty, and they probably are not intentionally bringing you down, but living with someone who is consistently negative is incredibly wearing.

mmmn yes see what you mean. I will get it removed. I was trying to find a site with an actual example of gaslighting. Sorry.

My dh (dickhead) is the same.

Sorry about that link, was crap...its gone now...what I was trying to say was ...

The test of a person having empathy, and being genuine in their apology is if you do say to them 'you did x and it made me feel y' and they try their best to change whatever it was that made you feel y then they have empathy.

If they carry on doing x, and indeed do x even more because they now know that it upsets you, then you have a problem.

And if they then tell you that because you feel y, then you are over-reacting, or imagining things, then you also have a problem.

The gaslighting thing is insane-making and does in the end destroy your whole self. It's a method of making you doubt your memories and thoughts, so that you end up not knowing the reality of anything you have experienced.

HTH xxx

that gaslighting stuff describes my mother perfectly.

I have just read the gaslighting thing and thought it was quite good.... I think It is similar to definition of narcissism, which is closely related to Phycopaths and child abusers....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

I know I just dated one on the internet, he turned out to be very interested in my son.

@ poops:

But the question still remains. If you're experiencing it, how do you get out of it without giving up your relationship?

Narcissists do employ gaslighting as a technique of control. That's not to say all gaslighters are narcissists of course.

There are different types of narcissists of course. the literature says that there are malignant and benign Ns, but in my unfortunately large experience of these freaks, I have never actually come across a N who is always benign. They are all malignant sometimes!

I suppose the test of your ability to stay with a gaslighter is ...do they do anything else which is unacceptable and makes you feel rubbish? If they don't, and you can cope with the gaslighting, then perhaps there is a future for you and your mental health with this person.

I would never presume to tell anyone else what to do with their lives, but if someone who is suppose to love and cherish you is making you feel bad about yourself then that can't be right surely?

I do still have a relationship with my family Ns, who all gaslight. I just ignore it now. But that's easy to say!!!!

Yes>>> hmmm difficult I suppose you would have to totally work on yourself and make sure your self esteem is high, not get into the blame game, ignore the bad praise the good. If they want to sulk thats up to them.

And defo get into stuff you enjoy doing, if they mess up and blame you, instead of justifying yourself, just calmly say well its up to you how you want to think but I will not accept responisbility for your actions. and I do not accept what your saying. walk out of the room come back in and just act normally.
If they carry on with it i think you have a big problem, he may just think Im being a dick and apologise!!!

Also i would like to know why he thinks the world has let him down (victim) and yet he wont be told what to do (not a victim)

Well if he says 'I'm a dick and I am sorry' and then follows this up with a change in behaviour then that's a good sign.

The victim/ not a victim thing is explained by how a N is made.

They are products of their childhoods. Usually their reality is so dreadful that they have to invent another reality in order to survive. Most of the literature seems to agree that these people are stuck at around 2-6 years of age. Something happens and their neurones grow at that age in a way that protects them from their (bad) reality.

The trouble is that when they then reach adulthood, they cannot let go of this invented reality. They are actually a complete mess inside and lack any self knowledge or awareness of their real self. If they admit that they are wrong, or at fault then the edifice of their invented reality will collapse, and this cannot be allowed to happen.

If you know someone who acts as thought they are two years old, eg has tantrums to get their own way, for example, or has always to be right, then they may be an N.

These people have often been totally idealised as children (a spoilt child), never had a parent say no...always told they are wonderful and better than anyone else. They could also have been devalued and told they are worthless. Or both!

There are many ways to make an N.

We all have to have an ego and are all narcissists to a certain extent. This is healthy. The problem comes when these people remain stuck at two years old, but with the manipulative abilities of an adult.

Sorry a bit garbled!

Mine doesn't change his behaviour unless you end up losing your rag and shouting at him .. i hate this.. but if i sit down and try to explain my feelings he walks out or turns nasty.
I have to tell him otherwise i get frustrated and then when we DO have an argument it all comes out in one angry outburst which is unfair on him.. i like to try and deal with issues calmly and as they arise, not months later at an opportune moment (like during a row) but he seems to make this impossible, so i end up doing what i don't want to do and blurting it all out..queue days of silent treatment (which i don't enjoy at all ) and then a change in behaviour on his part.. i'm not saying i'm perfect but i do think when i'm talking to him before i open my mouth.. "Is that/could it be perceived as hurtful" ect,
whereas he doesn't seem to give a toss.
Why do some people seem to 'reward' for want of a better word, you being horrible to them? Ie..my bloke changing his behaviour after a bad incident (the argument) .. it makes me feel like i am abusing him. anyone else feel like this?

Well BS77, perhaps you could think about this the other way around.

If someone does something that upsets you, and there are then no consequences for them as a result of this behaviour, then why should they stop? If they like the behaviour, or it gets them their desired result, and nothing happens to them to stop them...they are not going to stop.

If the consequences are worse than the reward for them, then they may think about changing. For example, a man who is violent to his wife and children may think twice before kicking off to some large bloke in a pub, for obvious reasons.

Your partner doesn't think that he needs to change until you get so frustrated that you blow up at him. Then he feels the consequences of his behaviour. He may change for a while, or he may change for ever.

This brings us back to the making of an N, if a child does something that is not desirable, the parent has to show the child that there are consequences to that action. The best learning experiences are those that show you the consequences that come about from your own behaviour. eg you can tell a child until you are blue in the face that if they touch something hot it will hurt, but until they actually find this out for themselves, their behaviour may not change. The problem for Ns is that the messages they receive from their parents/carers are completely mixed up, and the consequences of behaviours can be totally over the top, or none existent. They are certainly not consistent.

Some research has suggested that actual neural damage occurs in these people when they are children, and that this can never be righted. Certainly in my experience, of my father in particular, I would agree with this

The trouble is that most people learn that actions have consequences as children. But people who have no empathy for others, just carry on regardless, as the consequences of them not thinking before they speak, and so on, are not bad enough to make them stop.

He is happy, and if you are not then tough luck. Why should he change, until he absolutely has to?

It's like training animals...they do one thing, they get a reward, they do another, they are ignored. This trains the good behaviour. But who wants to do this with a grown adult? Particularly one who is supposed to be your partner. This is how you teach toddlers, not grown men and women!

Its a very complex area, and is only really becoming more understood recently.

These people have always existed however, but only you can decide if you can live the rest of your life like this or not.